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I'm not sure an order has been placed for the midis as yet, NXD are trialling a Wrightbus Streetlite at present. However, I agree with the secrecy, as I don't recall seeing anything in any of the trade press about the 100 x Volvo B7RLE's that had been ordered either

[Might]

A £2.2 million investment in new buses (split between NXWM & Rotala) unfortunately isn't going to buy that many new buses for the Brierley Hill area, therefore, it looks as though only a couple of the core routes mentioned will benefit from new stock

18 x Enviro 200's @ approx £125k /each
14 x Volvo B7RLE's @ approx £160k / each

Winston, that's what I think the Centro document Might be referring to!

I believe it has been suggested / rumoured that the 222 could be due some of the new Midi's later in the year.

According to http://www.centro.org.uk/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.aspx?lID=7711&sID=4284, the following is meant to happen in the Brierley Hill area:

- £2.2.m investment in brand new euro 5 buses

So presumably PE/WN might end up having more new buses.

I believe the new buses already introduced at WN and PE are Euro5 compliant. And that total figure includes other operators too.

And the 1 doesn't go to Merry Hill.  ;D

[might]

Non of PE's / WN's new buses serve Brierley Hill or Merry Hill, I believe it has been suggested / rumoured that the 222 could be due some of the new Midi's later in the year.

Would have thought the 222, 246, 276 & X96 must be good contenders for any further new vehicles deliveries @ PE

According to http://www.centro.org.uk/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.aspx?lID=7711&sID=4284, the following is meant to happen in the Brierley Hill area:

- £2.2.m investment in brand new euro 5 buses

So presumably PE/WN might end up having more new buses.

I believe the new buses already introduced at WN and PE are Euro5 compliant. And that total figure includes other operators too.

And the 1 doesn't go to Merry Hill.  ;D

None are on order for this year. I would have thought a quantity of double deckers would be ordered for Spring 2013, these should include the recently announced 21 x Hybrid double deckers from Green Bus Fund 3.

As WN has just had 25% of its fleet replaced in the matter of months, I'd be suprised if they were to receive any further new vehicles in quantity

I think that's a complete non starter, as I'm sure Coventry signed up to some quality partnership scheme and therefore doubt they'll be able to transfer out newer buses on mass to be replaced by 12/13 yr old Presidents. I'm sure the good people of Coventry would be really impressed, not....

Basically it comes back to the point that NXWM do not have sufficient Euro 2 & above double deckers, Birmingham may well benefit from newer buses, as a result of the quality partnership scheme being introduced within the City Centre, but this will be at the expense of other areas which will have newer vehicles transferred out to be replaced by 12/13 year old Presidents. The Presidents have been heavily refurbished, but this was back in 2007/2008.

Leaves the enviro's for the 21 and other routes when spare and the presidents for the rest of the double decker routes, coventry hasn't been mentioned as a possible solution so thought i would mention it, suprised someone thought it may be a good idea was expecting loads of negative comments :(

That's actually a great idea
All BC, and the major of WB, and a few AG presidents > CV
CV tridents > BC
CV geminis > AG
CV ALXs > WB

Do the gemini's/alx400 have similar controls to the presidents meaning not much type training is needed if at all due to them both being volvo. Or are they completely different just that certain garages operate all three types of vehicles or at least 2 and not tridents or enviro 400. (WB,PB and AG). If so it wouldnt take much type training if at all, if the presidents returned to Walsall. This would be a huge task but transfer the tridents at Coventry to BC and replace them with the presidents from BC as the red would be changed to sky blue and vice versa so could be quite easily repainted and training on the vehicles would have to be learnt just as if they went to Wolverhampton.

Pete,

541 was an early NXWM repaint and hasn't been refurbished, 594 & 645 however, are both more recent repaints, 645 at least has been refurbished / re-trimmed in the latest blue moquette, I think 594 was also refurbished a few years back when used on the Blythe Valley shuttle. You may find that 594 & 645 if mechanically sound, may be transferred elsewhere to withdraw TWM liveried / un-furbished examples

Don't really agree with Pensnett withdrawing NXWM liveried B6LEs unless they are mechanically knackered (541, 594, 645).

Travel London doesn't exist anymore & was sold by NX to NED Railways who have since renamed it Abellio London

Have travel london got any more E200 darts, we could get some from there for the 636.

