Cross Country

[markcf83]

I couldn't agree more.  Hopefully, the creation of Great British Railways will result in a more co-ordinated approach when ordering new trains.  A new fleet of bi-mode units with at least 7 coaches for Cross Country services on the Edinburgh/Newcastle to Plymouth/Reading and Manchester to Bristol/Bournemouth services would be beneficial all round.  As well as providing the capacity needed on these services, they would also operate in electric mode over large parts of the routes (Edinburgh–York/Doncaster and Manchester-Birmingham/Coventry).  In addition, it would allow the Voyagers to be cascaded to increase capacity on other routes such as Cardiff to Nottingham, Birmingham to Stansted, Cardiff to Portsmouth etc.

The Cardiff to Portsmouth service isn't run by them, but by Great Western. The trains should be the equivalent of a 125, namely two first class coaches and the rest standard class. 

[Tony]

The 7 car 222s from EMT would be good for Cross Country when they are released next year

[Roy]

The Cardiff to Portsmouth service isn't run by them, but by Great Western. The trains should be the equivalent of a 125, namely two first class coaches and the rest standard class.

I didn't say it did.  Cardiff to Portsmouth is an example of a long distance service that suffers from overcrowding and which would benefit from larger trains such as cascaded Voyagers.

The 7 car 222s from EMT would be good for Cross Country when they are released next year

I agree that these would help but it would still mean diesel trains running under the wires for long distances.

[twbc99]

I couldn't agree more.  Hopefully, the creation of Great British Railways will result in a more co-ordinated approach when ordering new trains.  A new fleet of bi-mode units with at least 7 coaches for Cross Country services on the Edinburgh/Newcastle to Plymouth/Reading and Manchester to Bristol/Bournemouth services would be beneficial all round.  As well as providing the capacity needed on these services, they would also operate in electric mode over large parts of the routes (Edinburgh–York/Doncaster and Manchester-Birmingham/Coventry).  In addition, it would allow the Voyagers to be cascaded to increase capacity on other routes such as Cardiff to Nottingham, Birmingham to Stansted, Cardiff to Portsmouth etc.

Voyagers on the 170 routes in general are not the best idea. They can't run at the higher speeds between Leicester and Stansted and there is a platforming issue as well at Stansted being 4/5 cars. 220's have run on the Cardiff - Nottingham's before but I don't think the capacity is really any different to a 3 car 170.

The 7 car 222s from EMT would be good for Cross Country when they are released next year

Well there is only 4 of them. I think they will most likely head to Scotland to replace the HST's.

[Tony]

Voyagers on the 170 routes in general are not the best idea. They can't run at the higher speeds between Leicester and Stansted and there is a platforming issue as well at Stansted being 4/5 cars. 220's have run on the Cardiff - Nottingham's before but I don't think the capacity is really any different to a 3 car 170.
Well there is only 4 of them. I think they will most likely head to Scotland to replace the HST's.

I have used the Aberdeen-Penzance service 3 times in October south from Sheffield (you'll notice a lot of photos from that part of the country going on the main site at the moment). Five car voyager is totally unsuitable for that service. I have had to stand all three times along with many others. On the 24th Many people were left on Sheffield platform unable to board at all. A 7 car could probably just about cope on that run.

[Stu]

I have used the Aberdeen-Penzance service 3 times in October south from Sheffield (you'll notice a lot of photos from that part of the country going on the main site at the moment). Five car voyager is totally unsuitable for that service. I have had to stand all three times along with many others. On the 24th Many people were left on Sheffield platform unable to board at all. A 7 car could probably just about cope on that run.

At the beginning of September, I travelled down to Cornwall to visit my brother and his family.

The CrossCountry service I used from New Street to Plymouth was only 4 cars. While I was able to get my reserved seat allocation, the train did get very full, and there were some arguments amongst passengers about seat reservations, mainly because two earlier trains had been cancelled, and some passengers didn't realise that their reservations were no longer valid on this service, insisting that the train was 'double-booked'.

