Mid Wales Travel

[Stu]

In case anyone is wondering about such things, at the start of the year, Mid Wales Travel made some changes to some of their services in the Aberystwyth area from 1st January.

Mid Wales Travel would like to make a statement regarding the changes to the services at the end of the month.
These are not changes that we want to make. These are changes to ensure the service continues.

Firstly, please understand that we do not receive any subsidies from the council and that these services survive purely on takings from passengers. 
Passenger numbers are below 50% pre covid. 
Therefore, with 50% less money coming in and the help from the government coming to an end, we are facing serious challenges.
Added to that, the rising cost of fuel, wages, parts, maintenance and utilities mean we must make changes or the service will stop completely.
We understand this is not an ideal situation and are very sorry that we cannot carry on as before.
We thank everyone who supports us and hope you continue using our services; the more people who use the service, the more chance we can continue to support it.

From BusTimes, it appears that their 512 service running between Abersytwyth and Ynyslas via Borth and Llandre has been reduced to a every 2 hour frequency:
https://bustimes.org/services/512-ynyslas-aberystwyth-via-bow-street-2

It is probably worth pointing out to those who might otherwise be unaware, that in order to get the 'last' 512 to Ynyslas from Aberystwyth, you'll need to get the 526 to Penrynchoch, which then continues as the 512.

I assume the same arrangement for the first journey of the day as well.

[ellspurs]

http://www.midwalestravel.co.uk/sites/default/files/512%20Service%202023.pdf

That's pretty much it. Borth has the train station, and Ynyslas is a 2 kilometre walk up the beach from there. The beach and dunes are nice at Ynyslas. 

Pretty much all the non-Town services in Ceredigion have been in decline since Arriva pulled out in the 2010s.

When I was living there in the mid-2000s, the service was just as erratic. If you needed to collect a parcel from the post office sorting centre on the Glanrafon Industrial Estate, there was only 2-3 buses a day going there. At least there seems to be more buses going there now at least.

[Stu]

Travelled today on the 512 from Borth to Aberystwyth.

I wonder if any consideration has been given on the recent decision by the Welsh government to reduce all speed limits in built-up areas to 20mph on the impact to bus service reliability?

One thing I have noticed in the last couple of years I have been visiting Borth, is that generally this 512 service is pretty reliable, and even without real-time tracking information, you can be assured it will turn up as timetabled or no more than a couple of minutes late.

(Which is pretty much a good thing when this service runs every two hours, outside of the peak holiday season)

This afternoon, while waiting for the 13:34 timetabled journey from Borth Grand Hotel (by the rail station), the outbound journey towards Ynyslas Turn passed by at 13:30 over five minutes late. The bus did then turn up nearly ten minutes later, and was ten minutes late arriving into Aberystwyth bus station.

My return journey was bang on time leaving Aberystwyth at 15:00, and quite pleasingly was very much full of passengers of all ages.

But still, while a very pleasant and scenic journey, it was again five minutes late by the time I disembarked at Borth station.

This 512 service runs to a quite tight schedule, and no doubt other rural services across Wales do so too.

I appreciate that "between villages", these buses rarely get the opportunity to get above 30mph speed anyway.

It's a thorny topic, I get that.

But there is also a world of difference between getting a bus in a rural Welsh coastal village, and getting a bus in a built up conurbation like the West Midlands.

[Justin Tyme]

I thought the same when I saw Mark Drakeford quoted as saying "It's going to take you a minute longer to make your journey."  That's not going to be the case for bus passengers on services running in built-up areas.

Unfortunately the only way forward, if operators are not going to fall foul of the Traffic Commissioner, is to retime services to take account of the 20 mph limit.  For commercial services that depend on tight scheduling that's bad news.

Will we see bus service deregistrations because of this, as extra running times cause extra costs that tip marginal services over the edge?

[Stu]

I thought the same when I saw Mark Drakeford quoted as saying "It's going to take you a minute longer to make your journey."  That's not going to be the case for bus passengers on services running in built-up areas.

Unfortunately the only way forward, if operators are not going to fall foul of the Traffic Commissioner, is to retime services to take account of the 20 mph limit.  For commercial services that depend on tight scheduling that's bad news.

Will we see bus service deregistrations because of this, as extra running times cause extra costs that tip marginal services over the edge?

I don't there would be many deregistrations, but what you might find are service/frequency reductions if it is not viable to add extra buses. Operators who run services with common terminus points might try more interworking.

Worst case would be more non-clockface schedules, which probably wouldn't go down well with passengers.

It all depends on circumstances really - I remember when Birmingham City Council introduced 20mph zones in parts of Birmingham, one encompassed two sections of the Stratford Road through Sparkbrook, it didn't really affect bus journey times as buses were rarely able to get above 20mph at the best of times due to traffic congestion!

[Tony]

I wou

I don't there would be many deregistrations, but what you might find are service/frequency reductions if it is not viable to add extra buses. Operators who run services with common terminus points might try more interworking.

