https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2024/W34/829227559
current list of routes and services up for tender come jan 2025, to be awarded in october.
Never realised the 44 was tendered.
They only went out yesterday.
Notable differences in Solihull area are
A12 to do a loop from Sharmans Cross to Acocks Green as normal and then down to Robin Hood Island, Stratford Road, Solihull Road and back at Sharmans Cross to head into Solihull. Renumbered 630A/C. Why? I don't know.
A15 to mirror existing A12 between Solihull and Olton, and then to Lyndon and Acocks Green. Renumbered 615. Don't ask about the 615A being proposed.
Alternatively, an S66 from Acocks Green to Solihull and then to Birmingham Airport is being proposed. I don't see that happening.
The biggest mindf*** is what's being proposed for the A4/A5 or should I say 665A/C doing different lines of routes between Dickens Heath and Wythall.
I think we'll see these services split between Diamond and LandFlight.
Also the 601 / 602 (current A1/A2) are out to tender.
Quote from: MW on August 29, 2024, 04:05:07 PMThey only went out yesterday.
Notable differences in Solihull area are
A12 to do a loop from Sharmans Cross to Acocks Green as normal and then down to Robin Hood Island, Stratford Road, Solihull Road and back at Sharmans Cross to head into Solihull. Renumbered 630A/C. Why? I don't know.
A15 to mirror existing A12 between Solihull and Olton, and then to Lyndon and Acocks Green. Renumbered 615. Don't ask about the 615A being proposed.
Alternatively, an S66 from Acocks Green to Solihull and then to Birmingham Airport is being proposed. I don't see that happening.
The biggest mindf*** is what's being proposed for the A4/A5 or should I say 665A/C doing different lines of routes between Dickens Heath and Wythall.
I think we'll see these services split between Diamond and LandFlight.
Also the 601 / 602 (current A1/A2) are out tso tender.
The use of 6xx series of numbers again will send 1 or 2 on some of the buses related pages in Facebook into a frenzy !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 29, 2024, 06:35:16 PMThe use of 6xx series of numbers again will send 1 or 2 on some of the buses related pages in Facebook into a frenzy !
noticed that there has been a lot of three digit route numbers this tender round thought we were keeping to more simple numbers for simplicity, but guess not.
with the:
214/215/224/231
601/602/615/630AC/637/665AC/675/676/677
with some previously double digit routes possibly also going triple,
14/14A -> 214/215
77/77A/X15 -> 675/676/677
Quote from: EK40 on August 29, 2024, 06:55:10 PMnoticed that there has been a lot of three digit route numbers this tender round thought we were keeping to more simple numbers for simplicity, but guess not.
with the:
214/215/224/231
601/602/615/630AC/637/665AC/675/676/677
with some previously double digit routes possibly also going triple,
14/14A -> 214/215
77/77A/X15 -> 675/676/677
Why renumber the X15 ?
Quote from: EK40 on August 29, 2024, 03:39:26 PMhttps://bidstats.uk/tenders/2024/W34/829227559
current list of routes and services up for tender come jan 2025, to be awarded in october.
This is interesting, I don't recall TfWM advertising contract tenders this way before.
Unless the intention is to try and attract new operators from outside the area?
Quote from: MW on August 29, 2024, 04:05:07 PMAlternatively, an S66 from Acocks Green to Solihull and then to Birmingham Airport is being proposed. I don't see that happening.
S66 going to the airport could be a way to kill off the X12? now that the 97A serves the airport.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on August 29, 2024, 11:18:40 PMS66 going to the airport could be a way to kill off the X12? now that the 97A serves the airport.
Or it'd be a service that allows people from the other side of Solihull a direct link to the airport, same as the x12 is doing to North Solihull and the 97a is now for east Birmingham.
Quote from: ellspurs on August 30, 2024, 12:57:58 PMOr it'd be a service that allows people from the other side of Solihull a direct link to the airport, same as the x12 is doing to North Solihull and the 97a is now for east Birmingham.
It's a combination of the A15/A1/A2 and then onto the Airport, so not replacing the X12.
That does make more sense, but would the buses fit up the roads the a1/a2 go up in Damsonwood?
Quote from: ellspurs on August 30, 2024, 02:18:16 PMThat does make more sense, but would the buses fit up the roads the a1/a2 go up in Damsonwood?
Well, the A1 / A2 have been operated by 12m vehicles in their previous guises, so yes.
QuoteThey only went out yesterday.
Notable differences in Solihull area are
A12 to do a loop from Sharmans Cross to Acocks Green as normal and then down to Robin Hood Island, Stratford Road, Solihull Road and back at Sharmans Cross to head into Solihull. Renumbered 630A/C. Why? I don't know.
A15 to mirror existing A12 between Solihull and Olton, and then to Lyndon and Acocks Green. Renumbered 615. Don't ask about the 615A being proposed.
Alternatively, an S66 from Acocks Green to Solihull and then to Birmingham Airport is being proposed. I don't see that happening.
The biggest mindf*** is what's being proposed for the A4/A5 or should I say 665A/C doing different lines of routes between Dickens Heath and Wythall.
I think we'll see these services split between Diamond and LandFlight.
Also the 601 / 602 (current A1/A2) are out to tender.
Don't forget stagecoach, they currently have a dominance in this area too
Would it be viable for stagecoach to take over some of these services?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on August 30, 2024, 05:30:05 PMWould it be viable for stagecoach to take over some of these services?
I'm not sure if you understand how the tendering process works.
The contracts will be awarded on basis of lowest cost or 'best value'.
Operators will make bids depending on how much subsidy they would require to provide a service.
It is up to Stagecoach whether they think its viable and choose to bid or not.
I didn't realise the WA10, WN15/15A, 16, WB 47, 49, 3 PN14/14A and YW 76 were all Tendered
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on August 30, 2024, 08:08:26 PMI didn't realise the WA10, WN15/15A, 16, WB 47, 49, 3 PN14/14A and YW 76 were all Tendered
Not all boards on all of them are just a few.
Quote from: Stu on August 30, 2024, 07:20:34 PMI'm not sure if you understand how the tendering process works.
The contracts will be awarded on basis of lowest cost or 'best value'.
Operators will make bids depending on how much subsidy they would require to provide a service.
It is up to Stagecoach whether they think its viable and choose to bid or not.
Got that, thanks for telling me
Quote from: ellspurs on August 30, 2024, 12:57:58 PMOr it'd be a service that allows people from the other side of Solihull a direct link to the airport, same as the x12 is doing to North Solihull and the 97a is now for east Birmingham.
There have been loads of services over the years that have come and gone linking south brum to the airport , so unlikely would impact x12. Ie 174, 38 and 6 just a few I can think of.
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on August 30, 2024, 05:30:05 PMWould it be viable for stagecoach to take over some of these services?
Probably not, as they've still not got a local depot & and are operating their current contracts from miles away...
Looks to me like the 14 could lose its link to Foxyards which will be replaced by the 214 as only the 14 on eves and Sundays are tendered. The 215 would be a new route to Warrens Hall and along with the 214 is a Mon-Sat daytime tender.
Are the 3 digit numbers making a comeback?
Quote from: BK63 YWP on August 31, 2024, 07:15:55 PMAre the 3 digit numbers making a comeback?
Perhaps. Of course a few never went away such the 126 and 529.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on August 31, 2024, 09:29:24 PMPerhaps. Of course a few never went away such the 126 and 529.
934, 935, 936, 937, 997, 101, 907
Also never went away
And not NX there is still the 303, 326, 223, 224, 226 and 229
Quote from: BK63 YWP on August 31, 2024, 07:15:55 PMAre the 3 digit numbers making a comeback?
I'm guessing its something to do with getting ready for franchising as bus routes aren't meant to be the same or similar, Greater Manchester did the same in Wigan where services like 1 and 2 is now 601/602.
Would A9 be re numbered too? Would look silly as the only 'A' route?
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on September 01, 2024, 02:15:43 PM934, 935, 936, 937, 997, 101, 907
Also never went away
And not NX there is still the 303, 326, 223, 224, 226 and 229
And Banga 891& 530 plus Diamond 242, 125, 142 (now joined by the 142A), 310
Quote from: Jack D on September 11, 2024, 11:07:46 AMWould A9 be re numbered too? Would look silly as the only 'A' route?
Solihull used to have letter numbers for minibus services, remember catching the Y to my Aunt's in Yardley. There were others, can't remember then though.
At one time Stagecoach had minibus services in Coventry with just a letter, as I can remember C for Cheylesmore.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on September 11, 2024, 08:15:15 PMSolihull used to have letter numbers for minibus services, remember catching the Y to my Aunt's in Yardley. There were others, can't remember then though.