The train got very busy between Cheltenham and Bristol, but luckily this large group of travellers got off at Newton Abbott.

The return journey from Plymouth was also only 4 cars. It wasn't so bad at first, but got very overcrowded after Exeter, with passengers and luggage in the aisles all the way to Bristol.

While I saved money by buying split tickets, it was almost impossible to get myself into my 'reserved' seat at different points in the journey.

For the prices that CrossCountry charge, they could at least ensure there is enough space to accommodate passengers who've bought tickets in advance. And maybe the whole 'seat reservation' system needs to be reviewed.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

At the beginning of September, I travelled down to Cornwall to visit my brother and his family.

The CrossCountry service I used from New Street to Plymouth was only 4 cars. While I was able to get my reserved seat allocation, the train did get very full, and there were some arguments amongst passengers about seat reservations, mainly because two earlier trains had been cancelled, and some passengers didn't realise that their reservations were no longer valid on this service, insisting that the train was 'double-booked'.

The train got very busy between Cheltenham and Bristol, but luckily this large group of travellers got off at Newton Abbott.

The return journey from Plymouth was also only 4 cars. It wasn't so bad at first, but got very overcrowded after Exeter, with passengers and luggage in the aisles all the way to Bristol.

While I saved money by buying split tickets, it was almost impossible to get myself into my 'reserved' seat at different points in the journey.

For the prices that CrossCountry charge, they could at least ensure there is enough space to accommodate passengers who've bought tickets in advance. And maybe the whole 'seat reservation' system needs to be reviewed.

My Dad had a Carry Sized Roller Case and had to stand from Wolves to Stockport both ways, he needed to do work on the way back and couldn't. He did say he reckons a lot of the passengers were coming from Manchester Airport as they had Airline Tags on there suitcases 

[Stu]

Due to short-notice engineering works taking place tomorrow, no XC services will call at Bristol Parkway from 8pm this evening.

It looks like XC trains heading to/from the south-west will be diverting via Gloucester and Newport, from what I saw on RealTime Trains.

[Stu]

My Dad had a Carry Sized Roller Case and had to stand from Wolves to Stockport both ways, he needed to do work on the way back and couldn't. He did say he reckons a lot of the passengers were coming from Manchester Airport as they had Airline Tags on there suitcases

I've been scouting social media, and it seems these are not isolated incidents, there have been numerous complaints about 'dangerous levels of overcrowding' on several CrossCountry services.

It seems to me the problem is where XC cancel journeys, which means all the passengers intending to use that service get forced on to the next one. What doesn't get taken into consideration is if the next journey is near 'fully-booked' where passengers have had to reserve seats, then that train is going to be twice as busy. And XC only provide one coach now without reservations.

[Roy]

In mid July, I travelled back from Newcastle to New Street on a Sunday morning on board an 8-car unit.  I deliberately used the rear coach L which wasn't more than half full throughout the journey.  However, from Leeds onwards, the Train Manager was asking passengers to move to the rear of the train where seats were available.  At New Street, this service is split in platform 11 with the front four coaches forming the 1312 to Plymouth and the rear four coaches the 1342 to Bristol Temple Meads.  As my next journey was to Wolverhampton on the 1330 from platform 10, I remained on the platform.  The 1312 service did not depart until 1320 as station staff tried to shoe horn passengers onto the train which left with three coaches dangerously full and the fourth (1^st Class) almost empty.
 
At the beginning of September, I was in Devon.  On the Saturday afternoon, I travelled from Newton Abbot to Plymouth on board a 4-car Class 220.  It was dangerously full on arrival at Newton Abbot and, although a lot of people got off to travel to Torbay, it was still full and standing to Plymouth.  The following morning, I caught a Paignton to Manchester Class 220 from Newton Abbot to Dawlish.  This train was dangerously overcrowded throughout both the seating and the vestibule areas and was held at Newton Abbot for over five minutes while station staff attempted to get people on board.  When I arrived at Dawlish, the number attempting to board far exceeded the number who alighted.
 
