Just wondering the average these companies last, there's a lot of small operators but centro never seem to take them that seriously regarding all this bus reviews. Is there much space to find a gap in the market these days are is there only chance to survive is by competing on major corridors and bus routes.
I have never understood why so many small operators set up in the West Midlands because there really isn't any gaps left. NXWM have everything covered really, and it seems the small operators have to resort to doing the little estates dropping old biddies off at the front door as that is the only way they are able to get by!
That's exactually what I was thinking and apart from a few, if they were all taken off the road tomorrow would they be missed Or even noticed by passengers!
Banga Travel for one has lasted a long, long time. It seemed to get completely ignored in the bus reviews (still even has 5xx route numbers). Then there's Travel Express who don't seem to be going anywhere soon and compete directly with NX on the 32, 33, 11, 1 and 598.
A lot of the small operators around here though have been eaten up by Midland so now Arriva.
To be fair a lot of them didn't start out so small at all. Take the Green Bus Service for example (not "The Green Bus Company"), they used to be massive, but ended up with a fleet of a few merc vans. They eventually became Whitewings and then their routes gobbled up by Midland and Arriva.
Isn't there one in Perry Bar thats been whittled down to one bus and one driver?
Quote from: Badger on August 17, 2012, 05:16:53 PM
Isn't there one in Perry Bar thats been whittled down to one bus and one driver?
Yes, that is Hi Ride on the 40X from One Stop to Bearwood.
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/Hi-Ride/hi_ride_g447lep.html
I was never aware that they done more than 1 route! I only thought they have ever done the 40X.
Central Logistics / Redwing Contracts must have been operating for 10 years or more now.
Central Logistics with their green Iveco 16 seaters and 1 white Merc began on the 17 (City - Tile Cross) running placing journeys on the 79E (Birmingham - Hill Top), they also had a brief attempt at 14E (City - Tile Cross) running placing journeys on the 16 (City - Hamstead) as Redwing Contracts.
They then ran 88E City - Londonderry changing and re-routing to 89E now terminating at the Town Hall. They seem to finish by about 3 p.m. in the afternoon.
The company is run by a father and 2 sons.
Claribels in East Birmingham continue to hold their own. I would like to see them expand their bus operations.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 17, 2012, 10:50:31 PM
Claribels in East Birmingham continue to hold their own. I would like to see them expand their bus operations.
Its seems really difficult and financially risky for smaller operators to expand their bus operations at the current time even the larger companies like rotala have been reducing there services and havent started any new commerical services for a few years now i think the 59 was the last one black diamond started commercially but monkeyjoe as i dont know East Birmingham services that well which services would you suggest they tried or make up from new?
I remember Diamond on the 451 for a few weeks a couple of years back then they abandoned it!
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 18, 2012, 12:54:16 AM
I remember Diamond on the 451 for a few weeks a couple of years back then they abandoned it!
Petes did ok on the 451 but let it die with old buses and not responding to NXWM if like the 401 and 2 they stuck at it I think diamond would have inherited a good route the short time i was at petes and used a good bus on it I picked up good loads all day and a bonus (by doing things correctly and by the book it was TWM who were the bad ones cut up by them by agressive behaviour not saying all WB drivers are like that)
I noticed that small operators do tend to do routes that are generally not main routes (ie housing estates)
Just wondered how long Joe's Travel had been running now ..
On that note, GRS have been around for a few years now haven't they, I remember the first time I saw them, using those half black half Arriva Lance things!
Quote from: Discodave on August 18, 2012, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 18, 2012, 12:54:16 AM
I remember Diamond on the 451 for a few weeks a couple of years back then they abandoned it!
Petes did ok on the 451 but let it die with old buses and not responding to NXWM if like the 401 and 2 they stuck at it I think diamond would have inherited a good route the short time i was at petes and used a good bus on it I picked up good loads all day and a bonus (by doing things correctly and by the book it was TWM who were the bad ones cut up by them by agressive behaviour not saying all WB drivers are like that)
I remember the Pete's Travel 451, it used to only go from Sutton to Kingstamnding Circle and my cousin caught it wanting to go to Pheasey and had to walk from Kingstanding!