A Acocks Green-Solihull via Streetsbrook Road
B Solihull-Dorridge via Bentley Heath
D Solihull-Damsonwood
G Acocks Green-Hall Green
K Solihull-Dorridge via Knowle
S Acocks Green-Sheldon
Y Solihull-Yardley via Wells Green
Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 11, 2024, 08:42:11 PMAt one time Stagecoach had minibus services in Coventry with just a letter, as I can remember C for Cheylesmore.
Wasn't the SC Coventry minibus fleet all kept at a depot off Rowley Rd? Not far from where the former MDC depot was?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on September 13, 2024, 08:39:33 AMWasn't the SC Coventry minibus fleet all kept at a depot off Rowley Rd? Not far from where the former MDC depot was?
Yes, other side of the road
I now suspect we might either see a new entrant to the WM market or Stagecoach may go for a big swoop again.
Only hearsay though, of course.
Who though, definitely not first because the closest is Worcester which I would suspect is too far to do any services in Birmingham. I don't think chaserider would either.
Quote from: MW on September 14, 2024, 03:24:17 PMI now suspect we might either see a new entrant to the WM market or Stagecoach may go for a big swoop again.
Only hearsay though, of course.
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on September 14, 2024, 03:44:32 PMWho though, definitely not first because the closest is Worcester which I would suspect is too far to do any services in Birmingham. I don't think chaserider would either.
Stagecoach are already running their Birmingham services all the way from Rugby. Maybe this works out cheaper than renting or buying a depot or outstation in Birmingham.
The likes of First, GoAhead or even Arriva might take an interest in bidding on TfWM contracts, if they have one eye on future franchise opportunities in the West Midlands. They'd just need to find some premises somewhere for a depot and then send in some spare or surplus vehicles from elsewhere, and recruit locally for drivers.
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on September 14, 2024, 03:44:32 PMWho though, definitely not first because the closest is Worcester which I would suspect is too far to do any services in Birmingham. I don't think chaserider would either.
Arriva could probably run some North Birmingham services from Tamworth? As Diamond run Stourbridge/Dudley services from Kidderminster.
Placement trips on the 110 maybe?
It wouldn't be the first time they've ran WM tenders as they exited these several years ago.
Anybody any idea when the Tenders will be announced, heard it was October 2024
Quote from: woody38 on October 17, 2024, 11:03:11 AMAnybody any idea when the Tenders will be announced, heard it was October 2024
They normally post them here https://www.tfwm.org.uk/who-we-are/what-we-do/bus-services/bus-tenders/
Tenders will be announced at the end of the month although when they will be published on line I'm unsure.
Surely on smaller routes like 67 Wednesbury to Yew Tree via Friar Park it will be harder to bid on as if it is low passenger numbers is it worth Diamond or NX going for it as it could end up making a loss in the long term.
Quote from: wembley86 on October 23, 2024, 01:59:46 PMSurely on smaller routes like 67 Wednesbury to Yew Tree via Friar Park it will be harder to bid on as if it is low passenger numbers is it worth Diamond or NX going for it as it could end up making a loss in the long term.
That's all taken into account
Have tenders been announced?
If the new Metro Mayor was that keen on franchising surely this group of tenders could have been this first group of routes to be in franchise bids
Quote from: wembley86 on October 29, 2024, 06:32:35 PMIf the new Metro Mayor was that keen on franchising surely this group of tenders could have been this first group of routes to be in franchise bids
No, they couldn't. It's not that simple.
Any news on changes yet?
Quote from: Jack D on November 01, 2024, 07:24:56 PMAny news on changes yet?
I'm pretty sure as soon as anyone knows anything that can be publicly divulged then it will be posted here in due course.
Quote from: Stu on November 01, 2024, 07:44:16 PMI'm pretty sure as soon as anyone knows anything that can be publicly divulged then it will be posted here in due course.
Operators haven't even been notified of tender awards yet.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on September 11, 2024, 08:15:15 PMSolihull used to have letter numbers for minibus services, remember catching the Y to my Aunt's in Yardley. There were others, can't remember then though.
A, B, D, G, K, S, T, Y dont think i missed any ?
all were operated by AG, usually Iveco's on A, B & S the rest were usually Metroriders (i dont remember the Transits except on The A)
There were also the L and M, Solihull - Monkspath - Shirley.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on November 02, 2024, 07:30:01 PMThere were also the L and M, Solihull - Monkspath - Shirley.
Also R (Acocks Green-Yardley (Swan)
Tender Outcomes were sent out today - shouldn't be too long till we find out who's won what!
QuoteTender Outcomes were sent out today - shouldn't be too long till we find out who's won what!
Has it been made public yet?
Quote from: BBS on November 10, 2024, 01:20:12 PMHas it been made public yet?
If it was made public, someone would say
Quote from: BBS on November 10, 2024, 01:20:12 PMHas it been made public yet?
No, and won't be until after the 18th November
Quote from: BBS on November 10, 2024, 01:20:12 PMHas it been made public yet?
The reason why is that whilst the Tender Outcomes have been sent to Operators, the Operators now have a period to accept or decline the tender. Nothing will be made public until both parties are satisfied and happy to go ahead.
Mr Parker is disappointed that he can't make more money out of the Tender processes (there was an article on Birmingham Mail saying this but I cannot find it). He wants more companies involved in the Tender process to push up the prices of the tenders so they get more money.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 10, 2024, 04:59:30 PMMr Parker is disappointed that he can't make more money out of the Tender processes (there was an article on Birmingham Mail saying this but I cannot find it). He wants more companies involved in the Tender process to push up the prices of the tenders so they get more money.
I think you mean more competition to reduce tender prices to save them money.
TfWM subsidise bus operators to run the tendered services.
Quote from: winston on November 10, 2024, 05:03:22 PMI think you mean more competition to reduce tender prices to save them money.
TfWM subsidise bus operators to run the tendered services.
That... makes more sense.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 10, 2024, 04:59:30 PMMr Parker is disappointed that he can't make more money out of the Tender processes (there was an article on Birmingham Mail saying this but I cannot find it). He wants more companies involved in the Tender process to push up the prices of the tenders so they get more money.
And of course the West Midlands has such a great history of attracting high quality, smaller companies into the area ...... NOT!
Cheaper tenders mean reduced quality, likely clapped out Darts or E200s running round putting new passengers off trying the bus.
If Mr Parker really cared about our buses, he'd be constantly on at the Labour government to support operators with new vehicle grants so that all local tenders were operated by new (or at the very least nearly new) vehicles. Stipulating 'Euro 6' does equate to quality either, emissions may be lower yet the bus itself can still look unattractive.
Realistically what operators would join the west midlands market? I'm pretty sure new companies like first wouldn't as they've tried already.
Quote from: j789 on November 10, 2024, 10:19:06 PMAnd of course the West Midlands has such a great history of attracting high quality, smaller companies into the area ...... NOT!
Cheaper tenders mean reduced quality, likely clapped out Darts or E200s running round putting new passengers off trying the bus.
If Mr Parker really cared about our buses, he'd be constantly on at the Labour government to support operators with new vehicle grants so that all local tenders were operated by new (or at the very least nearly new) vehicles. Stipulating 'Euro 6' does equate to quality either, emissions may be lower yet the bus itself can still look unattractive.
I'm so glad the operators with their "likely clapped out Darts or E200s" have gone, it has left the operators with their clapped out Omnilinks, Geminis and Tridents to use instead!
Quote from: Straightlines on November 10, 2024, 11:08:26 PMI'm so glad the operators with their "likely clapped out Darts or E200s" have gone, it has left the operators with their clapped out Omnilinks, Geminis and Tridents to use instead!
Not all omnilinks, Geminis and tridents are 'clapped out', they are just seeing their age
Quote from: Straightlines on November 10, 2024, 11:08:26 PMI'm so glad the operators with their "likely clapped out Darts or E200s" have gone, it has left the operators with their clapped out Omnilinks, Geminis and Tridents to use instead!
Massive difference - one of those operators has maintained their older vehicles to very high engineering standards for their 20+ year life, the cow boys on the other hand clearly spend a fortune on maintaining their vehicles - Not!
The only good thing about franchising will be that those crappy little companies that offer nothing to attract new passengers won't be allowed to operate anymore.
Quote from: j789 on November 11, 2024, 07:45:36 AMMassive difference - one of those operators has maintained their older vehicles to very high engineering standards for their 20+ year life, the cow boys on the other hand clearly spend a fortune on maintaining their vehicles - Not!
The only good thing about franchising will be that those crappy little companies that offer nothing to attract new passengers won't be allowed to operate anymore.
Ah of course. Anyone that isn't a PLC must be a "cowboy" with substandard vehicles, got it!
I think the vast majority of operators that ran Centro / TfWM tenders weren't cowboys, often filling gaps where the almighty PLCs had abandoned for more profitable main road corridors.
So your argument is fundamentally flawed.
Quote from: Straightlines on November 11, 2024, 10:20:03 AMAh of course. Anyone that isn't a PLC must be a "cowboy" with substandard vehicles, got it!