Not only are higher capacity trains needed but the percentage of first class seats needs to be reduced as well (for instance, a 7 coach train should only have 1 or 1½ first class coaches).

[Tony]

0703 to Bournemouth this morning 4 car full and standing 

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

Could CrossCountry order some Class 800's or any other Bimode Trains this could displace the Turbostars If they order 7 or 9 car trains to replace Voyager or Super Voyager trains so these Bimode's could run on Wires on the ECML then Diesel or Wires from Manchester to Coventry then Diesel and thus allow the 220's/221's to replace the 170's on those services and If they get 222's cus it's believed the two new open track operators on the WCML Wrexham and Shropshire and the other one want the 222's for there services plus apparently Grand Central might want some as well. If they do however receive 222's this could further boost capacity by providing more frequency on routes like Bournemouth to Manchester Or Reading/Bristol to Newcastle/Manchester or Birmingham to Leeds 

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

New CrossCountry Service between Edinburgh and Cardiff to Start December 16th/18th it split at Gloucester with one Voyager going to Cardiff and the other Plymouth will run one Train in each direction. So the Birmingham Cardiff route has one additional Train and it will be a Voyager/Super Voyager. CrossCountry are at least doubling up the Train between Edinburgh and Gloucester so the ECML Route and MM stations to Brum shouldn't be as crowded being 8/9/10 Car services.

[Roy]

New CrossCountry Service between Edinburgh and Cardiff to Start December 16th/18th it split at Gloucester with one Voyager going to Cardiff and the other Plymouth will run one Train in each direction. So the Birmingham Cardiff route has one additional Train and it will be a Voyager/Super Voyager. CrossCountry are at least doubling up the Train between Edinburgh and Gloucester so the ECML Route and MM stations to Brum shouldn't be as crowded being 8/9/10 Car services.

Unfortunately, that's not true.  The 1307 service from Edinburgh currently runs as an 8-car train from Edinburgh to Gloucester where it splits, with 4 cars continuing to Plymouth and the other 4 cars returning ecs to Central Rivers.  From December, that 4 car unit will continue in service to Cardiff Central where it will stable overnight.  This replaces the 1707 Nottingham to Cardiff Class 170 service which will be truncated to terminate at Gloucester with the unit running ecs back to Birmingham New Street.

The following morning, this 4-car unit will form the 0945 departure from Cardiff Central replacing the current 0945 Cardiff Central to Nottingham Class 170 service which will start at New Street at 1149.  It arrives at New Street at 1145 and the 0628 Penzance to Edinburgh service will attach to the back of it when it arrives at 1156, thus forming an 8-car service north of Birmingham.  However, at present, the 0628 service leaves Penzance as a 4-car unit but is attached to another 4-car unit at Plymouth making an 8-car train from Plymouth to Edinburgh.  This means that the station calls from Plymouth to Bristol Parkway will be made by a 4-car train rather than an 8-car train.

[markcf83]

Could CrossCountry order some Class 800's or any other Bimode Trains this could displace the Turbostars If they order 7 or 9 car trains to replace Voyager or Super Voyager trains so these Bimode's could run on Wires on the ECML then Diesel or Wires from Manchester to Coventry then Diesel and thus allow the 220's/221's to replace the 170's on those services and If they get 222's cus it's believed the two new open track operators on the WCML Wrexham and Shropshire and the other one want the 222's for there services plus apparently Grand Central might want some as well. If they do however receive 222's this could further boost capacity by providing more frequency on routes like Bournemouth to Manchester Or Reading/Bristol to Newcastle/Manchester or Birmingham to Leeds

I suspect the next people to run it will be advised to run longer trains-much longer trains.