Carolean Coaches, Willenhall

[Stu]

I think that's the last of the worries, a bus being used is better than nothing at all. I don't think any passengers are bothered as long as the service is provided and turned up.

As I said in my subsequent reply, if TfWM have been notified of the situation, then there shouldn't be any issue, as they would also agree that 'any vehicle' is better than none.

But a contract is legally binding - the contract stipulates use of Euro6 vehicles, therefore Carolean are in breach of this contract, if TfWM haven't been made aware and applied an exemption for this case.

I'm not trying to get Carolean into trouble, or suggesting that they are doing anything wrong, and I hope they've done the right thing and got clearance from TfWM as a 'short-term solution'.

TfWM might probably desire that if Carolean are having issues with their fleet, they may prefer them to buy or lease more suitable newer vehicles.

[Marge559]

I hope they've notified TfWM about this, as the contract specifies Euro6 vehicles! As far as I am aware, these Urbans were never upgraded so are still Euro3.

Every bus in the TfWM area should be Euro 6, but that hasn't stopped NXWM withdrawing Euro 6 buses and keeping Euro 3 on the road.

[MW]

If TfWM have been notified and they're okay with this, then I'm sure there won't be any problems.

I think you should be a bit more supportive to a very small operator. Clearly they've put the effort in to keep the service running whilst they are experiencing issues with their usually complaint fleet.

As already mentioned, I'm sure TfWM would rather the bus running than nothing at all!

From a taxpayer point of view, you're absolutely right - but, this is the kind of attitude that has forced SMEs out of this sector.

I'm sure they'll be back to full compliance swiftly.

[Stu]

Every bus in the TfWM area should be Euro 6, but that hasn't stopped NXWM withdrawing Euro 6 buses and keeping Euro 3 on the road.

NXWM haven't been withdrawing Euro6 vehicles, apart from those badly damaged in fires or RTAs.

Both NX and Diamond had to seek permission from TfWM to continue to use non-compliant vehicles until they were able to be replaced.

[Stu]

I think you should be a bit more supportive to a very small operator. Clearly they've put the effort in to keep the service running whilst they are experiencing issues with their usually complaint fleet.

As already mentioned, I'm sure TfWM would rather the bus running than nothing at all!

From a taxpayer point of view, you're absolutely right - but, this is the kind of attitude that has forced SMEs out of this sector.

I'm sure they'll be back to full compliance swiftly.

I am being supportive, I'm not sure if people keep misinterpreting what I'm posting. Once again, if Carolean have notified TfWM of the situation, and TfWM have accepted this short-term solution, then there is no issue.

What I wouldn't want to see is Carolean using non-compliant vehicle(s) without TfWM's consent, which could jeopardise this and any other future contracts that they wish to bid on.

[Marge559]

NXWM haven't been withdrawing Euro6 vehicles, apart from those badly damaged in fires or RTAs.

No, just the Euro 6 B7RLEs in the training fleet, the Omnilinks at Pensnett, the Omnicities, 4800-4829, and the Euro 6 Tridents that have been sold off through Birmingham Busworks! For comparison, how many Euro 6 buses have Carolean withdrawn?

[Stu]

No, just the Euro 6 B7RLEs in the training fleet, the Omnilinks at Pensnett, the Omnicities, 4800-4829, and the Euro 6 Tridents that have been sold off through Birmingham Busworks! For comparison, how many Euro 6 buses have Carolean withdrawn?

4800-4829 were returned on expiry of their lease.

The OmniCities and Tridents were 'end-of-life'.

How many buses do NX have compared to Carolean?

[Westy]

Bet that vehicle wasn't expected to operate the 19 ever again?

(I guess it would've done in TWM/NX days at some point?)

[Straightlines]

A lot of fuss about a loan to make service by one of the smallest operators in the West Midlands. Whatever next, there will be a special report in Birmingham Live! 

[Jack]

4800-4829 were returned on expiry of their lease.

The OmniCities and Tridents were 'end-of-life'.

How many buses do NX have compared to Carolean?