I think the vast majority of operators that ran Centro / TfWM tenders weren't cowboys, often filling gaps where the almighty PLCs had abandoned for more profitable main road corridors.
So your argument is fundamentally flawed.
First off, don't put words into my mouth - I did not say EVERY small company were cowboys! However, I've enough experience in this industry driving in the West Mids for the past three decades to have witnessed many cowboy companies. 1990s they had clapped out Leyland Nationals, 2000s it was lynx, step entrance Darts etc, 2010 it was Darts now the 2020s it's E200s. Its clearly not every company operating those vehicle types - Ludlows back in the day were a great, innovative company - but the common theme of the cowboys is how badly their vehicles are turned out.
Anyone who has actually worked for one of the larger companies in the West Midlands area would say the same thing. This area has had far too many chancer companies who offer nothing to the public. It's funny how companies operating significant numbers of vehicles in the area rarely get called before the traffic commissioner yet many of those companies running only a few buses have seemed too. I wonder why!
Quote from: j789 on November 11, 2024, 05:39:12 PMHowever, I've enough experience in this industry driving
My little interest in anything you had to say finished, about here.
Quote from: Straightlines on November 11, 2024, 05:59:14 PMMy little interest in anything you had to say finished, about here.
Well that's a shame as you clearly are clueless comparing NX to these sort of companies. I'm even thinking your dislike of any alternative viewpoints on such companies is suggesting you are/were involved in such a transport enterprise. Maybe I'm wrong but it's intriguing nonetheless 🧐.
Quote from: j789 on November 11, 2024, 06:03:19 PMWell that's a shame as you clearly are clueless comparing NX to these sort of companies. I'm even thinking your dislike of any alternative viewpoints on such companies is suggesting you are/were involved in such a transport enterprise. Maybe I'm wrong but it's intriguing nonetheless 🧐.
He's not clueless. Unfortunately you're the clueless one in this debate, as usual.
How many times have LandFlight or Kevs been called to PI compared to Diamond? Compare the fleet volume now buddy! Far smaller bus fleet. Nonsense as always from j789.
Quote from: MW on November 11, 2024, 06:06:41 PMHe's not clueless. Unfortunately you're the clueless one in this debate, as usual.
How many times have LandFlight or Kevs been called to PI compared to Diamond? Compare the fleet volume now buddy! Far smaller bus fleet. Nonsense as always from j789.
Argh not heard much from you recently, which company is it your at these days???
And also talking about clueless if you bothered to read anything above you would see I was talking about Straightlines views on National Express (see the big capital N and X I used 🤦). I didn't even mention Diamond so no clue why your are bringing that company up now.
And further was Landflight or Kevs or any such company named as a cowboy - NO! Because they actually use new vehicles, follow timetables and maintain buses to good standards. However, as usual, you don't seem to understand that criticising certain small companies for shoddy practises doesn't mean I am saying it about every small company.
How hard is it that really to understand? Geez 🤯
Quote from: j789 on November 11, 2024, 06:15:06 PMArgh not heard much from you recently, which company is it your at these days???
And also talking about clueless if you bothered to read anything above you would see I was talking about Straightlines views on National Express (see the big capital N and X I used 🤦). I didn't even mention Diamond so no clue why your are bringing that company up now.
And further was Landflight or Kevs or any such company named as a cowboy - NO! Because they actually use new vehicles, follow timetables and maintain buses to good standards. However, as usual, you don't seem to understand that criticising certain small companies for shoddy practises doesn't mean I am saying it about every small company.
How hard is it that really to understand? Geez 🤯
Who are the cowboy operators currently operating TfWM work?
Quote from: MW on November 11, 2024, 08:11:43 PMWho are the cowboy operators currently operating TfWM work?
He may have been thinking of Travel Express (Lets Go) whose e200s certainly aren't the best maintained in my opinion. They were operating the 63/64/65 & 303 tenders until June .
Quote from: MW on November 11, 2024, 08:11:43 PMWho are the cowboy operators currently operating TfWM work?
I thought you were an experienced driver - you should know that contracted work was never the bread and butter of these sort of cowboys.
No, running a couple of minutes in front of a rival company's bus on commercial services was more their mindset - dangerous driving manoeuvres to ensure they get to the stop first. Fortunately many of these companies have long gone to the wall. One particular area is still not free of them though and TfWM weren't blind to that either!
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 11, 2024, 08:28:51 PMHe may have been thinking of Travel Express (Lets Go) whose e200s certainly aren't the best maintained in my opinion. They were operating the 63/64/65 & 303 tenders until June .
There were far worse companies than them in the 1980 and 1990s to be fair to them.
Quote from: j789 on November 11, 2024, 08:37:29 PMThere were far worse companies than them in the 1980 and 1990s to be fair to them.
True.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 11, 2024, 08:28:51 PMHe may have been thinking of Travel Express (Lets Go) whose e200s certainly aren't the best maintained in my opinion. They were operating the 63/64/65 & 303 tenders until June .
The 56, 57s and 58s definitely live up to that comment
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 11, 2024, 10:14:16 PMThe 56, 57s and 58s definitely live up to that comment
They sounded like Sheds and I heard one person a College Student with Nbus Bus pass say he could get any bus back when asked why didn't he get the approaching Let's Go Number 1 rather than moaning at the NX1 being late I believe due to Roadworks in Tettenhall he commented No asked why he said it looks like a big of Nails he actually said another word that wasn't as nice and I think that was one of the afformented buses plus they have that cheap nasty Urban 90 seating, I've had bad backs of those seats going over Speed Humps on Sandwell Travel Darts to put myself through that again
Any updates?
Quote from: Jack D on November 19, 2024, 06:51:23 PMAny updates?
Surely you can answer your own question by looking at this topic and seeing that nobody has posted anything?
Come on, please have a little patience!
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2024, 06:57:52 PMCome on, please have a little patience!
As annoying as the repetition is, there's a valid point there.
We're now at the 6 weeks mark until these changes will kick in, and we currently know... next to
nothing.
These are likely to be fairly major changes too, not just some tweaks to timetables, and people
do rely on these services; services that may well be unrecognisable come January.
The fact that even just the changes to the services can't or haven't been published yet, and even if it is with a disclaimer ("The timetables and operator have not been finalised yet, please check back later for up to date timetables." or something in that vein.), reflects extremely poorly on TfWM.
And this is a problem TfWM have had
before - the January 2023 changes were almost ridiculous in how short notice and how poor quality the information provision was - so for them to make the same mistake again would be emblematic of a far greater problem in the system...
Quote from: Midland 2541 on November 19, 2024, 08:50:23 PMWe're now at the 6 weeks mark until these changes will kick in, and we currently know... next to nothing.
These are likely to be fairly major changes too, not just some tweaks to timetables, and people do rely on these services; services that may well be unrecognisable come January.
New tenders aside, hopefully other changes won't be as widespread as was feared because WMCA approved the Network Support Grant for commercially operated services to be extended from January 1st 2025 until 31st March 2025.
Time will, as ever, tell.
According to Lukeee in the Carolean Coaches thread, they have won the 3 (evenings), 23, 41 and 224
Quote from: B7RLE on November 19, 2024, 09:34:25 PMAccording to Lukeee in the Carolean Coaches thread, they have won the 3 (evenings), 23, 41 and 224
@j789 will be delighted at this news 😂
Quote from: Midland 2541 on November 19, 2024, 08:50:23 PMAs annoying as the repetition is, there's a valid point there.
We're now at the 6 weeks mark until these changes will kick in, and we currently know... next to nothing.
These are likely to be fairly major changes too, not just some tweaks to timetables, and people do rely on these services; services that may well be unrecognisable come January.
The fact that even just the changes to the services can't or haven't been published yet, and even if it is with a disclaimer ("The timetables and operator have not been finalised yet, please check back later for up to date timetables." or something in that vein.), reflects extremely poorly on TfWM.
And this is a problem TfWM have had before - the January 2023 changes were almost ridiculous in how short notice and how poor quality the information provision was - so for them to make the same mistake again would be emblematic of a far greater problem in the system...
I can vouch for the last sentence, I went to Germany over new year's 2023 and I came back to my local route being entirely withdrawn. without knowing what happened.
Quote from: Midland 2541 on November 19, 2024, 08:50:23 PMAs annoying as the repetition is, there's a valid point there.
We're now at the 6 weeks mark until these changes will kick in, and we currently know... next to nothing.
These are likely to be fairly major changes too, not just some tweaks to timetables, and people do rely on these services; services that may well be unrecognisable come January.
The fact that even just the changes to the services can't or haven't been published yet, and even if it is with a disclaimer ("The timetables and operator have not been finalised yet, please check back later for up to date timetables." or something in that vein.), reflects extremely poorly on TfWM.
And this is a problem TfWM have had before - the January 2023 changes were almost ridiculous in how short notice and how poor quality the information provision was - so for them to make the same mistake again would be emblematic of a far greater problem in the system...
