While taking a walk in Small Heath, I came across an old bus stop on St Benedicts Road. On closer inspection, the flag says Travel West Midlands and the service 89 below. (Its hard to see at first glance, the flag is faded apart from a bus logo and the words Bus Stop).
My question is that does anyone know anything about this 89 route?
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 15, 2020, 07:37:17 PM
While taking a walk in Small Heath, I came across an old bus stop on St Benedicts Road. On closer inspection, the flag says Travel West Midlands and the service 89 below. (Its hard to see at first glance, the flag is faded apart from a bus logo and the words Bus Stop).
My question is that does anyone know anything about this 89 route?
There used to be a 98 that went down St. Benedict's Road. It ran from Hay Mills Asda car park to Sheldon, the Wheatsheaf via every back road it could find (Ward End, Bromford, Shard End, Garratts Green, The Radleys, Common Road).
It seems at some point this became the 89 although I can't remember when and what route changes there were. This later amalgamated with the 693 (Castle Bromwich circular) to become the 689, which then merged with the 663 to become the 91, which was renamed the 53 that we have today (please correct me if I'm wrong, doing this out of distant memories).
I would love to have copies of all of these timetables so I could document the changes in routes and timetables from the WMPTE era but the load I had in the late 90s/early 00s all got water damaged and thrown out while I was at uni.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 15, 2020, 07:37:17 PM
While taking a walk in Small Heath, I came across an old bus stop on St Benedicts Road. On closer inspection, the flag says Travel West Midlands and the service 89 below. (Its hard to see at first glance, the flag is faded apart from a bus logo and the words Bus Stop).
My question is that does anyone know anything about this 89 route?
I think there was a 89 briefly, it might of been originally a 689 (I'm not sure)
The 28 originally used St. Benedicts Road, I used it regularly when i used to live near by on Burlington Road (where I was brought up), it was re-routed via Heybarnes Road in the early 1990's due to speed humps on St. Benedicts Road. Then around 1994 a 28C was introduced during shopping periods between Ward End and Hay Mills (ASDA) using St. Benedicts Road and ran every 40 minutes. This was soon replaced an extended 98, this was probably replaced the 89.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 15, 2020, 08:34:20 PM
I think there was a 89 briefly, it might of been originally a 689 (I'm not sure)
The 28 originally used St. Benedicts Road, I used it regularly when i used to live near by on Burlington Road (where I was brought up), it was re-routed via Heybarnes Road in the early 1990's due to speed humps on St. Benedicts Road. Then around 1994 a 28C was introduced during shopping periods between Ward End and Hay Mills (ASDA) using St. Benedicts Road and ran every 40 minutes. This was soon replaced an extended 98, this was probably replaced the 89.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 15, 2020, 07:57:18 PM
There used to be a 98 that went down St. Benedict's Road. It ran from Hay Mills Asda car park to Sheldon, the Wheatsheaf via every back road it could find (Ward End, Bromford, Shard End, Garratts Green, The Radleys, Common Road).
It seems at some point this became the 89 although I can't remember when and what route changes there were. This later amalgamated with the 693 (Castle Bromwich circular) to become the 689, which then merged with the 663 to become the 91, which was renamed the 53 that we have today (please correct me if I'm wrong, doing this out of distant memories).
I would love to have copies of all of these timetables so I could document the changes in routes and timetables from the WMPTE era but the load I had in the late 90s/early 00s all got water damaged and thrown out while I was at uni.
The 663 was renumbered to the 53 around 2013, I don't remember a 91.
Thanks for the information guys.
The 98 was I believe numbered 24, prior to that it was part of the 28, but was changed to now be the 28a.
The one
@ellspurs mentioned was the 99, changed to be the 689 IIRC
I can't recall the route number, but the origin of the route was in a minibus route from Fox & Goose to Poolway. The child fare from Bromford Road to Fox and Goose was 8p - if that helps to age it. It ran a very convoluted route, originally via brockhurst road, Bromford road, collingbourne avenue, chipperfield road, Firs Estate, Heathway, middle Leaford and through to the Pool Way.