Did do full route when I worked there
Quote from: j_rp_wright on August 17, 2012, 02:07:08 PM
Just wondering the average these companies last, there's a lot of small operators but centro never seem to take them that seriously regarding all this bus reviews. Is there much space to find a gap in the market these days are is there only chance to survive is by competing on major corridors and bus routes.
I don't work in the bus industry, but I expect that Centro consult with all operators in each area. As the small operators mainly compete head-on with NX, it may well be that they wait to see what NX intend to do and
then decide what they themselves will do.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on August 20, 2012, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: j_rp_wright on August 17, 2012, 02:07:08 PM
Just wondering the average these companies last, there's a lot of small operators but centro never seem to take them that seriously regarding all this bus reviews. Is there much space to find a gap in the market these days are is there only chance to survive is by competing on major corridors and bus routes.
I don't work in the bus industry, but I expect that Centro consult with all operators in each area. As the small operators mainly compete head-on with NX, it may well be that they wait to see what NX intend to do and then decide what they themselves will do.
its the only way they can survive if the route is going to be swamped its time to go eslsewhere and not be forced out of business
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 19, 2012, 12:36:15 AM
Quote from: Discodave on August 18, 2012, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 18, 2012, 12:54:16 AM
I remember Diamond on the 451 for a few weeks a couple of years back then they abandoned it!
Petes did ok on the 451 but let it die with old buses and not responding to NXWM if like the 401 and 2 they stuck at it I think diamond would have inherited a good route the short time i was at petes and used a good bus on it I picked up good loads all day and a bonus (by doing things correctly and by the book it was TWM who were the bad ones cut up by them by agressive behaviour not saying all WB drivers are like that)
I remember the Pete's Travel 451, it used to only go from Sutton to Kingstamnding Circle and my cousin caught it wanting to go to Pheasey and had to walk from Kingstanding!
If i remember right Pete's ran a full service, they also used to do a 452 service which i think went to Falcon Lodge and ran only on Sundays. Midland Rider used to run the 451 from Kingstanding to Sutton.
The 452 used to run the 451 route from West Brom - Scott Arms with a one way loop along Jayshaw Avenue @ a time the 451 ran from Kingstanding - Sutton C'field. The 452 was withdrawn when the 451 was extended to the full route.
Petes tried the full 451 route twice once using low floors, which were then taken off to be placed on the 97 & then again with Carlyle Darts which were displaced at the end of their first attempt @ the 50.
I would agree with the notion that Centro do tend to ignore smaller operators, In the days of AMPM Centro completely ignored AMPM during the East B'ham/Solihull review, only re-printing the review leaflets to include the fact AMPMs routes were not altering when a complaint was sent in.
There was also the time when NXWM changed the route number of the 14A to 14. AMPM deliberately did not change the number as there was a plan to extend the route to a different destination other than Cwood. Centro removed the 14A numbers from the stop plates & informed AMPM that if they wanted to keep the route as 14A then they would have to pay for the number to be placed at each stop plate along the route, even though it had been on the stops & they had removed it without consideration for any other operators service number other than NXWM.
It is completely disgusting how Centro (who should be unbiased) treat some operators.
Quote from: John on August 17, 2012, 05:48:04 PM
Quote from: Badger on August 17, 2012, 05:16:53 PM
Isn't there one in Perry Bar thats been whittled down to one bus and one driver?
Yes, that is Hi Ride on the 40X from One Stop to Bearwood.
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/Hi-Ride/hi_ride_g447lep.html
I was never aware that they done more than 1 route! I only thought they have ever done the 40X.
As far as I know it has only ever done one route too. Did it not used to be pretty regular service at one point competing with the 123/440... it seems to have been cut back a fair bit of the years with odd journeys terminating short at Cape Hill. It would be interesting to see how well they do.
Redwing going?