4493, 4598, 4607 etc were Euro 6 and have been withdrawn. So yes they've withdrew Euro 6 vehicles that haven't been RTA'd or fire damaged like you have said.


The Omnicities weren't end of life either, hence why they are being sold on! As we're quite a few of the Euro 6 vehicles that have been withdrawn the last few months.

NX keeping Euro 3 vehicles but withdrawing Euro 6 that are going to new operators begs belief. I thought all Euro 3 vehicles should've gone by September. Yet it's an issue for a small company to use a Euro 3 when they are short.

Mileage is running and passengers are being picked up, that's the main thing and the priority. Loads of people aren't bothered what's Euro rating a vehicle is!

[Westy]

Chaserider's had similar issues in the past, havent they, so the situation isnt new.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

4493, 4598, 4607 etc were Euro 6 and have been withdrawn. So yes they've withdrew Euro 6 vehicles that haven't been RTA'd or fire damaged like you have said.


The Omnicities weren't end of life either, hence why they are being sold on! As we're quite a few of the Euro 6 vehicles that have been withdrawn the last few months.

NX keeping Euro 3 vehicles but withdrawing Euro 6 that are going to new operators begs belief. I thought all Euro 3 vehicles should've gone by September. Yet it's an issue for a small company to use a Euro 3 when they are short.

Mileage is running and passengers are being picked up, that's the main thing and the priority. Loads of people aren't bothered what's Euro rating a vehicle is!

All were End of life with NX or had been displaced by newer buses wither infleet Transfers or new buses arriving at there Garage, 4598 has been replaced by Euro 6 Newer E400's and MMC's, 4493 I'm not sure but probably newer Euro 6 or Zero Emissions Electric Buses, 4607 again replaced by Euro 6 Newer Buses. The Omnicities is NX replacing them with new EV's and the Omnicities are non Standard so cannot/pointless transferring them. 

NX has used these veichles to there limits there use for NX is over, they have been sold on as other Operators across the Country seek newer Euro 6 buses for contracts, NX have a strong record of reliability so they see ex NX they buy, NX is refreshing it's Fleet, it isn't an attack on Carolean more hoping they have informed TFWM as we would hate to see a smaller Operator punished for a mistake, this smaller Operator providing an important service and thus far keeping out of trouble. NX will eventually be Euro 6 by the end of the year If not Mid Next Year, Twenty year old buses aren't going to viable to run for ever so NX is replacing them

[j789]

4493, 4598, 4607 etc were Euro 6 and have been withdrawn. So yes they've withdrew Euro 6 vehicles that haven't been RTA'd or fire damaged like you have said.


The Omnicities weren't end of life either, hence why they are being sold on! As we're quite a few of the Euro 6 vehicles that have been withdrawn the last few months.

NX keeping Euro 3 vehicles but withdrawing Euro 6 that are going to new operators begs belief. I thought all Euro 3 vehicles should've gone by September. Yet it's an issue for a small company to use a Euro 3 when they are short.

Mileage is running and passengers are being picked up, that's the main thing and the priority. Loads of people aren't bothered what's Euro rating a vehicle is!

You need to see it from a business point of view for NX and also they aren't breaking any rules doing that as they have permission to still use Euro 3.

As has been stated, every withdrawn Euro 6 has been replaced by a brand new vehicle (if viewed in the grander scheme of things). Likewise, it makes business sense to sell off older Euro 6 buses (where there is a ready market of buyers) rather than withdraw similar age Euro 3 buses that won't likely find a buyer and only have scrap value. May as well keep the Euro 3s until they are completely knackered as they will sadly only be making one final trip to the cutters after their current NX service.

[Marge559]

Love how people are going on the defensive for NX (with incorrect facts being posted) whilst completely missing the point that was originally being made regarding Carolean...   If you want some irony, Non euro 6 4567 is currently on the 50, let's hope TfWM and BCC have given permission!

[busfan2847]

Ex NXWM Wright Eclipse Urban BX56 XBS is on loan to Carolean Coaches today. It's currently on the 19 tracking as YY64 GWC.

Its BX56XCR according to the photo