My understanding is that tender awards were released to operators on November 4th with operators having 14 days to confirm there acceptance (or otherwise) of the tenders and terms awarded to them. Once this has happened awards will be made public, so hopefully will be this week.
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/#
Some of the new changes are listed here if anyone is interested
So ditching the Alpha routes with numerical numbers , wondering if the Acocks green to airport still on the cards?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 22, 2024, 04:51:44 PMSo ditching the Alpha routes with numerical numbers , wondering if the Acocks green to airport still on the cards?
I'd wait and see how that TfWM page gets updated as it doesn't look to be completed yet.
Yes, it seems the Solihull A-prefixed routes are being renumbered into 6xx series, however it says the A3 is being partly replaced by a new A6 service! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on November 22, 2024, 03:21:48 PMhttps://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/#
Some of the new changes are listed here if anyone is interested
Does anyone know how the 54 (Hamstead Village to Perry Barr) will work now? it says it will serve scott arms and then go to perry barr, but it already terminates at perry barr on the other end? so is it just a circular now? and if it isnt, why not? it basically already is because scott arms and hamstead village by proxy is really not far from perry barr at all. also will it serve scott arms how the old 46 did (via old walsall road) or will it follow the 16 route (via hamstead road and newton road) into scott arms?
it's just extremely unclear how the 54 will work once it reaches Hamstead Village now, and all plausible ways just seem stupid. if the route were to serve scott arms (we don't even know HOW it will serve it once it hits hamstead village) and then go to perry barr, as the changelog says, it's essentially a circular route, but they've not called it as such at all.
Quote from: jasmine on November 22, 2024, 05:34:39 PMDoes anyone know how the 54 (Hamstead Village to Perry Barr) will work now? it says it will serve scott arms and then go to perry barr, but it already terminates at perry barr on the other end? so is it just a circular now? and if it isnt, why not? it basically already is because scott arms and hamstead village by proxy is really not far from perry barr at all. also will it serve scott arms how the old 46 did (via old walsall road) or will it follow the 16 route (via hamstead road and newton road) into scott arms?
it's just extremely unclear how the 54 will work once it reaches Hamstead Village now, and all plausible ways just seem stupid. if the route were to serve scott arms (we don't even know HOW it will serve it once it hits hamstead village) and then go to perry barr, as the changelog says, it's essentially a circular route, but they've not called it as such at all.
It'll probably just extend via the old 61 route to Great Barr from Hamstead Village, running Great Barr to Perry Barr via Hamstead Village. The notes on the 61 say it's withdrawn from this section and it offers the 54 as an alternative service.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 22, 2024, 05:54:13 PMIt'll probably just extend via the old 61 route to Great Barr from Hamstead Village, running Great Barr to Perry Barr via Hamstead Village. The notes on the 61 say it's withdrawn from this section and it offers the 54 as an alternative service.
Ah you're right, I completely missed the 61's notes, it makes a lot more sense now and it also says 54 Scott Arms to Perry Barr so as you say yeah, it will just go up Old Walsall Road and terminate there, and will not go to Perry Barr or Newton and Hamstead Road.
Old Walsall Road has had too many revisions to it to count on one hand since the 46 was withdrawn, much to the residents of Hamstead's dismay, it's almost like it shouldn't have been taken away in the first place, if even now, 2 years later, the road and replacement services still haven't been established.
I thought the 229 had returned to its normal route
Is it fair to assume tenders, for example Banga's 53, NX evenings 15 / Sundays15A, that were on the list are remaining with the current operator as no changes are currently listed?
A couple of E200s I'm guessing will be surplus and moved onto other routes with NX no longer operating the PN 14/14A/24 CV 2 and WB 54.
Also Diamond will no longer operate into Solihull anymore once these changes take effect.
Quote from: Jay71 on November 22, 2024, 07:01:33 PMI thought the 229 had returned to its normal route
Yes it did.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on November 22, 2024, 07:09:29 PMIs it fair to assume tenders, for example Banga's 53, NX evenings 15 / Sundays15A, that were on the list are remaining with the current operator as no changes are currently listed?
As I mentioned earlier, I'd hold back from making assumptions just yet as I don't believe that TfWM have updated that page fully yet.
Quote from: 2206 on November 22, 2024, 07:36:08 PMA couple of E200s I'm guessing will be surplus and moved onto other routes with NX no longer operating the PN 14/14A/24 CV 2 and WB 54.
NX have picked up the 22 Bearwood to Oldbury, which I assume would only need short E200s. Will be interesting to see how they work that.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on November 22, 2024, 07:09:29 PMIs it fair to assume tenders, for example Banga's 53, NX evenings 15 / Sundays15A, that were on the list are remaining with the current operator as no changes are currently listed?
Some tenders haven't been awarded. Some have been merged with others.
Looks like
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on November 22, 2024, 03:21:48 PMhttps://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/#
Some of the new changes are listed here if anyone is interested
As the A1/A2/A15/A12 are all being run by landflight,wouldn't that mean Landflight are going to have to invest in some more buses as it says they will run every 30 mins?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 22, 2024, 08:06:47 PMLooks likeAs the A1/A2/A15/A12 are all being run by landflight,wouldn't that mean Landflight are going to have to invest in some more buses as it says they will run every 30 mins?
All depends on what the new routes and timetables look like. Landflight also lose the A3 which is being withdrawn. Depending on how the services are interworked, might not need any additional buses. But I'm sure this will all have been taken into consideration when bidding on these contracts.
Are there likely to be non-tender related changes in the new year?
Some of these changes are quite interesting, I like the idea of using the 6xx series again, I've always thought that bus services that are 'entirely' subsidised by TfWM should all be in the 6xx series and advertised to that fact if you see a service in the 6xx it means use it or lose it, it would make passengers more aware. I am however struggling with the use of number 188, I don't know where that has come from., it doesn't make much sense
Surely any service is 'Use it or lose it' irrespective of the number?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on November 22, 2024, 03:21:48 PMhttps://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/#
Some of the new changes are listed here if anyone is interested
Looks like the 41 is going back to how the old 411 was. Wednesbury to West Bromwich
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 23, 2024, 05:08:55 AMSome of these changes are quite interesting, I like the idea of using the 6xx series again, I've always thought that bus services that are 'entirely' subsidised by TfWM should all be in the 6xx series and advertised to that fact if you see a service in the 6xx it means use it or lose it, it would make passengers more aware. I am however struggling with the use of number 188, I don't know where that has come from., it doesn't make much sense
It reminds me of when the former 69 service (Brandwood End to Shirley) got 'chopped up' and became what is now the 169 between Kings Heath and Solihull.
The 88 is being revised and extended, thus becomes the 188. When you look at it that way, it sort of makes sense.
I suspect that when the time comes to franchise everything, and the whole network gets revised, we'll see a lot of routes get renumbered. But I don't think it will be done in any 'logical' way, for anyone dreaming of a return to 2xx, 3xx, 4xx etc.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 22, 2024, 04:51:44 PMSo ditching the Alpha routes with numerical numbers , wondering if the Acocks green to airport still on the cards?
The constant renumbering of routes does nothing apart from confuse everybody. And since one of the reason for ditching certain groups of numbers was it was easier to remember two digits than three, have people's memories suddenly got better?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 23, 2024, 05:08:55 AMSome of these changes are quite interesting, I like the idea of using the 6xx series again, I've always thought that bus services that are 'entirely' subsidised by TfWM should all be in the 6xx series and advertised to that fact if you see a service in the 6xx it means use it or lose it, it would make passengers more aware. I am however struggling with the use of number 188, I don't know where that has come from., it doesn't make much sense
Nothing is entirely subsidised by TfWM. The operator bears an element of risk when calculating passenger revenue, as part of costing a tender.
Entirely subsidised by TfWM would mean that all onboard fares went directly to TfWM rather than the Operator.
Quote from: Gareth on November 23, 2024, 11:11:25 AMThe constant renumbering of routes does nothing apart from confuse everybody. And since one of the reason for ditching certain groups of numbers was it was easier to remember two digits than three, have people's memories suddenly got better?
It's almost like they change their minds every couple of decades
Noticed Diamond have regained the 65 they Operated it a couple of years ago I believe the first couple of journeys on the Veichle operated on the 310 or the last journeys, wonder what the 54, 54A will use and the 637 will presumably use a Mellor or new Merc
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on November 23, 2024, 02:00:27 PMNoticed Diamond have regained the 65 they Operated it a couple of years ago I believe the first couple of journeys on the Veichle operated on the 310 or the last journeys, wonder what the 54, 54A will use and the 637 will presumably use a Mellor or new Merc
The West Brom 54 most likely won't be a Mellor or Merc, a SWB vehicle would be better suited, Solo's probably.
