Centrebus

[Mayfield]

Makes you laugh, Leicester big bus plan, planned by who, probably a person who drives to work everyday and have never seen the inside of a bus, good to see the electrics on the HH and Orbital trundling round all day with very few passengers off peak, what a waste of tax payers money.

[Glenfieldmathk1]

2 "new" 09 plate double deckers have arrived in Leicester for the 22 service. Not known if they'll be used all day or just during busy periods. There's 4 on the service currently running with First, so will mean there will still likely be singles on the service also.

[SSmith09]

2 "new" 09 plate double deckers have arrived in Leicester for the 22 service. Not known if they'll be used all day or just during busy periods. There's 4 on the service currently running with First, so will mean there will still likely be singles on the service also.

They're both ex Yellow Buses Volvo B9TL's
924 - GX09 ZZS
925 - GX09 ZZT

I'd hazard a guess they'll be used all day at first to see if demand requires them or for additional deckers to be drafted in.

[47609FireFly]

2 "new" 09 plate double deckers have arrived in Leicester for the 22 service. Not known if they'll be used all day or just during busy periods. There's 4 on the service currently running with First, so will mean there will still likely be singles on the service also.

Grantham allocated 912, which was new to First London, was noted in the yard at Wenlock Way on 13/04/2023. Suggestions are that this is being loaned to Leicester and is likely to appear on the 22. Don't forget, Leicester depot also has three other double-decks, in the shape of 909, 910 & 931. All three of these are dual-doored and have their wheelchair access ramps in the rear doors but as the 22 departs from Charles Street, rather than a bus station, there would be nothing to stop them appearing on the 22 too. The only hindrance would be gaining access to the ramp, whilst on stand in the city centre, due to the metal railings by bus stop CC.

They're both ex Yellow Buses Volvo B9TL's
924 - GX09 ZZS
925 - GX09 ZZT

I'd hazard a guess they'll be used all day at first to see if demand requires them or for additional deckers to be drafted in.

Yes, both ex Yellow Buses, Bournemouth (fleet numbers 5034 and 5035), and most recently with Xela (fleet numbers 561 and 562), but both were new to Bus Vannin, Isle of Man (fleet numbers 164 and 165).

I'm not sure what demand really needs to be seen though - the 22 / 22A serve four, rather large secondary schools (Crown Hills, Judgemeadow, City of Leicester and St. Paul's). On top of that, there are a good number of parents who take their primary aged kids to schools on the route, namely Linden and Mayflower. I would be very much surprised if the change of operator caused all of those school flows to just vanish! After all, it is because of the school flows that the double-decks are needed at all. One would imagine that Centrebus has been out and done the diligence with regard to loadings. Quite easy to go for a ride on First's morning journeys to check loadings. However, as this change of operator has been instigated as part of the 'Enhanced Partnership', one would presume that loadings data would freely be available from First to Centrebus, via Leicester City Council. Let's not forget too that First often threw a single-deck vehicle at the route, when reliability went down the pan and there was chronic bunching. And certainly between school times, at school holidays and at weekends, I'd imagine a 10-minute service with single-decks would do the job adequately.

[Glenfieldmathk1]

Looking at the service 22 today..
Noted 2 double deckers (909, 910) out in service during morning peak.. with 1 staying on all day. Full sized singles were the choice for the other journeys. I'd say they'll probably be ok as long they don't start putting the Solo's on it?

912 was also in the area in the morning running the 1005 service.. surprised they didn't pull this onto the 22 route? 

[xmj-signal]

Looking at the service 22 today..
Noted 2 double deckers (909, 910) out in service during morning peak.. with 1 staying on all day. Full sized singles were the choice for the other journeys. I'd say they'll probably be ok as long they don't start putting the Solo's on it?

912 was also in the area in the morning running the 1005 service.. surprised they didn't pull this onto the 22 route?

On Tuesday (18th), 909 was out all day again and the other morning peak double decker was 912.

909 worked the 0634 22A from Evington to City Centre then remained on 22s until the end of the evening peak - this works the 0802 to Evington. 912 worked the 0714 HH 'extra' from Glenfield Hospital to Royal Infirmary before working the 0750 to Evington.

910 was on University Shuttles, but these don't seem to be running a full service this week which may be helping a bit. 931 worked the 1005 school service.