If NXWM need to transfer newer double deckers within the fleet, obviously they are still short of Min Euro 2 double deckers within the Birmingham depots. It's not an improvement to transfer say 04/54 plate Tridents from the likes of WN to be replaced with 12/13 yr old Presidents, yes they have been extensively refurbished but the chassis & body structure has seen 12/13 years of service already, and ultimately they are early low floor double deckers. NXWM are stuck with many elderly early low floor single deckers that date from 1996-1999, however few new double deckers were purchased in 2005/2006/2008/2009 & 2010; many went to Travel London instead. Ultimately in a couple of years time they will have a similar situation with double deckers as they are currently experiencing with single deckers, where large quantities will need replacing altogether i.e. 99 x V/W-reg Presidents, 100 x Y-reg Tridents, 80 x 51/02 reg Volvo B7TL/ALX400 etc 

I think it's been suggested that some of the 30 x Midi's on order from autumn 2012 delivery may be for the 636 & possibly the 222, something will need to replace the B6's at BC for a few months though whilst the new buses are being built

It would be funny if someone at NXWM was actually reading through our suggestions, most of which make sense!

Tony is right, there are plenty of double-decks in the fleet to go round, look at Wolverhampton. They have plenty of Tridents, yet only operate one route into Birmingham.

And with the money and time invested in repairing and repainting the Presidents, they're not going away for withdrawal any time soon. More likely they'll get transferred to another garage that may have operated them in the past (Walsall or Yardley Wood?), introduced at a garage that hasn't used them before (Wolverhampton), or kept at Acocks Green for the Outer Circle.

At the moment, NXWM are rightly concentrating on withdrawing the older battered single-decks that are really showing their age (funny how double-decks seem to last much longer!) and definitely aren't suitable for use in the city centre.

My only concern, and as this topic may have gone off at a tangent already might justify a new one, is what will happen to the 636 and its allocation of B6LEs.

Tony, is 4176 in exactly the same livery as 4177?

4176 outside Walsall paintshop today

Basically, the long & short of it is NXWM are short of newer (Min Euro 2) double deckers, they desperately need to order some further new one's or consider acquiring some second hand examples as an interim measure. Even the 21 x Hybrid double deckers NX have been awarded Green Bus funding for will not be here until Spring 2013

Honestly, I hope none of this happens. The Presidents at AG are getting too much now. They're bloody everywhere! On the 1, 31, 37, 966, and since I work in Solihull, they're all I see, along with Omnishi*s. See the few Tridents & Geminis here and there, but mainly Presidents & Scanias now.

I can't see the 11 being all President operated anyway. I see it partially operated by Presidents yes, but not the whole thing. I doubt AG will lose a large amount of Geminis, but that's possibly wishful thinking? I reckon we'll lose the 45** batch soon, to WB, but I hope not.

I read somewhere, someone suggesting YW for Presidents. Just to make a point, that would be absolutely ridiculous!

Pete, like your thinking...

Another scenario may be as follows, the remaining 31 x Volvo B7RLE single deckers which are currently unallocated, but I believe it's been suggested that they may be going to BC. Could these be used as an interim measure to convert a couple of BC's routes temporarily to single deckers thus releasing the 31 x Presidents to AG, with onward Gemini cascades to WB?

I'm assuming the 11 is going to converted to Presidents as a short term thing before new deckers are ordered next year.

The basic points are thus:

1) I make it that AG would need 65 Presidents (57 plus 8 spare) if they used them solely on the 1, 11 and 966. They currently have 39. Obviously they need 26 from somewhere.
2) WB needs 18 more Geminis to make all their Birmingham decker services comply with the new regulations.
3) BC Needs to lose its 31 Presidents.

The following would satisfy this:

18 Presidents WB > AG
18 Geminis AG > WB

(This leaves 11 Presidents at WB for the 451)

8 Presidents BC > AG
8 Geminis AG > WA
8 Tridents WA > BC

23 Presidents BC > WN/YW
23 Tridents WN/YW > BC

(Think WN would be better as they only have one City Centre route they could stray onto).

Any thoughts?

Michael, it looks as though you were right, and looking more likely that Presidents will have be used on the 11A/11C, surely this can only be a interim measure what with the Outer Circle being a famous route, and new double deckers can be ordered later in the year.

Problem is, I can't yet see what's going to replace the remaining Presidents at BC?, unless they intend to replace the Presidents with new B7RLE single deckers temporarily, but I can't see that going down well with passengers on any of BC's routes as they are get so busy

As West Brom seem to be getting more AG gemini's will it mean the presidents will move to AG in return as a swop

No, West Brom are losing B6LE/Mercs and gaining Deckers, to make the 128/129 into a double deck operation. It would be pointless if they were in exchange for Presidents.

I reckon AG will be getting a shed load of ex BC Presidents in the next coming months for use on routes not visiting Birmingham. Having said that, routes like the 1 & 31 have to be operated by Geminis, and with most of the 45** batch left AG, it seems the BX54 ones will be used, with the Presidents on the 11A/C.