Quote from: Gareth on November 23, 2024, 11:11:25 AMThe constant renumbering of routes does nothing apart from confuse everybody. And since one of the reason for ditching certain groups of numbers was it was easier to remember two digits than three, have people's memories suddenly got better?
I would understand the renumbering, eg A1 to 601, if there were any meaningful changes to the service.
But both the A1 and A2 are being renumbered "for the sake of it"; apart from the change of operator, there is no change to route or timetable.
Surely it would be more cost-effective to keep the existing route numbers? Because after all there is now an additional cost incurred by having to print off a load of new vinyls for the bus stop flags, as well as print off new timetable posters. And then pay the contractor (Mitie?) to go around and replace them all.
What a waste of time and money, especially since these are already subsidised services.
Quote from: Stu on November 23, 2024, 04:15:41 PMI would understand the renumbering, eg A1 to 601, if there were any meaningful changes to the service.
But both the A1 and A2 are being renumbered "for the sake of it"; apart from the change of operator, there is no change to route or timetable.
Surely it would be more cost-effective to keep the existing route numbers? Because after all there is now an additional cost incurred by having to print off a load of new vinyls for the bus stop flags, as well as print off new timetable posters. And then pay the contractor (Mitie?) to go around and replace them all.
What a waste of time and money, especially since these are already subsidised services.
Maybe it's part of a longer vision linked to the new mayors franchising plan, I would like think they are strategically planning but some how I doubt it.
It will be interesting to see how the A12 and A15 get combined together as the new 630.
There's a nice nod there to the old service number 30, which I used to catch when I lived in Acocks Green. How times change though, back in 2008, NX ran it using Metrobuses, it was every half hour during the day and every twenty minutes during the morning peak between 7:30am and 8:30am. Those double-decks would be filled to capacity, mostly with school-kids going to Langley and Blossomfield Schools.
I guess from Acocks Green village, it will just extend to Shirley station via the current A15 route.
It reminds me of a suggestion I made some years ago for an Acocks Green-Solihull circular route. From The Baldwin, rather than going on to Shirley station, it then replaced that part of the 5 route via Shirley and Monkspath to Solihull.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 23, 2024, 04:55:04 PMMaybe it's part of a longer vision linked to the new mayors franchising plan, I would like think they are strategically planning but some how I doubt it.
Part of me thinks the franchising plan may be more advanced than has been let on, so you might be right about that.
But then again, these routes will probably end up getting renumbered again in a couple of years time.
At least the companies that produce the vinyls and posters for the bus stops are being kept busy! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Stu on November 23, 2024, 05:51:11 PMPart of me thinks the franchising plan may be more advanced than has been let on, so you might be right about that.
But then again, these routes will probably end up getting renumbered again in a couple of years time.
At least the companies that produce the vinyls and posters for the bus stops are being kept busy! :rolleyes:
Especially when mistakes are made such as printing both the old and new timetables on the WN25!
Are there changes to the 40 Wednesbury to West Bromwich as when you look at TfWM it says operated by Diamond. When you look at 30 service it advised use 40 service.
Does this mean from January NX won't run the 40 service.
Quote from: Stu on November 23, 2024, 05:28:57 PMIt will be interesting to see how the A12 and A15 get combined together as the new 630.
There's a nice nod there to the old service number 30
Also, I wonder if the choice of 664/665 is a nod to the more distant past, as West Midlands PTE services 164/165 ran to Wythall in the 1970s.
Quote from: wembley86 on November 23, 2024, 06:48:01 PMAre there changes to the 40 Wednesbury to West Bromwich as when you look at TfWM it says operated by Diamond. When you look at 30 service it advised use 40 service.
Does this mean from January NX won't run the 40 service.
Thats what it implies but given that TfWM are not always reliable when it come to accurate info, I'd wait and see.
QuoteSo ditching the Alpha routes with numerical numbers , wondering if the Acocks green to airport still on the cards?
Quite eager to know about that one, I see how their trying to boost the connectivity back to BHX, starting with the return of the 97A. I can only guess landflight will operate this, but who knows?
Quote from: BBS on November 24, 2024, 11:51:17 AMQuite eager to know about that one, I see how their trying to boost the connectivity back to BHX, starting with the return of the 97A. I can only guess landflight will operate this, but who knows?
I wouldn't imagine so, the amount of buses needed would be a lot more than they have at the moment. They may obviously buy new buses/used buses but like you said, who knows.
Also mentions about the 4H does this mean diamond taking on the evening and Sunday journeys?
Quote from: Ash on November 24, 2024, 12:03:24 PMAlso mentions about the 4H does this mean diamond taking on the evening and Sunday journeys?
Or could be that Diamond will operate just the tender for the evening journeys but until details are released, any comments about what could happen is just speculation.
Quote from: BBS on November 24, 2024, 11:51:17 AMQuite eager to know about that one, I see how their trying to boost the connectivity back to BHX, starting with the return of the 97A. I can only guess landflight will operate this, but who knows?
No changes to the A1 other than the operator. A12/A15 becomes the 630 with a revised Solihull to Shirley route.
So I think no.
Quote from: 2206 on November 24, 2024, 01:28:51 PMNo changes to the A1 other than the operator. A12/A15 becomes the 630.
So I think no.
A1 becomes the 601
If there getting rid of the 'A' routes what happens to the A9?
Quote from: Jack D on November 24, 2024, 07:00:45 PMIf there getting rid of the 'A' routes what happens to the A9?
They are just renumbering them? Same with the a10 when they get around to it.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 24, 2024, 07:27:08 PMThey are just renumbering them? Same with the a10 when they get around to it.
They are introducing a new A6 Solihull to Dorridge as well.
Quote from: 2206 on November 24, 2024, 11:09:43 PMThey are introducing a new A6 Solihull to Dorridge as well.
That confuses me, why do we need this
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 25, 2024, 07:14:39 AMThat confuses me, why do we need this
Have you actually looked at the TfWM Upcoming Service Changes page?
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/
The A6 is needed as part of the replacement of the A3 service.
Quote from: Stu on November 25, 2024, 07:20:44 AMThe A6 is needed as part of the replacement of the A3 service.
Oh sorry I thought the 188 was the same thing.
It seems the 44, 45, 67 have still to be announced
And the 77/77A changes
I've just looked at the map on TfWM for 41a and it looks like it follows the 67 route from Wednesbury to friar park before heading to West Bromwich.
Coventry bus user posted the routes for the new routes, just wondering, how come the A12/A15 combined route isn't going to Shirley station anymore? Anybody have any ideas?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 25, 2024, 05:24:17 PMCoventry bus user posted the routes for the new routes, just wondering, how come the A12/A15 combined route isn't going to Shirley station anymore? Anybody have any ideas?
Because it would add an extra vehicle.
The A12 and A15 have (very efficiently) been combined to maintain a 30 min frequency throughout and utilise 3 buses, rather than the 4 buses that were being proposed in the original tender.
Quote from: Stu on November 22, 2024, 07:56:21 PMNX have picked up the 22 Bearwood to Oldbury, which I assume would only need short E200s. Will be interesting to see how they work that.
I'm assuming West Bromwich would be taking this route?
Quote from: BusDriverBosh on November 25, 2024, 07:23:10 PMI'm assuming West Bromwich would be taking this route?
Last time West Brom had it, it was 700s on there and put on the specials rota and was only 1 bus with 2 drivers a day if I recall.
Quote from: BusDriverBosh on November 25, 2024, 07:23:10 PMI'm assuming West Bromwich would be taking this route?
Seems the obvious outcome, only needs a little bus and WB will have some spare when they lose the 54.
No change to route or timetable, Diamond currently run it with one vehicle, I would guess that NX might sandwich it between 48A journeys at the start and end of the day.
Did I read that £55 million worth of tendered services are up for grabs ??
And, - does anyone know if First (Worcester) has submitted (for) any tenders ??
Ta.
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 25, 2024, 05:24:17 PMCoventry bus user posted the routes for the new routes, just wondering, how come the A12/A15 combined route isn't going to Shirley station anymore? Anybody have any ideas?
Quote from: MW on November 25, 2024, 06:33:20 PMBecause it would add an extra vehicle.
The A12 and A15 have (very efficiently) been combined to maintain a 30 min frequency throughout and utilise 3 buses, rather than the 4 buses that were being proposed in the original tender.
I would also hazard a guess that passenger loading data would suggest that not many people use that service to/from Shirley station.
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 25, 2024, 05:24:17 PMCoventry bus user posted the routes for the new routes
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on November 25, 2024, 04:52:18 PMhttps://eu.remix.com/project/b977dc28?latlng=52.40404,-1.77506,12.146
Interesting
There's an article about it on BBC news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207v4nrnldo
Quote from: wembley86 on November 26, 2024, 11:37:35 AMThere's an article about it on BBC news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207v4nrnldo
With a rather sensationalist headline to rival Birmingham Live. Still, clicks and engagement I guess.