[47609FireFly]

It looks as though E200s 504, 505, 506, 530, 531 and 532 have transferred out of Leicester to D&G. Presumably as additional vehicle resources to cover the routes that Arriva are coming off of. 

Also, a picture here (not mine) of Centrebus 925, which is currently in use at Grantham. The blurb states that sister bus 924 is currently away being repainted:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acbestphotography/52829488952/

[Glenfieldmathk1]

It looks as though E200s 504, 505, 506, 530, 531 and 532 have transferred out of Leicester to D&G. Presumably as additional vehicle resources to cover the routes that Arriva are coming off of.

Also, a picture here (not mine) of Centrebus 925, which is currently in use at Grantham. The blurb states that sister bus 924 is currently away being repainted:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acbestphotography/52829488952/

Correct.. 924 freshly repainted will arrive in Leicester and 925 will then go for repaint and once that's sorted and in Leicester 912 will go back to Grantham.
It will give Centrebus an extra double decker in Leicester.. (compared to current) but like posted above, it's likely it will just be used on 22 to replace the uni service buses as they will be needed once the uni is back in full action (from next week).

[Glenfieldmathk1]

Went on the 22 today as I was in Evington in the morning. 909 is a nice bus. Smooth ride much better than a Streetdeck that's for sure. 
Seems like Centrebus have sorted out timing issues as the route seemed to be running on time. (And the bus now waiting time at the first stop on Downing Drive and not all the way down!).
Looking forward to the new vehicles when they come will have to give them a try that's for sure.

[LazyGuy222]

Went on the 22 today as I was in Evington in the morning. 909 is a nice bus. Smooth ride much better than a Streetdeck that's for sure.
Seems like Centrebus have sorted out timing issues as the route seemed to be running on time. (And the bus now waiting time at the first stop on Downing Drive and not all the way down!).
Looking forward to the new vehicles when they come will have to give them a try that's for sure.

Disagree completely. Had 909 and 910 this week and they have horribly hard seats, not to mention the fact they sound like they're about about to fall apart. They also clearly haven't properly been cleaned in ages as the amount of dust coming off the seats is disgusting
580 and (especially) 729 are exactly the same. I've never sat on a bus with seats as uncomfortable as 729 had.

Centrebus have also not improved timings as they completely skipped the 06:24 yesterday morning and both the 06:34 and 06:44 were late. I also missed a bus in the afternoon because the driver clearly didn't know what a timetable was and left Charles Street early.

The change of the start to the route to the Ingarsby Drive stop is frankly idiotic. What is the point in having the proper off-road stop outside City of Leicester if buses are going to sit blocking the road for up to 10 minutes with their engines on.

Their drivers are also really unprofessional. I've had drivers failing to give way to other vehicles, being unnecessarily rude to passengers, using their phone while the engines on and driving on the wrong side of the road after taking a corner when the correct side of the road was completely clear.

While I accept that First wasn't perfect in any way, their buses were significantly better than Centrebus's and their drivers a lot more professional. The 22 has gone from a great route to a terrible one.

Everything I've listed here has happened after just a week of them operating the service. I can't imagine what else will happen over the next months of me using the route everyday.

[Franco]

Disagree completely. Had 909 and 910 this week and they have horribly hard seats, not to mention the fact they sound like they're about about to fall apart. They also clearly haven't properly been cleaned in ages as the amount of dust coming off the seats is disgusting
580 and (especially) 729 are exactly the same. I've never sat on a bus with seats as uncomfortable as 729 had.

Centrebus have also not improved timings as they completely skipped the 06:24 yesterday morning and both the 06:34 and 06:44 were late. I also missed a bus in the afternoon because the driver clearly didn't know what a timetable was and left Charles Street early.

The change of the start to the route to the Ingarsby Drive stop is frankly idiotic. What is the point in having the proper off-road stop outside City of Leicester if buses are going to sit blocking the road for up to 10 minutes with their engines on.

Their drivers are also really unprofessional. I've had drivers failing to give way to other vehicles, being unnecessarily rude to passengers, using their phone while the engines on and driving on the wrong side of the road after taking a corner when the correct side of the road was completely clear.

While I accept that First wasn't perfect in any way, their buses were significantly better than Centrebus's and their drivers a lot more professional. The 22 has gone from a great route to a terrible one.

Everything I've listed here has happened after just a week of them operating the service. I can't imagine what else will happen over the next months of me using the route everyday.