It wa extended at both ends through to Asda Small Heath, and the Wheatsheaf. I suppose parts of the route are now the 25, 53 & 58
Quote from: Steveminor on June 15, 2020, 09:36:57 PM
The etms today are light years ahead of the old way3 kit operators used to use & give far more information regarding the passes.
Regarding Torbay encts passes we had a couple (before lockdown who were visiting from Torbay & their passes would not scan. It was traced to incorrect coding on Torbay councils part.
What you are doing on First buses I.e showing your photo before scanning "should" be the correct procedure on all buses, but we know that with the speed of todays society that does not really happen.
I remember the old mid red west inspectors not wishing them any disrespect but they had no real knowledge of deregulation as they were clueless as to why Pete's Travel were running the 440 just in front of their bus as "aren't you 5 mins early & hang on theres another 440 just behind we'll need to speak to someone about this" was their comment lol
If you knew Nick Bye as well as I do then Torbay Council & public transport well ahem cough sadly but Torbay has the 12 thanks to Stagecoach oh & Pete's Travel yes I remember them well didn't they pull of the 440 commercially & it ended up under contract to Centro as the 123
@Steveminor I wonder what ever happened to them not sure they are still trading unlike First Midland Red Buses Limited but as Dame Shirley Bassey once said Diamonds are forever.........
The 440 was merged with the already tendered 123 to create a new link between handsworth & Merry hill & continued right through to Rotala days although passenger numbers had been in decline for a while due to various factors even the 40x had to change to try to survive.
As for First Midland Red I think mr eggleton is doing a settler job however their heyday are behind them & today they are a shadow of their former selves
Quote from: Steveminor on June 16, 2020, 04:26:23 AM
The 440 was merged with the already tendered 123 to create a new link between handsworth & Merry hill & continued right through to Rotala days although passenger numbers had been in decline for a while due to various factors even the 40x had to change to try to survive.
As for First Midland Red I think mr eggleton is doing a settler job however their heyday are behind them & today they are a shadow of their former selves
I always keep an eye on former Midland Red West routes.
The 123 used to flip flop between Pete's Travel & Central Connect on tender.
Eventually it became the NXWM 53 which turned out to be unmitigated disaster.
Between Merry Hill & Thimblemill it then became a rejuvenated 129 fitted along with the 127 & 128.
Cut back again it became the 13B in MXWM next round of changes
To today where the route doesn't survive in any recognizable form at all save for a TfWM tender around Old Hill.
The history of the 123 post Midland Red West is most interesting post lockdown.
Quote from: CBBUser on June 15, 2020, 10:31:20 PM
I can't recall the route number, but the origin of the route was in a minibus route from Fox & Goose to Poolway. The child fare from Bromford Road to Fox and Goose was 8p - if that helps to age it. It ran a very convoluted route, originally via brockhurst road, Bromford road, collingbourne avenue, chipperfield road, Firs Estate, Heathway, middle Leaford and through to the Pool Way.
It wa extended at both ends through to Asda Small Heath, and the Wheatsheaf. I suppose parts of the route are now the 25, 53 & 58
The original minibus route was numbered 661 or 662. These two routes got combined into the 98.
Quote from: the trainbasher on June 15, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
The 98 was I believe numbered 24, prior to that it was part of the 28, but was changed to now be the 28a.
The one @ellspurs mentioned was the 99, changed to be the 689 IIRC
The 99 used to run Smith's Wood to Birmingham City Centre via Lea Hall, Yew Tree and Heartlands Hospital.
The Smith's Wood part of this route (around Lanchester Way) is what the 53 serves now. The Lea Hall - Yardley part of the route is served by the 58, and the Yew Tree - Heartlands Hospital part is part of the 73 route now I believe. The 24 covers the parts that the route did around the 28 terminus in Small Heath.