Some on facebook commenting on the news feed about these changes as TfWM consulted passengers about cutting services.
Not sure who the bigger fools are, ones who post in comments sections or ones that actually read them
Quote from: Stu on November 25, 2024, 07:20:44 AMHave you actually looked at the TfWM Upcoming Service Changes page?
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/
The A6 is needed as part of the replacement of the A3 service.
hand Dorridge to the railway then ?
A3 hourly until 14.30 how do you get back home ? (Train)
188 Hourly pathetic
people will just switch to Rail as the frequency is better
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on November 27, 2024, 04:11:35 PMhand Dorridge to the railway then ?
A3 hourly until 14.30 how do you get back home ? (Train)
188 Hourly pathetic
people will just switch to Rail as the frequency is better
It's hourly at the moment. It looks like Bentley Heath will be getting 2 buses an hour over the 1 bus per hour it gets at the moment... have I misunderstood this?
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on November 27, 2024, 04:11:35 PMhand Dorridge to the railway then ?
A3 hourly until 14.30 how do you get back home ? (Train)
188 Hourly pathetic
people will just switch to Rail as the frequency is better
The A3 is replaced with the 188 and A6 services.
Dorridge is also served by the A7/A8 circulars.
I see the TfWM changes page says the A6 will be hourly between 9:30am and 2:30pm, but the interactive map has the A6 as every 30 minutes all week, so perhaps there is some error somewhere.
https://eu.remix.com/project/b977dc28?latlng=52.40404,-1.77506,12.146
Is the A6 going by solihull sixth form college cus I need to use this to get there
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on November 27, 2024, 10:13:16 PMIs the A6 going by solihull sixth form college cus I need to use this to get there
You'll need to take the 188 or the 5 I think.
The route map posted above says the A6 will take the Warwick Road to Knowle.
Quote from: Stu on November 27, 2024, 08:22:06 PMThe A3 is replaced with the 188 and A6 services.
Dorridge is also served by the A7/A8 circulars.
I see the TfWM changes page says the A6 will be hourly between 9:30am and 2:30pm, but the interactive map has the A6 as every 30 minutes all week, so perhaps there is some error somewhere.
https://eu.remix.com/project/b977dc28?latlng=52.40404,-1.77506,12.146
i'm so glad i dont live there anymore, and visits are now very infrequent, only i want to see my sister scurry away like a scalded cat, it was so much easier in my day 182 & 151 plus 153 three times day, even the B & K were good services, its just ridiculous to have Dorridge only served until 14:30 the railway will benefit from this & the buses wont get the numbers back, believe me, i know what the residents around there are like....
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on November 28, 2024, 01:21:39 AMits just ridiculous to have Dorridge only served until 14:30
I'm sure the 188 A7/A8 will be serving it until the early evening at least. Assuming the last A7/A8 timetable has the same last journey times that's 9PM.
You sound like your moaning for the sake of it.
So when are the rest of the 5th January going to be announced.
Diamond bus website updated with their changes including a new peak 50A Redditch to Birmingham service
Quote from: Ash on November 28, 2024, 09:42:13 PMDiamond bus website updated with their changes including a new peak 50A Redditch to Birmingham service
I believe Redditch depot will be taking over full operation of the 50, I think there might be other changes to inc increased running time / Pvr / frequency increase.
Is there any update on the 45 Walsall to West Bromwich was up for tender.
Quote from: wembley86 on November 29, 2024, 02:24:18 PMIs there any update on the 45 Walsall to West Bromwich was up for tender.
I would assume that any tenders not listed on the service changes page have been retained by the current operator.
I know it's the 'legal' name for the company, but why have Diamond refered to 'West Midlands Travel' on their changes page, rather than 'National Express West Midlands', as thats been the public name for a few years now?
Quote from: winston on November 29, 2024, 02:00:51 PMI believe Redditch depot will be taking over full operation of the 50, I think there might be other changes to inc increased running time / Pvr / frequency increase.
Seems odd to introduce this new service now just as the £2 fare is being scrapped. Had it been done last year some people would definitely have used it compared to the train as there would be a sizeable saving using the bus over the train. However, if the fare is £3 single (or even a slightly cheaper return/day ticket) people won't change from a high frequency train onto a bus that will get stuck in traffic at the M42 J3 island, then all the way into Brum.
It's a good idea but I just can't see this lasting as the train frequency is just to high to compete.
Quote from: j789 on November 29, 2024, 05:14:16 PMSeems odd to introduce this new service now just as the £2 fare is being scrapped. Had it been done last year some people would definitely have used it compared to the train as there would be a sizeable saving using the bus over the train. However, if the fare is £3 single (or even a slightly cheaper return/day ticket) people won't change from a high frequency train onto a bus that will get stuck in traffic at the M42 J3 island, then all the way into Brum.
It's a good idea but I just can't see this lasting as the train frequency is just to high to compete.
The 50A is being provided with support from Worcestershire CC through BSIP funding. It's a peak time service, probably just a couple of journeys in the mornings and early evenings, not all day. I would imagine Diamond will slot it around 150 off-peak journeys, or buses will go onto the 50 to save a bit of dead-running.
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/ww-service-enhancements-january-2025/
Not obvious why the 50A would be subject to BSIP funding when those journeys clearly just consist of placement journeys associated with Diamond's Redditch garage fully operating their 50 commercial service
Are there ny more tender changes to be announced, for example the rumour that Bus Link had gained the 77, 77A, X15?
When in December do tfwm usually publish all the tender results?
Quote from: Busmapper on November 29, 2024, 07:50:41 PMNot obvious why the 50A would be subject to BSIP funding when those journeys clearly just consist of placement journeys associated with Diamond's Redditch garage fully operating their 50 commercial service
I think it's the Kidderminster 3, 8 Redditch 12 subject to BSIP funding which are having enhancements.
Whenever I have seen the 3 out of Kidderminster it often has full loads on the B7RLEs so I think it will be well received.
It probably makes sense to run those journeys in service if they are going that way anyway.
https://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-11/Bus%20service%20enhancements.pdf
Quote from: Busmapper on November 29, 2024, 07:50:41 PMNot obvious why the 50A would be subject to BSIP funding when those journeys clearly just consist of placement journeys associated with Diamond's Redditch garage fully operating their 50 commercial service
I'm just going by what it says on the Diamond website:
QuoteDiamond Bus are pleased to be working in partnership with Worcestershire County Council to bring a number of service enhancements to passengers in Redditch and Kidderminster in the New Year.
The improvements are being delivered as part of the regions Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP), which aims to further improve bus provision in the county.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on November 29, 2024, 07:55:18 PMAre there ny more tender changes to be announced, for example the rumour that Bus Link had gained the 77, 77A, X15?
The TfWM service changes page has not been updated since 22nd November, so as I posted earlier, any tendered services that are not listed there can be assumed to have been retained by the current operator.
'Rumours' are not the same as 'facts'. :rolleyes:
Quote from: frostjay974 on November 29, 2024, 08:13:45 PMWhen in December do tfwm usually publish all the tender results?
No idea to be honest, probably not until January though once the new contracts come into place. When they do, they will be listed here:
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/who-we-are/what-we-do/bus-services/bus-tenders/
The new 50/50A timetable can be found here https://www.diamondbuses.com/media/5594/50_50a-timetable-050124.pdf
I have been notified of a change on the Solihull area map, seems there is also going to be a 631 service now between Solihull and Acocks Green, replacing some other parts of the withdrawn A15 service.
https://eu.remix.com/project/b977dc28?latlng=52.40404,-1.77506,12.146
TfWM website hasn't been updated though.
QuoteI have been notified of a change on the Solihull area map, seems there is also going to be a 631 service now between Solihull and Acocks Green, replacing some other parts of the withdrawn A15 service.
https://eu.remix.com/project/b977dc28?latlng=52.40404,-1.77506,12.146
TfWM website hasn't been updated though.
What about the other route that was proposed to go from Acocks green to the airport?
Quote from: BBS on December 10, 2024, 09:21:16 PMWhat about the other route that was proposed to go from Acocks green to the airport?
I believe that was only ever an 'alternative' specification, and it looks like that wasn't taken up.
Time for me to be Mr Exclusive ✨✨✨
Here's some information for the Jan25 timetable changes, cba to do more :)
96 changes
Interesting to see the 96 is loosing 2430 from Kingstanding and 2430 from airport and is no long serving the business park. It's also gaining an extra trip in the morning on the Sunday (0540 from Kingstanding, 0620 from Airport).
According to Google Maps and TfWM timetables:
PQ1 - 934/935/936/937/937A
PQ2 - 51/X51/907/907A
with those buses stopping at new stops along the tram tracks
45/47/97/97A no longer stopping at Square Peg
61/63 going back to Pirory Queensway :)
97/97A using MS7 stop (current 23/24 on cars lane)
4/4A using MS5 stop (current 97/97A on cars lane)
FD using MS6 stop :)
23/24/(maybe 822 didn't) no longer using cars lane, and stopping at MS21
65/66/67/68/X64 moving to PQ9 (current 33/51/907 stop)
Assuming the X21/X22 will go to PQ8 with the 61/63?