It is really sad to see this happen to such a good bus service. Centrebus are clearly an unprofessional operator, I have found the drivers very rude and abusive and very unprofessional and sometimes on their phones with ear phones.  Drivers who are unable to drive a bus and are driven unsafely  and unable to run to a timetable . The buses used on this service are a  mix match of  of old dirty buses. Some buses on the route include very uncomfortable 09 reg double deckers and 07 reg single deckers.some are double decker to full size single deckers to 57 reg optare  versa.  The newest I've seen on the route is a 12 reg enviro 400. Some driver don't even wear a proper uniform and driving with trainers on . Centrebus have completely ruined this route. 

[47609FireFly]

Disagree completely. Had 909 and 910 this week and they have horribly hard seats, not to mention the fact they sound like they're about about to fall apart. They also clearly haven't properly been cleaned in ages as the amount of dust coming off the seats is disgusting
580 and (especially) 729 are exactly the same. I've never sat on a bus with seats as uncomfortable as 729 had.

Centrebus have also not improved timings as they completely skipped the 06:24 yesterday morning and both the 06:34 and 06:44 were late. I also missed a bus in the afternoon because the driver clearly didn't know what a timetable was and left Charles Street early.

The change of the start to the route to the Ingarsby Drive stop is frankly idiotic. What is the point in having the proper off-road stop outside City of Leicester if buses are going to sit blocking the road for up to 10 minutes with their engines on.

Their drivers are also really unprofessional. I've had drivers failing to give way to other vehicles, being unnecessarily rude to passengers, using their phone while the engines on and driving on the wrong side of the road after taking a corner when the correct side of the road was completely clear.

While I accept that First wasn't perfect in any way, their buses were significantly better than Centrebus's and their drivers a lot more professional. The 22 has gone from a great route to a terrible one.

Everything I've listed here has happened after just a week of them operating the service. I can't imagine what else will happen over the next months of me using the route everyday.

If you're a regular user of the service provided by Centrebus, I take it you've used your energy to highlight the specifics of your experiences to the bus company directly, via their customer services, rather than posting generic wibble on a forum? If you're that unhappy, perhaps you should be communicating with Leicester City Council too; after all, the change of operator of service 22 was implemented through their Enhanced Partnership plan.

Looking at the timetable carefully, I cannot see where a bus would get 10 minutes to sit blocking the road, engine running or not. Maybe there's a reason that the timing point has been moved to the first stop on Downing Drive (Ingarsby Drive) that you're unaware of? 

Sadly, all bus companies, just like every other area of life from supermarkets to police forces, have an element of rogue employees that I wouldn't employ if I owned or ran a bus operation. That applies to First equally as much as it does to Centrebus. In a post lockdown world of bus driver shortages, which has impacted most operators across the UK, companies probably have employed people who, in an 'ideal world', they wouldn't have touched with the proverbial barge pole, just to keep the wheels turning.

Are you suitably qualified to judge the professionalism of the drivers or the maintenance standards of the vehicles? If I was a betting man, I would be having a punt that there's a lot of subjectivity in your perspectives and posts in general. It's fine to have opinions but it's far better to maintain objectivity where possible.

[Glenfieldmathk1]

Disagree completely. Had 909 and 910 this week and they have horribly hard seats, not to mention the fact they sound like they're about about to fall apart. They also clearly haven't properly been cleaned in ages as the amount of dust coming off the seats is disgusting

The change of the start to the route to the Ingarsby Drive stop is frankly idiotic. What is the point in having the proper off-road stop outside City of Leicester if buses are going to sit blocking the road for up to 10 minutes with their engines on.

Their drivers are also really unprofessional.

I was on 909. I found the seats not too bad. Been on a lot more uncomfortable bus seats (Those 72 plate Arriva double deckers for example)..
To me it didn't sound too bad. Few rattles but nothing major. Loud engine but no louder than a Arriva DB decker..
Centrebus have always had a bit dusty seats.. same with the old MCW & H/G reg Scania deckers they used to use! That said they also clean them pretty good. It's down to the passengers using them making a mess. 

I wasn't aware that the service didn't or wasn't supposed to start at ingarsby drive? The times I've used 22 even in First days this was the timing stop? Timing stops don't need to have a lay-by either.. First 13 stops just after a mini roundabout! (Park drive) for its timing point. 74 in Anstey stops on the road too.. Centrebus 22A in Birstall stops on Wanlip lane again no lay-by.