The 689 was a merger of the Kingshurst/Castle Bromwich circular 693 and 89, evidenced by the picture (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Travel-West-Midlands-route-689-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-November-2007-/373061221776?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3D3893181232e84bd6b33c8c67cca0ee14%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D11%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D373061216046%26itm%3D373061221776%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=ez5frT9SxYyNawxs3Bh8GvfPNiY%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc) on this ebay listing for the timetable.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 15, 2020, 08:41:49 PM
The 663 was renumbered to the 53 around 2013, I don't remember a 91.
Thanks for the information guys.
Yea the 91 was a renumbering of the minibus 676 route that ran Chelmsley Wood to Birmingham International Station. This is now the Chelmsley Wood - Marston Green circular 91A/91C.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 16, 2020, 01:37:47 PM
The original minibus route was numbered 661 or 662. These two routes got combined into the 98.
The 99 used to run Smith's Wood to Birmingham City Centre via Lea Hall, Yew Tree and Heartlands Hospital.
The Smith's Wood part of this route (around Lanchester Way) is what the 53 serves now. The Lea Hall - Yardley part of the route is served by the 58, and the Yew Tree - Heartlands Hospital part is part of the 73 route now I believe. The 24 covers the parts that the route did around the 28 terminus in Small Heath.
Why was that 99 withdrawn?
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 01:50:35 PM
Why was that 99 withdrawn?
Barely anyone caught it. From Smith's Wood it took the best part of an hour to get to the City Centre, and when I caught it I was usually the only person on it until it got to Meadway. Most of the route after that was already covered by other routes, and the parts that weren't got split up into parts of what I described above.
The only popular points along it aligned with the schools. I believe the 889 (Tudor Grange Academy Kingshurst - Yew Tree) is still running along the route that the 99 took.
I used to get on, get the top front left position, and enjoy the meandering around.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 16, 2020, 02:00:23 PM
Barely anyone caught it. From Smith's Wood it took the best part of an hour to get to the City Centre, and when I caught it I was usually the only person on it until it got to Meadway. Most of the route after that was already covered by other routes, and the parts that weren't got split up into parts of what I described above.
The only popular points along it aligned with the schools. I believe the 889 (Tudor Grange Academy Kingshurst - Yew Tree) is still running along the route that the 99 took.
I used to get on, get the top front left position, and enjoy the meandering around.
The 99 route from Smith's Wood to Birningham started in 1989, at the time it was god send because the 16/17 (Hamstead to Lea Hall/Radleys) were still cross-city and there reliability was getting worse so the 99 gave us a bit of relief. But over the years it became less and less used just like the 590 (Birmingham - Coleshill circular) which was carrying fresh air on the Yardley/Garretts Green/Chelmsley side. Travelling patterns change and will continue to do so
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 16, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
I always keep an eye on former Midland Red West routes.
The 123 used to flip flop between Pete's Travel & Central Connect on tender.
Eventually it became the NXWM 53 which turned out to be unmitigated disaster.
Between Merry Hill & Thimblemill it then became a rejuvenated 129 fitted along with the 127 & 128.
Cut back again it became the 13B in MXWM next round of changes
To today where the route doesn't survive in any recognizable form at all save for a TfWM tender around Old Hill.
The history of the 123 post Midland Red West is most interesting post lockdown.
Ah yes, the 123. If I remember correctly, at one stage it got merged into the 236 Gornal service (back when PN ran one AM Peak 139 to Halesowen IIRC)
As an aside, does anyone remember when the 243 had a diversion round Cradley Heath back when it started at MH so couldn't serve Timbertree
Quote from: ellspurs on June 16, 2020, 02:00:23 PM
Barely anyone caught it. From Smith's Wood it took the best part of an hour to get to the City Centre, and when I caught it I was usually the only person on it until it got to Meadway. Most of the route after that was already covered by other routes, and the parts that weren't got split up into parts of what I described above.
The only popular points along it aligned with the schools. I believe the 889 (Tudor Grange Academy Kingshurst - Yew Tree) is still running along the route that the 99 took.