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 11, 2024, 10:43:35 PMAssuming the X21/X22 will go to PQ8 with the 61/63?
X21/X22 has no timetable change, so assuming keeping it as it is.
QuoteTime for me to be Mr Exclusive ✨✨✨
Here's some information for the Jan25 timetable changes, cba to do more :)
96 changes
Interesting to see the 96 is loosing 2430 from Kingstanding and 2430 from airport and is no long serving the business park. It's also gaining an extra trip in the morning on the Sunday (0540 from Kingstanding, 0620 from Airport).
According to Google Maps and TfWM timetables:
PQ1 - 934/935/936/937/937A
PQ2 - 51/X51/907/907A
with those buses stopping at new stops along the tram tracks
45/47/97/97A no longer stopping at Square Peg
61/63 going back to Pirory Queensway :)
97/97A using MS7 stop (current 23/24 on cars lane)
4/4A using MS5 stop (current 97/97A on cars lane)
FD using MS6 stop :)
23/24/(maybe 822 didn't) no longer using cars lane, and stopping at MS21
65/66/67/68/X64 moving to PQ9 (current 33/51/907 (http://tel:33/51/907) stop)
PQ1 and PQ2 are the new stops opposing are they?
Quote from: BBS on December 11, 2024, 11:02:15 PMPQ1 and PQ2 are the new stops opposing are they?
Yeah the ones outside savers/eat4less
QuoteYeah the ones outside savers/eat4less
Ah those new ones, appreciate it
Why can't the 33 51 etc go back the way it was before the changes
Quote from: Solo1 on December 11, 2024, 11:43:29 PMWhy can't the 33 51 etc go back the way it was before the changes
Why can't it go this way? The way those services will go is the route they did prior go July 2012.
I'm happy they are being moved off Priory Queensway and serving more of the Centre again, also nice to see the overbussed Stratford Road stop will soon be no more.
QuoteWhy can't it go this way? The way those services will go is the route they did prior go July 2012.
I'm happy they are being moved off Priory Queensway and serving more of the Centre again, also nice to see the overbussed Stratford Road stop will soon be no more.
Puts the abandoning buses issue to rest too, not many services serving that stop now so even if a bus is left there it won't put too much pressure
The 33/51 and limited stop services also look to be serving MS9 too.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on December 11, 2024, 10:54:07 PMX21/X22 has no timetable change, so assuming keeping it as it is.
Surely not. Probably just not appeared yet.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on December 11, 2024, 11:14:32 PMYeah the ones outside savers/eat4less
Is Albert Street reopening as well then?
Left at the bottom of Bull Street then down Albert Street?
Quote from: 2206 on December 12, 2024, 01:35:27 AMIs Albert Street reopening as well then?
Left at the bottom of Bull Street then down Albert Street?
It'd seem so with stop MS21 and MS22 being on it.
Jan Change:
87A being withdrawn, all services to be ran as 87
Feb Change:
NXC51 being withdrawn, Stagecoach will run a 51 service on Sundays between Uni Hosp & Arena Tesco
67 & 74A being merged together for 674
77/77A/X15 also being ran by Stevensons
New timetables commencing 5th January are now available at the TfWM website.
City stop changes has been posted
Moor Street Queensway | Transport for West Midlands (https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/major-roadworks-and-events/eastside-birmingham-city-centre/moor-street-queensway/)
I am very relieved that the 907/33/934-7 won't be going via the Law Courts again, that used be terrible and very time consuming and would leave the bus lane under Lancaster Circus not used and redundant. I would of preferred the 907 staying where it is but I'm fairly satisfied with this.
Does TFWM even know their own changes that they made? Showing that the 2,3,4,4A,5 and 6 are all moving to MS3, when it's 2,3 moving to MS3 only, and 4/4A to MS5
When will the X3, X4, X5, X14 & X15 revert back to their original stop PQ3 from the temporary stop CS1?
Quote from: jamesX4 on December 20, 2024, 05:33:43 PMWhen will the X3, X4, X5, X14 & X15 revert back to their original stop PQ3 from the temporary stop CS1?
PQ11 and CS1 are probably the permanent stops now.
Quote from: jamesX4 on December 20, 2024, 05:33:43 PMWhen will the X3, X4, X5, X14 & X15 revert back to their original stop PQ3 from the temporary stop CS1?
Personally doubt they will be moved back there. Most likely stay where they've been for 3 years, or only place I would see them move too is the current Lichfield Road stop across the road as that has a bigger bay and to do the current route that Perry Barr services use.
Quote from: 2206 on December 20, 2024, 05:38:30 PMPQ11 and CS1 are probably the permanent stops now.
I don't see why services from the South West of Birmingham (23 & 24) use PQ3 when services from the North East of Birmingham (X3,X4,X5 etc.) can only just reach the edge of the city centre (CS1). I suppose it is better than the Colmore Circus terminus (102,103,104).
Quote from: jamesX4 on December 20, 2024, 06:30:06 PMI don't see why services from the South West of Birmingham (23 & 24) use PQ3 when services from the North East of Birmingham (X3,X4,X5 etc.) can only just reach the edge of the city centre (CS1). I suppose it is better than the Colmore Circus terminus (102,103,104).
The X3/X4/X5 etc stop at PQ11 on inbound journeys to unload, hardly the "edge of the city centre".
Quote from: Stu on December 20, 2024, 06:39:46 PMThe X3/X4/X5 etc stop at PQ11 on inbound journeys to unload, hardly the "edge of the city centre".
It's certainly not as convenient as MS13 & PQ3.
Quote from: jamesX4 on December 20, 2024, 06:46:29 PMIt's certainly not as convenient as MS13 & PQ3.
PQ11 is literally around the corner from MS13, PQ3 is a few minute walk up the hill.
How much more convenient do you want it to be? The current arrangements for the Sutton services works better in regards of reliability and getting in and out of the City.
The 23/24 have been stopping outside the Square Peg for ages now and that's before they was last put there again, they served it for a few years before it was closed in 2021.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 24, 2024, 07:27:08 PMThey are just renumbering them? Same with the a10 when they get around to it.
Are they definitely changing the A9 number?
Quote from: Tibby on December 30, 2024, 07:53:49 PMAre they definitely changing the A9 number?
No, the A9 is not being changed at all.
Quote from: Stu on November 25, 2024, 08:10:31 PMI would also hazard a guess that passenger loading data would suggest that not many people use that service to/from Shirley station.
Everytime I see the A15 it has 0 passengers, the 630 might help though as there are new connections being created
Quote from: Stu on December 20, 2024, 06:39:46 PMThe X3/X4/X5 etc stop at PQ11 on inbound journeys to unload, hardly the "edge of the city centre".
I'm sorry to get this discussion going again. But as someone who uses X3/4/5, 110 for work. When I change buses in the city at night. I do not feel safe walking to colmore row. If they were to stop at the square peg like before. I wouldn't feel as anxious as I'd miss out some 'anti-social' groups... at B&M and corporation street. Although that's how many people feel, we can't all have it the same way obviously.
Quote from: JosephR on January 02, 2025, 12:00:31 AMI'm sorry to get this discussion going again. But as someone who uses X3/4/5, 110 for work. When I change buses in the city at night. I do not feel safe walking to colmore row. If they were to stop at the square peg like before. I wouldn't feel as anxious as I'd miss out some 'anti-social' groups... at B&M and corporation street. Although that's how many people feel, we can't all have it the same way obviously.
That made me almost chuckle to myself. As someone who has caught late night buses outside B&M for many years, it's perfectly fine. It's bright, it's open space. Maybe the odd beggar or whif of weed. That's all. One of the worst places for anti social behaviour? The Square Peg! Outside the doors, around the bus stop and also the two new stops opposite.
Quote from: Gareth on January 02, 2025, 12:34:28 AMThat made me almost chuckle to myself. As someone who has caught late night buses outside B&M for many years, it's perfectly fine. It's bright, it's open space. Maybe the odd beggar or whif of weed. That's all. One of the worst places for anti social behaviour? The Square Peg! Outside the doors, around the bus stop and also the two new stops opposite.
Please don't take this the wrong way at all. I saw someone else mention the same thing I had, on another post. I couldn't agree more, that's my opinion. I don't see it as funny, when it comes down to people genuinely feeling uncomfortable. Yes sometimes it may be nothing to worry about, but we don't all feel that way. The square peg has changed since its route clientele had in my opinion - something that can be changed back.