Drivers may be unprofessional.. in your opinion. But actually every time I've used Centrebus I've found them polite, same on 40! I guess you ignore the driver? Whereas for me I say to them "good morning", or even "hello" when boarding! A lot of rude passengers I noticed don't. 

Anyway.. something I guess you'll just have to put up with as unfortunately that's the way it is for the foreseeable future.

I wonder if when the Geminis arrive you'll say the same?

[xmj-signal]

I wasn't aware that the service didn't or wasn't supposed to start at ingarsby drive? The times I've used 22 even in First days this was the timing stop? Timing stops don't need to have a lay-by either.. First 13 stops just after a mini roundabout! (Park drive) for its timing point. 74 in Anstey stops on the road too.. Centrebus 22A in Birstall stops on Wanlip lane again no lay-by.

Having looked at the on-line journey planner timetable for First route 22 (I looked back at Sat 25th March), the outward journey is shown to finish at "Goodwood, opp Chatteris Avenue" and the inward journey also has this as its first stop. I'll make no comment about the 'Goodwood'.

However, the route guide on the Centrebus website for their route 22 does show Ingarsby Drive as the last outward/first inward stop so Centrebus may have made the change.

That being said, I use the 22 about once a month, sometimes more, and I get off the bus at the first stop on Welland Vale Road so I travel past the "terminus". I can't remember ever waiting time before Chatteris Avenue and, when I used the service last week with Centrebus, we still waited for 3 or 4 minutes at Chatteris Avenue (I don't think we even stopped at Ingarsby Drive on that journey). So, this must be down to individual drivers.
 
There is a certain logic to being timed from the first stop on a terminal loop, though. I also imagine that a bus starting in service from Downing Drive would commence picking up passengers at the Ingarsby Drive stop.

[47609FireFly]

I think there's an element of getting confused here with the terminus arrangements up at Evington.

The Evington terminus is a one-way loop and on that loop is a timing point bus stop. For many, many years First (and their predecessors Leicester CityBus) have used the lay-by bus stop at Downing Drive / Chatteris Avenue as the timing point for service 22. As stated, Centrebus use the stop at Downing Drive / Ingarsby Drive as their timing point; something they've continued. There is a certain logic to using the first bus stop on a loop as the timing point because otherwise that stop and the one after it (outside the leisure centre) only have approximate times, which can make gauging what time your bus will arrive tricky if you're using one of those two stops.

On a route with a loop arrangement, what ought to happen is that the bus should start service from the first stop on the loop and, if the bus is on a last journey, it should remain in service until the final stop on the loop. As mentioned, if travelling to Evington on a bus that is on its last journey, there's no reason why a passenger could not travel to Welland Vale Road just because it happens to be after the timing point stop. It should not be a case of reaching Downing Drive / Ingarsby Drive and, "Right, that's it, everyone off!"

'Goodwood' is mentioned because of how stops have been recorded in NaPTAN by the local authority. Personally, I think it's blooming confusing! It's similar to how some stops are described as being in 'Spencefield' and other nondescript names that nobody has a clue about. A timing point doesn't have to be in a lay-by but I'm sure most bus companies wouldn't want to cause an unnecessary obstruction when their vehicle is waiting time. That said, with how certain areas of Leicester are now with regard to unlawful / obstructive parking of cars, which in themselves cause problems which nobody seems to want to get tough on, it can be hard to do anything other than obstruct!

I think regarding Centrebus and their vehicles it has been tricky. I have no idea what the timescale has been regarding implementing the Enhanced Partnership arrangement. Prior to it coming into play, the requirement for double-decks was quite niche at the company and using TfL spec vehicles on that work wasn't a problem. There was certainly no need for deckers on full day stage carriage work. And, as I've said before, if there wasn't such high density of schools on the Evington side of the 22 / 22A, you wouldn't really need deckers at all. Finding good quality, reasonably aged, non-TfL specification deckers on the second hand market is quite a tall order. They're in short supply. It's why when operators like Nottingham City Transport or Lothian decide to offload a batch of deckers, they get snapped up pretty quickly.

Where they do exist, like the, new to Bournemouth, Volvo B5TLs in the link below, you can see the eye-watering price tag!

https://www.busandcoachcentre.co.uk/showroom