I used to get on, get the top front left position, and enjoy the meandering around.
Could it work today but with a different and shorter route? I know Smiths Wood is already served by the 53 and 94 but the 53 is hourly and carries fresh air most of the time.
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 16, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
I always keep an eye on former Midland Red West routes.
The 123 used to flip flop between Pete's Travel & Central Connect on tender.
Eventually it became the NXWM 53 which turned out to be unmitigated disaster.
Between Merry Hill & Thimblemill it then became a rejuvenated 129 fitted along with the 127 & 128.
Cut back again it became the 13B in MXWM next round of changes
To today where the route doesn't survive in any recognizable form at all save for a TfWM tender around Old Hill.
The history of the 123 post Midland Red West is most interesting post lockdown.
It was quite sad to see the 123 and the 40X just disintegrate like it did considering that the 40X made a comeback but went down again.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 05:40:45 PM
It was quite sad to see the 123 and the 40X just disintegrate like it did considering that the 40X made a comeback but went down again.
40X was changed and was basically just the 11E between Perry Barr and Bearwood just before it went completely.
Quote from: the trainbasher on June 16, 2020, 02:56:36 PM
Ah yes, the 123. If I remember correctly, at one stage it got merged into the 236 Gornal service (back when PN ran one AM Peak 139 to Halesowen IIRC)
Travel Merry Hill took over the 123 from Birmingham Coach Company.
The 123 became the short lived 236/7 from Gornal Wood to Bearwood.
The 236/7 were subsequently rerouted & revised to operate to Halesowen via Coombes Wood.
The 123 returned under tender from Centro with Pete's Travel
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 05:37:13 PM
Could it work today but with a different and shorter route? I know Smiths Wood is already served by the 53 and 94 but the 53 is hourly and carries fresh air most of the time.
How would that work, what would be different and shorter about it?
The 96 & X12 also go there.
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
40X was changed and was basically just the 11E between Perry Barr and Bearwood just before it went completely.
Didn't it always go between Perry Barr and Bearwood?
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 05:51:35 PM
Didn't it always go between Perry Barr and Bearwood?
Not along the 11 route, it used to go through Witton and Aston along what is now the 68 route and then through Lozells.
And no it hasn't always gone to Bearwood, at one point it ran into the City Centre and when they first started following the 11 route it only went as far as the City Hospital I think.
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 16, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
Travel Merry Hill took over the 123 from Birmingham Coach Company.
The 123 became the short lived 236/7 from Gornal Wood to Bearwood.
The 236/7 were subsequently rerouted & revised to operate to Halesowen via Coombes Wood.
The 123 returned under tender from Centro with Pete's Travel
The 123 was one of my favourite routes and has certainly had an interesting history post MRW. It's a shame to see how it ended.
I also love the history of routes such as the 440, 443 and 445.
It was a great move at the time linking the 123 and the 440.
Does anyone remember when Birmingham Coach Company linked the 221 and 443?
Quote from: sonic84 on June 16, 2020, 06:19:23 PM
The 123 was one of my favourite routes and has certainly had an interesting history post MRW. It's a shame to see how it ended.
I also love the history of routes such as the 440, 443 and 445.
It was a great move at the time linking the 123 and the 440.
Does anyone remember when Birmingham Coach Company linked the 221 and 443?
I remember when it terminated in Bearwood, rather than going up Bearwood Road to the bus station, drivers used to carry on Sandon Road and make a u-turn on Willow Road back to Sandon Road
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2020, 05:59:22 PM
Not along the 11 route, it used to go through Witton and Aston along what is now the 68 route and then through Lozells.
And no it hasn't always gone to Bearwood, at one point it ran into the City Centre and when they first started following the 11 route it only went as far as the City Hospital I think.
I was wandering what buses used to go on Lozells Road at SWA.
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2020, 05:51:22 PM
How would that work, what would be different and shorter about it?
The 96 & X12 also go there.