5th May 2013
89 Redwing Birmingham - Londonderry via
Cape Hill
Service withdrawn
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 19, 2012, 12:36:15 AM
Quote from: Discodave on August 18, 2012, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 18, 2012, 12:54:16 AM
I remember Diamond on the 451 for a few weeks a couple of years back then they abandoned it!
Petes did ok on the 451 but let it die with old buses and not responding to NXWM if like the 401 and 2 they stuck at it I think diamond would have inherited a good route the short time i was at petes and used a good bus on it I picked up good loads all day and a bonus (by doing things correctly and by the book it was TWM who were the bad ones cut up by them by agressive behaviour not saying all WB drivers are like that)
Pete's worked 451 in the following ways
451E Sutton - Kingstanding only with full Sutton - West brom placement journeys for 119 / 451E. There were also 3 placement early evening journeys West Brom - Sutton to get buses from 401/2 to take up evening contract on route 71.
451 West Brom - Sutton ran for a while with route branded Carlyle Darts which eventually became low floor Darts / Tridents.
I remember the Pete's Travel 451, it used to only go from Sutton to Kingstamnding Circle and my cousin caught it wanting to go to Pheasey and had to walk from Kingstanding!
Quote from: vinh1000 on April 24, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
Redwing going?
5th May 2013
89 Redwing Birmingham - Londonderry via
Cape Hill
Service withdrawn
Central Logisitics are gaining Redwing's workings
Aren't redwing & central logisits the same firm some link some where
Quote from: Shaun on April 24, 2013, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: vinh1000 on April 24, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
Redwing going?
5th May 2013
89 Redwing Birmingham - Londonderry via
Cape Hill
Service withdrawn
Central Logisitics are gaining Redwing's workings
But from the following weekend?
Quote from: busfan2847 on April 25, 2013, 01:55:46 PM
Quote from: Shaun on April 24, 2013, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: vinh1000 on April 24, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
Redwing going?
5th May 2013
89 Redwing Birmingham - Londonderry via
Cape Hill
Service withdrawn
Central Logisitics are gaining Redwing's workings
But from the following weekend?
Central Logistics increases frequency
Begs me to wonder are they the same company lol?
Quote from: vinh1000 on April 25, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: busfan2847 on April 25, 2013, 01:55:46 PM
Quote from: Shaun on April 24, 2013, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: vinh1000 on April 24, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
Redwing going?
5th May 2013
89 Redwing Birmingham - Londonderry via
Cape Hill
Service withdrawn
Central Logisitics are gaining Redwing's workings
But from the following weekend?
Central Logistics increases frequency
Begs me to wonder are they the same company lol?
I'm sure there is some connection between the two.
I think they are the same company, on the Network West Midlands website operator list, they both have the same contact telephone number:
http://networkwestmidlands.com/MultimodalOperators/multimodal_operators.aspx
As I understand it. They are not the same company
Central Logistics was set up to run the 17E / 79E owned by the father, Mr. Sandhu.
A few years later Redwing Contracts was set up by one of his sons to operate the 14E / 16.
They shared a depot in Wednesbury (close to the Metro depot) before moving to a unit in Darlaston / Bilston area. The white Mercedes and the 49 seater coach (now gone) is owned by Redwing Contracts and the green Ivecos are split between the 2 comapnies.
When they had difficulty employing / retaining drivers they came off the above routes and went onto the 88E (a route which Mr. Sandhu had previously driven on regularly for both Thandi and Pete's Travel). When NX changed to the 89 and rerouted around Londonderry both companies followed suit. When emission rules came into force last Summer the 89 was curtailed to the Town Hall.
I don't have any idea why Redwing Contracts is now being wound up.
They're not the same company. But I can't tell the difference between the two, the 88 (now ceased) and 89 run close to me and they've been running on it for about 4 years now, I've never actually been on one, I think they may have a logo determining whether they're Redwing or Central
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/city-bus-firm-taking-hundreds-21338036
North Birmingham Travel, whom run minibuses for disabled children to school, have had their contract scrapped and referred to safeguarding officers due to issues with DBS checks.
