West midlands bus franchising

[Wumpty]

For clarity - I am not simply trying to push the price up. 

I intend to work until the day I die.  I turn 49 this month.  I am aiming to work/live until I am 100.  Therefore I have 51 years of work left. 

The depot at Tividale is central to everything I want to do.  Therefore no amount of money - will fill the gap of 51 years of work.


Simon

I, for one Simon, never thought that. Your business has been built up steadily and strategically with a network of routes across the UK pivotal to the areas they serve.

I'm sure that WMCA (and I dare say others) would see Tividale as strategically advantageous to franchising, though it's business as usual for you, and many other bus companies until we see where this leads.

[jasmine]

For clarity - I am not simply trying to push the price up. 

I intend to work until the day I die.  I turn 49 this month.  I am aiming to work/live until I am 100.  Therefore I have 51 years of work left. 

The depot at Tividale is central to everything I want to do.  Therefore no amount of money - will fill the gap of 51 years of work.


Simon

You're a stand up guy, Simon

[Stu]

2026 responses so far to this consultation.

South Yorkshire's similar consultation garnered over 7800 responses.

https://www.route-one.net/bus/south-yorkshire-confirms-move-to-bus-franchising/

Population of WMCA area: "2.9 million"

Population of SYMCA area: "1.4 million"

That's got to be pretty disappointing.

[Ingleboro261F]

2026 responses so far to this consultation.

South Yorkshire's similar consultation garnered over 7800 responses.

https://www.route-one.net/bus/south-yorkshire-confirms-move-to-bus-franchising/

Population of WMCA area: "2.9 million"

Population of SYMCA area: "1.4 million"

That's got to be pretty disappointing.

Proof that nobody cares at all what happens to the bus network if a mere 0.5% of the population even bothered to answer.

[suavegarv]

Considering that the mayor reckons franchising could work with fewer buses than there is in service now,is their a rough estimate on how many buses are needed for the Bee Network compared to before its introduction?

[metrocity]

Proof that nobody cares at all what happens to the bus network if a mere 0.5% of the population even bothered to answer.

These consultations are more about box-ticking than actually shaping decisions. When only 0.5% of the population responds, it's not necessarily apathy – it's often that people sense the outcome is already decided, so why bother? If communities genuinely believed their input would lead to change, you'd see far higher engagement.

[Stu]

These consultations are more about box-ticking than actually shaping decisions. When only 0.5% of the population responds, it's not necessarily apathy – it's often that people sense the outcome is already decided, so why bother? If communities genuinely believed their input would lead to change, you'd see far higher engagement.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many people take part, WMCA just need a majority of the responses to be positive then they can proceed with their plans, 'democratically decided' and all that.

[ayoungbusman]

Proof that nobody cares at all what happens to the bus network if a mere 0.5% of the population even bothered to answer.

I think it's rather more nuanced than that, to be honest. The fact that things such as the bin strike in Birmingham for example, are happening at the same time as this consultation have probably meant that people aren't as interested in the buses as opposed to the mountains of rubbish sprouting all over Birmingham. Additionally, the length of the documents made available to the public are probably too large for your average person on the street to want to read and so, they've shied away from having an opinion. Couple that with the fact that the new Metro mayor doesn't seem to be pushing for views on this via local media, radio phone-ins etc and I think you may find most people don't even know there's a consultation on. Personally, I've had this when I've worked in operators where face to face consultations are scheduled at 14:00 on a Tuesday, so you get sparse attendance and subsequent feedback due to people being at work, on the way to start the school run or concessionary passengers leaving the network before schools throw out, amongst other reasons.

It may also be for the fact and it may be an unpopular opinion, that for an urban conurbation the size of the West Midlands, most bus passengers have access to reasonable services, with decent spans of operation most days of the week and with the exception of things such as fares, Sunday provision and punctuality etc, are happy or at least satisfied with what they've got. That's not to say there's not room for improvement but for £4.80, you can purchase an NBus ticket and in theory travel from Pattingham near Wolverhampton to Coventry on as many buses as you'd want/need to use across multiple operators. I've travelled in Yorkshire towns where £6 is more the norm for a day ticket and even then, you can't travel outside of city limits, yet alone across county lines as in the West Midlands. People always moan when services get cut and the West Midlands has seen that as has everywhere else but most of the services cut have either been withdrawals of commercial duplicate routes (see Claribels 55 as an example), withdrawals of unsustainable tendered provision (such as the 93 in Birmingham) or the collapse of operators altogether (remember AM-PM travel, GRS Travel and others of the same ilk).

The way some of the narrative on franchising is spouted, you'd think NXWM and Diamond are the two biggest robber barons out there. However, unlike areas such as West Yorkshire, where Arriva looks to be running the clock, the operators of the West Midlands for the most part, provide in my opinion a reasonable level of service over a rather large area, with signs of investment in fleet, trying to solve the driver shortage and publicity and that may explain why the public response to the consultation is so lackadaisical. 

As a depot manager once said to me, "Passengers never praise us when a service is 98% on time, most of the year. It's the 2% when it goes wrong, sometimes outside of our control, such as roadworks, when people bang on to their MP's and Councillors about the old days and Midland Red making sure everything was punctual through their rose tinted spectacles."

[2206]

Even Sunday provision is fairly good I think if you look at the corridors out of Central Birmingham they have a frequent service, the 94/95 & 61/63 run at every 10 minutes combined 50/74 at every 8, 60 every 12.

Considering Sundays are also probably quieter generally as people are off.

[ellspurs]

The day ticket fare for the West Midlands to get from Chelmsley Wood to Bedworth is still cheaper than a return ticket I used to pay from Bedworth to Nuneaton on Stagecoach in 2002 (£5.50).

[suavegarv]

According to a report in Route One magazine, the McGill's group are questioning the viability of franchising plans in Strathclyde.  

They say that transport revenue budget papers [color=var(--hyperlink-color,inherit)]issued by the Greater Manchester Combined Authority[/color] (GMCA) in February shows a projected net cost of the franchised bus network there during FY2025/26 of £226 million.

[Justin Tyme]

It may also be for the fact and it may be an unpopular opinion, that for an urban conurbation the size of the West Midlands, most bus passengers have access to reasonable services, with decent spans of operation most days of the week and with the exception of things such as fares, Sunday provision and punctuality etc, are happy or at least satisfied with what they've got. 

I agree with you.  The West Midlands does have a reasonably good spread of services, seven days a week, with very reasonably priced nBus tickets.  Punctuality and journey times are often not brilliant, but that is mainly due to general traffic congestion which - maybe - is preceived by the general public (as well as us forum readers) to be outside operators' control.

I reckon another factor may be that, unlike in some other PTE/CA areas, there is no general feeling that a major operator in the conurbation has provided a poor service and thereby made themselves a target for politicians.

The main case for franchising in the West Midlands is the principle that there should be public control, and that in itself is not going to set the world alight.

[ayoungbusman]

The main case for franchising in the West Midlands is the principle that there should be public control, and that in itself is not going to set the world alight.

I'd bet my house that if you stopped anyone in the street and asked out of the following three (Buses, Electricity and Water), which should come back into public control the soonest, buses would be the last of the three, most of the time. 

I also think that failures such as opening stations on the Camp Hill Line on time, the delays to rebuilding Dudley Bus Station into a modern interchange and getting the Metro to Dudley and beyond, amongst other public transport capital schemes, means that people probably are inclined to believe that public control isn't the way forward and have either not left their opinion on the consultation at all or have used alternate means to disapprove (via local councillors, letters to TfWM etc), which may not get factored into the results at all.