Worst case would be more non-clockface schedules, which probably wouldn't go down well with passengers.

It all depends on circumstances really - I remember when Birmingham City Council introduced 20mph zones in parts of Birmingham, one encompassed two sections of the Stratford Road through Sparkbrook, it didn't really affect bus journey times as buses were rarely able to get above 20mph at the best of times due to traffic congestion!

l'd imagine Cardiff, Newport & Swansea will be worse hit where it may require additional buses on routes where even 2-3 minutes each way could through the schedules out. It will also kill the buses as Euro 6 exhausts only work properly when it is at the correct working temperature, and permanently trundling around at under 20 mph it will never reach the correct temperature

[IMarkeh]

I woul'd imagine Cardiff, Newport & Swansea will be worse hit where it may require additional buses on routes where even 2-3 minutes each way could through the schedules out. It will also kill the buses as Euro 6 exhausts only work properly when it is at the correct working temperature, and permanently trundling around at under 20 mph it will never reach the correct temperature

Buses in Cardiff are quoted by Lee Waters as running at 8mph on average 

https://twitter.com/Amanwy/status/1703315385817145612?t=Q_BJ7-ArWYt4gWEUaScweA&s=19

I think he may be right as well as Cardiff Council have awful bus priority measures. It's more pro Taxi than pro bus. Shutting off key bus stops on Fri/Sat nights so that they can become taxi ranks. Massive congestion in the city with little care for getting buses around. Kind of funny for a council with their own bus company to be so anti bus.

[Tony]

Buses in Cardiff are quoted by Lee Waters as running at 8mph on average

https://twitter.com/Amanwy/status/1703315385817145612?t=Q_BJ7-ArWYt4gWEUaScweA&s=19

I think he may be right as well as Cardiff Council have awful bus priority measures. It's more pro Taxi than pro bus. Shutting off key bus stops on Fri/Sat nights so that they can become taxi ranks. Massive congestion in the city with little care for getting buses around. Kind of funny for a council with their own bus company to be so anti bus.

The average might be 8 mph, but that will include some 30mph running outside the city centre. Arriva are the first Welsh operator to say publicly it will ruin vehicles and cause financial problems 

[IMarkeh]

The average might be 8 mph, but that will include some 30mph running outside the city centre. Arriva are the first Welsh operator to say publicly it will ruin vehicles and cause financial problems

Cardiff Bus and Newport Transport made their changes in September ready for the 20mph.

https://www.cardiffbus.com/september-service-changes

We also need to fully consider the changes that have been made to road layouts, loss of highway and junction capacity for bus movements, as well as preparation for new speed limits that affect journey times.

https://www.newportbus.co.uk/service-changes-sunday-september-3

In addition, we need to adjust our timetables to take into account the upcoming implementation of the new 20mph speed limit regulation.

As for Cardiff in general, yes there are some bits of 30mph running but not an awful lot because a number of roads were already 20mph in the estates and any time you manage to get up to 30, you end to end up catching up traffic ahead. Only times when buses would go much faster is pre 6am and post 8pm

[Stu]

Looks like MWT have acquired a brand new vehicle in the form of a Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora, BV73MRY, apparently first entered service on 17th November.

Also pleasingly, since 30th November, their vehicles are now tracking on BusTimes.

I presume this is something that Ticketer have done, and makes me question the need for the Welsh Government to spend millions of pounds on developing/creating their own "Welsh Bus Open Data Service", while so many bus operators in Wales are now feeding data into BODS.

[IMarkeh]

I presume this is something that Ticketer have done, and makes me question the need for the Welsh Government to spend millions of pounds on developing/creating their own "Welsh Bus Open Data Service", while so many bus operators in Wales are now feeding data into BODS.

All of the Welsh operators who are tracking on bustimes are doing so because Bustimes has gotten the data from the Welsh Bus Data Service, not because operators are feeding into the normal BODS.

[Stu]

All of the Welsh operators who are tracking on bustimes are doing so because Bustimes has gotten the data from the Welsh Bus Data Service, not because operators are feeding into the normal BODS.

Thanks, I wasn't aware that this was up and running yet, I only read earlier this year that the Welsh government had put out contracts to tender.

Other bus operators in Wales, such as Lloyds Coaches, have been providing data into the UK BODS for a while.

[IMarkeh]

Thanks, I wasn't aware that this was up and running yet, I only read earlier this year that the Welsh government had put out contracts to tender.

Other bus operators in Wales, such as Lloyds Coaches, have been providing data into the UK BODS for a while.

Lloyds Coaches were providing data via BODS.
TrawsCymru routes, Cardiff Bus, Newport Bus and Edwards Coaches data was coming from the Passenger API.


The Welsh Bus Data thing has been released pretty quickly and it seems full of bugs. I think it has been rushed as they had the Ticketer data so they have just tried to put it out to show that the Welsh Govt can actually do something for passengers as their track record is shocking.