Quote from: ellspurs on August 18, 2021, 07:24:37 PM
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/city-bus-firm-taking-hundreds-21338036
North Birmingham Travel, whom run minibuses for disabled children to school, have had their contract scrapped and referred to safeguarding officers due to issues with DBS checks.
As reported in the bus and coach press, the new contract has gone to HATS - Healthcare and Transport Services.
Quote from: B61 ANDREW on September 03, 2021, 05:22:27 PM
As reported in the bus and coach press, the new contract has gone to HATS - Healthcare and Transport Services.
Birmingham Coach Park on Newtown Row had around 60 minibuses parked in it today
Thanks Tony , what is the hourly rate for parking these days !! :D
HATS appear to be based in the London area with more operations in the North West. So it looks like this contract starts to fill the gap in between. Interesting times ahead.
It appears from press reports that many North Birmingham drivers did not have a DBS therefore where will HATS drivers come from?
Quote from: igogeneral on September 04, 2021, 02:42:30 PM
It appears from press reports that many North Birmingham drivers did not have a DBS therefore where will HATS drivers come from?
I doubt they will be paying more than NEAT as well who also need more drivers so are how many complaints of missing school there are next week
Quote from: B61 ANDREW on September 03, 2021, 05:22:27 PM
As reported in the bus and coach press, the new contract has gone to HATS - Healthcare and Transport Services.
Vehicles I indentified in the coach park today (I wasn't allowed access)
LF13 LGX last reported gone from Olympic, Wimbledon Park (LN)
LJ14 BPY ex West Sussex County Council, Chichester (XWS)
LJ14 BGO ex West Sussex County Council, Chichester (XWS)
DK14 BVM ex ?
GV64 NGU ex Newton Rigg College, Penrith (XCA)
SF65 JZA ex ?
YM16 XYZ ex Thetford Academy (XNK)
YT16 RSO ex Linslade School, Leighton Linslade (XBD)
YT16 ZNH ex Thameside Primary School, Grays (XEX)
LT55 WDA ex Alders Clinic, Gloucester (XGL)
YN66 NVE ex ?
CU17 UWK ex ?
CV17 GXK ex Day's Rental, Swansea (YCW)
HX17 BCZ ex ?
EO67 OGT ex Leicestershire County Council (XLE)
HX67 DMU ex ?
EN67 MYR ex Leicester City Council (XLE)
CV67 RBX ex Day's Rental, Swansea (YCW)
EO67 OGV ex Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council (XSY)
YL67 VLV ex JB Cars, Tonbridge & Malling (YKT)
FJ18 UUC ex ?
FJ18 UPS ex ?
FJ18 UST ex ?
HT18 WUM ex Mayday, Croydon (LN)
MX68 DXD ex East Surrey Rural Transport, Oxted (XSR)
LG68 GVP ex ?
CV68 JWM ex Day's Rental, Swansea (YCW)
KY68 YAU ex London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (XLN)
MX68 DXT ex CT Plus, Hackney (LN)
MX68 DWZ ex ?
MX69 RBU ex ?
SF19 KJE ex ?
YT69 URX ex ?
KV69 ZCO ex ?
KP69 AXD ex ?
KV69 VYO ex ?
KX21 RYZ MB
KX21 RZF MB
KX21 RZA MB
KW21 BVF MB
KS21 XGA MB
KN21 JZW MB
KN21 LBF MB
KS21 XMM MB
KS21 XMD MB
KN21 LCV MB
KS21 XML MB
KN21 LOD MB
WF71 HMZ Fd Tourneo
WF71 HNB Fd Tourneo
WF71 HNE Fd Tourneo
WF71 HNG Fd Tourneo
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to i/d and post details. Guess HATS no longer qualify as a "small operator" . ;)
Quote from: B61 ANDREW on September 08, 2021, 09:23:19 PM
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to i/d and post details. Guess HATS no longer qualify as a "small operator" . ;)
Well "HATS" off to them for that then... 😂
I'll get my coat... 😂😂😂