Strike Action

[MasterPlan]

Is there anything stopping other operators (bar driver shortages etc), from running extra buses on their existing routes? Rules etc? For example, Kevs 10 could probably benefit from there being no BC 24 currently.

[Stu]

Is there anything stopping other operators (bar driver shortages etc), from running extra buses on their existing routes? Rules etc? For example, Kevs 10 could probably benefit from there being no BC 24 currently.

As has already been mentioned, besides the bus/driver availability, there is the issue of registering additional journeys onto the registered timetables.

[IMarkeh]

As has already been mentioned, besides the bus/driver availability, there is the issue of registering additional journeys onto the registered timetables.

Couldn't you register them under short notice and use the following reasons from the supplementary short notice form (PSV350A)?

'(d) register the particulars of a new service or vary the registration to augment an existing service in order to provide a service for a period not exceeding 21 days, in connection with a specified event or occasion which will cause an additional demand for a service;'

or

'(i) register or vary a registration in order to meet an urgent and exceptional public passenger transport requirement.'

[Stu]

Couldn't you register them under short notice and use the following reasons from the supplementary short notice form (PSV350A)?

'(d) register the particulars of a new service or vary the registration to augment an existing service in order to provide a service for a period not exceeding 21 days, in connection with a specified event or occasion which will cause an additional demand for a service;'

or

'(i) register or vary a registration in order to meet an urgent and exceptional public passenger transport requirement.'

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

[andy41]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

And whilst the registration would 99% be certain to be accepted, it's not going to happen as nobody has drivers. 

[2206]

And whilst the registration would 99% be certain to be accepted, it's not going to happen as nobody has drivers.

Except maybe green bus?
The Green Bus offers to 'plug gaps' caused by National Express strike after giving drivers 26 per cent pay rise (msn.com)

"The Green Bus said it had offered Transport for West Midlands the use of 18 buses to help keep key services running."

[j789]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

Would be an interesting situation created here if those operators also had Unite members.

Unite would look pretty impotent if their own members from other local companies were undermining the NX drivers action. I don't think people here are thinking about the massive repercussions that such a situation would create. Taking advantage of NX issues in the short term may seem like a good plan but what happens when all this is over - those companies will be a target of NX retaliation longer term which would likely further degrade the operating situation in the West Midlands.

[MW]

Would be an interesting situation created here if those operators also had Unite members.

Unite would look pretty impotent if their own members from other local companies were undermining the NX drivers action. I don't think people here are thinking about the massive repercussions that such a situation would create. Taking advantage of NX issues in the short term may seem like a good plan but what happens when all this is over - those companies will be a target of NX retaliation longer term which would likely further degrade the operating situation in the West Midlands.

Registering a service under those provisions means it must be during a period not exceeding 21 days. In other words, temporary.

What other operators has Unite members? I don't think any do, bar the big boys.

[Kevin_Brum12]

Except maybe green bus?
The Green Bus offers to 'plug gaps' caused by National Express strike after giving drivers 26 per cent pay rise (msn.com)

"The Green Bus said it had offered Transport for West Midlands the use of 18 buses to help keep key services running."

Would be an interesting situation created here if those operators also had Unite members.

Unite would look pretty impotent if their own members from other local companies were undermining the NX drivers action. I don't think people here are thinking about the massive repercussions that such a situation would create. Taking advantage of NX issues in the short term may seem like a good plan but what happens when all this is over - those companies will be a target of NX retaliation longer term which would likely further degrade the operating situation in the West Midlands.

Except maybe green bus?
The Green Bus offers to 'plug gaps' caused by National Express strike after giving drivers 26 per cent pay rise (msn.com)

"The Green Bus said it had offered Transport for West Midlands the use of 18 buses to help keep key services running."

If The Green Bus ran any routes during the industrial action, the only routes they could realistically run would be routes that are near the schools they run contract services for, so they can start running them when the students are at school at 09:30 and finish at 14:30.  I could see them doing the likes of the 23 and 61/63 in Birmingham (which would be helpful on the days when the trains are on strike too), but not much more than that.

[2206]

If The Green Bus ran any routes during the industrial action, the only routes they could realistically run would be routes that are near the schools they run contract services for, so they can start running them when the students are at school at 09:30 and finish at 14:30.  I could see them doing the likes of the 23 and 61/63 in Birmingham (which would be helpful on the days when the trains are on strike too), but not much more than that.

green bus typical school services end about 8.00 and some start up as late as 3.50.
https://bustimes.org/services/873-the-green-bus-king-edward-vi-camp-hill-hamst-2
So if they could provide some sort of service between 8.00 and 3.50 somethings better than nothing.

I think 90% of the school runs are likely to be commercially operated rather than contracts to.

[j789]

Registering a service under those provisions means it must be during a period not exceeding 21 days. In other words, temporary.

What other operators has Unite members? I don't think any do, bar the big boys.

Simon mentioned that Diamond have Unite reps at their West Midlands garages so it does narrow down the potential operators.

Also, plenty of pitfalls for operators like Green Bus doing this between school journeys- what happens if a bus breaks down doing these extra runs or is caught in heavy traffic? - we all know hour or more delays are possible when the roads in Brum become gridlocked. It would potentially miss the school journey it is contracted to run.

Also, I still can't see many of their drivers (who clearly have chosen this style of school bus driving as a career choice) to suddenly want to drive buses through inner city Birmingham dealing with all the riff raff that entails, no matter what they are being paid. Is the stress worth it for a few extra £100 over the 21 or what ever days it would run for?

[Kevin_Brum12]

Registering a service under those provisions means it must be during a period not exceeding 21 days. In other words, temporary.

What other operators has Unite members? I don't think any do, bar the big boys.

Would it be possible for a new registration to go in before the 21 days are up if the strike drags on and on?

[andy41]

Would it be possible for a new registration to go in before the 21 days are up if the strike drags on and on?

Yes absolutely it would. 

Problem here is the Green Bus are effectively saying they'd cover the services on a tender basis. Tfwm are already having  to borrow from the BSIP pot (very naughty they are too) just to be able to tender existing services, they certainly won't have the money to issue tenders for strike cover. 

[Stu]

Simon mentioned that Diamond have Unite reps at their West Midlands garages so it does narrow down the potential operators.

But the Unite members at other operators are not in a dispute with their employers.

[j789]

But the Unite members at other operators are not in a dispute with their employers.

True but the point of the union is as a 'collective' - everyone seen as one whole, not individuals. Local Unite drivers from other companies undermining their fellow members at NX affects that mentality and ultimately severely weakens the union.

I cannot see Unite reps at other companies encouraging their drivers to cover routes affected by strikes. Strikes are meant to disrupt, the union will look incredibly weak if it's own members are minimising that disruption!