Quote from: JosephR on January 02, 2025, 12:45:38 AMPlease don't take this the wrong way at all. I saw someone else mention the same thing I had, on another post. I couldn't agree more, that's my opinion. I don't see it as funny, when it comes down to people genuinely feeling uncomfortable. Yes sometimes it may be nothing to worry about, but we don't all feel that way. The square peg has changed since its route clientele had in my opinion - something that can be changed back.
The anti social behavior in certain city centre locations has nothing to do with 'route clientele'. So changing a bus stop for a service to Chelmsley Wood or West Heath for example to one to Sutton Coldfield will do nothing because the 'anti social groups' aren't normally there catching buses.
Bus tenders have been released
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/hb4lduci/statutory-information-january-2025.pdf
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on January 03, 2025, 05:46:22 PMBus tenders have been released
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/hb4lduci/statutory-information-january-2025.pdf
Note on there the 77 is 'on hold' will still be NXWM E200s on there next week.
On the TfWM tenders page is says Carolean Coaches has taken the 15/A Merry Hill Centre to Wolverhampton. There is no details on TfWM service changes or NXWM service updates, is it his a typo error.
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2025, 06:34:09 PMNote on there the 77 is 'on hold' will still be NXWM E200s on there next week.
That's not happening until end of February, according to TfWM's website?
Quote from: woody38 on January 03, 2025, 06:42:15 PMOn the TfWM tenders page is says Carolean Coaches has taken the 15/A Merry Hill Centre to Wolverhampton. There is no details on TfWM service changes or NXWM service updates, is it his a typo error.
No, if you look at the document you'll see that one is also "on hold".
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on January 03, 2025, 05:46:22 PMBus tenders have been released
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/hb4lduci/statutory-information-january-2025.pdf
Someone was in fantasy land with some of the "highest bids" !
Quote from: metrocity on January 03, 2025, 07:06:39 PMSomeone was in fantasy land with some of the "highest bids" !
At first thought, I assumed it was the annual figures, but that wouldn't make sense either!
Quote from: metrocity on January 03, 2025, 07:06:39 PMSomeone was in fantasy land with some of the "highest bids" !
As long as no-one is in Fantasy Land with the lowest!
Are those higher figures for bids made in a package bid for multiple routes as several are exactly the same for the highest bid? Seems crazy on a few if not.
I would say though that some of those low bids must have very little profit margin in, particularly when new Euro 6 vehicles rental, fuel and staffing costs are thrown in. It certainly won't be a surprise if, even within 6 months, several of those very low bids are given back to TfWM (or at least need to be renegotiated) by certain operators as the costs will prove ultimately too high.
Quote from: woody38 on January 03, 2025, 06:42:15 PMOn the TfWM tenders page is says Carolean Coaches has taken the 15/A Merry Hill Centre to Wolverhampton. There is no details on TfWM service changes or NXWM service updates, is it his a typo error.
Is that just for the Sunday and evening service though? The lowest bid of £2000 a week for 7 days seems ridiculously low otherwise.
QuoteBus tenders have been released
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/hb4lduci/statutory-information-january-2025.pdf
A shame about the 615 and S66, was quite interesting to see how a service would've performed to BHX from Acocks
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on January 03, 2025, 05:46:22 PMBus tenders have been released
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/hb4lduci/statutory-information-january-2025.pdf
15 from Wolverhampton to merry hill being operated by carolean is very interesting
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on January 04, 2025, 01:53:35 PM15 from Wolverhampton to merry hill being operated by carolean is very interesting
Only if it actually happens, as I pointed out to someone else it states "on hold".
Quote from: Stu on January 04, 2025, 02:14:00 PMOnly if it actually happens, as I pointed out to someone else it states "on hold".
And it would only be the daily evening journeys I would think which were previously operated by Diamond (plus the Sunday daytimes) as the majority is commercial.
I suspect its on hold as Carolean do not currently have the vehicles to run it - while I can't comment for evening 15s, Sunday 15As would not cope on an E200
Quote from: B7RLE on January 04, 2025, 05:08:17 PMI suspect its on hold as Carolean do not currently have the vehicles to run it - while I can't comment for evening 15s, Sunday 15As would not cope on an E200
There could be any number of reasons why a contract award is 'on hold', that one may be for the same reasons why the 77A/X15 contract awarded to Stevensons (Bus Link?) shows as 'on hold' although TfWM have already announced that this starts from end of February on their service changes page.
I also note that another contract 'on hold' is for the 76 (Solihull to Northfield) showing as awarded to NX; I presume this is for the late evening and Sunday journeys, and is possibly related to the delay in getting the rest of the electric buses into service at YW.
Well done to TFWM for still not changing flags even though changes come effect tomorrow
Give them another six months, and they *might* have got around to it by then.
Quote from: j789 on January 03, 2025, 11:15:49 PMIs that just for the Sunday and evening service though? The lowest bid of £2000 a week for 7 days seems ridiculously low otherwise.
How it works is you cost the operation up, add a profit margin and then minus expected fare revenue. If the service doesn't meet the expected fare revenue that TfWM states in the Tender Specification, it will eat into your profit and may even bring you into a loss. These contracts aren't totally subsidised by TfWM - the operator takes a risk with fare revenue.
The example you've given at £2000 per week might well be a service that's well used and takes decent fare revenue or its cost of operation is relatively low - possibly 1 driver and low mileage. I haven't looked at it so do not know.
Something that's hit operators is the Autumn Budget. If I recall correctly, operators submitted the tenders before the Budget was announced. So the winning bidders would have based their tender price on the old 13.8% Employers NI contribution rather than the increased 15% which kicks in from April 2025.
The cost of leasing E200MMCs isn't cheap either - they cost around £700 per week.
Quote from: BBS on January 04, 2025, 09:24:56 PMWell done to TFWM for still not changing flags even though changes come effect tomorrow
No changes just yet to landflight
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on January 06, 2025, 08:03:01 AMNo changes just yet to landflight
Don't hold your breath. Diamond have operated my local 64 service in Wolverhampton since June last year and, except where the route is shared by the 15 & 16, timetables still show the service to be operated by Travel Express!
Quote from: B7RLE on January 04, 2025, 05:08:17 PMSunday 15As would not cope on an E200
Couldn't agree more. However, it wouldn't be any worse that some Monday to Friday journeys that use B7RLEs and are full and standing.
The new stop for the 907/33/51/X51 opposite the Square Peg is going to a big problem judging by last night. There is an unloading stop for the 934 etc which is fine but Walsall drivers just sit there with Not In Service on the front, there's not enough room. There was 4 buses at 1640 yesterday. They need to be told to move away as soon as they have unloaded.
A week ago, changes were made to Solihull service, and not a single flag has been changed in the Acocks green/Olton and Shirley areas
Noticed as I was driving past that the 2/3 stop is now shared with the 5/6, and now the 2/3 stop says on the digital screen that it's an overflow stop. Although I'm certain that throughout this week they've been stopping at separate stops.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on January 13, 2025, 01:32:57 AMNoticed as I was driving past that the 2/3 stop is now shared with the 5/6, and now the 2/3 stop says on the digital screen that it's an overflow stop. Although I'm certain that throughout this week they've been stopping at separate stops.
Changed yesterday (12th). This was the email I received from TfWM:
Whats Happening?
Due to safety issues with multiple buses loading at this stop - services using Stop MS3 will move up one to stop at MS4 on Moor Street Queensway.
MS3 will then become the overflow stop for stop MS4
When
From Sunday 12th January
Services affected & diversion routeNXWM Birmingham 2 and 3
Quote from: Stu on January 13, 2025, 07:23:13 AMChanged yesterday (12th). This was the email I received from TfWM:
Whats Happening?
Due to safety issues with multiple buses loading at this stop - services using Stop MS3 will move up one to stop at MS4 on Moor Street Queensway.
MS3 will then become the overflow stop for stop MS4
When
From Sunday 12th January
Services affected & diversion route
NXWM Birmingham 2 and 3
The 2 and 3 served that stop fine for 2 years, now apparently it's an issue? It's been much better the last week having them there and not at MS3 with the usual 6's taking up the stop.
Quote from: Jack on January 13, 2025, 11:17:59 AMThe 2 and 3 served that stop fine for 2 years, now apparently it's an issue? It's been much better the last week having them there and not at MS3 with the usual 6's taking up the stop.
I don't get it either, for the last few months, all the Stratford Road services have used MS4, and there was enough room even if three or four buses turned up at the same time, with MS3 being the overflow.
With the 4 and 4A moving round the corner back to MS5, congestion should be less of an issue, in theory anyway.
QuoteI don't get it either, for the last few months, all the Stratford Road services have used MS4, and there was enough room even if three or four buses turned up at the same time, with MS3 being the overflow.
With the 4 and 4A moving round the corner back to MS5, congestion should be less of an issue, in theory anyway.
What was the reason of this happening though? Im sure 2/3 have been stopping at MS3 for a very long time but it's suddenly an issue now?
Whoever thought PQ1/PQ2 was a good idea for those services needs to be told about themselves.