The 96 doesn't go into town though. I was thinking it could do the old 72 route from Birmingham to Bromford but instead of going to Bromford, it could go up Bromford Lane to Ward End and then follow the 94 to Smiths Wood and terminate at the Lancaster Way terminus.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 06:39:57 PM
The 96 doesn't go into town though. I was thinking it could do the old 72 route from Birmingham to Bromford but instead of going to Bromford, it could go up Bromford Lane to Ward End and then follow the 94 to Smiths Wood and terminate at the Lancaster Way terminus.
The 96 maintains the long-standing link that Smith's Wood/Chelmsley Wood has had with Erdington. Oh and the Fort Shopping Centre now the cinema on Kingsbury Road has gone. Anyone on Lanchester Way now either walks down to Auckland Drive/Green Lane or up to Water Orton Road. The 53 is just there to fulfil some criteria at TfWM.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 16, 2020, 06:57:25 PM
The 96 maintains the long-standing link that Smith's Wood/Chelmsley Wood has had with Erdington. Oh and the Fort Shopping Centre now the cinema on Kingsbury Road has gone. Anyone on Lanchester Way now either walks down to Auckland Drive/Green Lane or up to Water Orton Road. The 53 is just there to fulfil some criteria at TfWM.
Exactly my point. Smiths Wood is kinda under-bussed in a sense. Yes the 94 does serve Smiths Wood and is high frequency but still.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
Exactly my point. Smiths Wood is kinda under-bussed in a sense. Yes the 94 does serve Smiths Wood and is high frequency but still.
Under bussed?
Which services have you seen struggling around Smith's Wood?
Where can't you get to where there is unmet demand?
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
Exactly my point. Smiths Wood is kinda under-bussed in a sense. Yes the 94 does serve Smiths Wood and is high frequency but still.
Smith's Wood is more than adequately served with buses.
94 basically every 4-7 minutes between NXWM and Claribels
X12 every 20 minutes
96 every 30 minutes
71 on the Chester Road (just over the boundary) every xx minutes (and if I'm counting that one, then the 58 as well).
The 96 even runs through the middle of the estate now as well, when the last bus that tried to do that was the short-lived 737/747 peak time minibuses.
I can get to Birmingham Airport before 4am, which was 2 hours before their first flight of the day.
Both NXWM and Claribels has done the area fine.
The 99 and nowadays the 53 provides a link to Heartlands Hospital - that may be why it is subsidised?
I think Smith's Wood is 'overserved'. I wonder whether every other 94 could run directly along Chester Road between Hurst Lane and Bacon's End Island - I imagine it would be a fair bit quicker. Under normal timetable that would give 4 buses per hour along Auckland Drive, 3 along Windward Way (X12) and 4 along Chester Road...+ The Claribels service.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
Exactly my point. Smiths Wood is kinda under-bussed in a sense. Yes the 94 does serve Smiths Wood and is high frequency but still.
This is one thing that annoys me. Why do people in areas with high frequency services complain and want more? They really do not realise how lucky they are. I could only wish for a frequent service, but sadly that can't be sustained in the area that I live.
Quote from: Pat on June 16, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
This is one thing that annoys me. Why do people in areas with high frequency services complain and want more? They really do not realise how lucky they are. I could only wish for a frequent service, but sadly that can't be sustained in the area that I live.
When I grew up there it had 6 buses an hour.
The 194 was every 30 minutes to City, with a couple of peak extras and started at Arran Way, didn't go to Chelmsley Wood. The 175 started there and went to Chelmsley Wood then onto Solihull every 30 minutes and the 195 started at Arran Way to City via Bordelsley Green. Then there was the peak only 162 to City via Tyburn Road, so services have improved no end.
Quote from: CBBUser on June 16, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
The 99 and nowadays the 53 provides a link to Heartlands Hospital - that may be why it is subsidised?
I think Smith's Wood is 'overserved'. I wonder whether every other 94 could run directly along Chester Road between Hurst Lane and Bacon's End Island - I imagine it would be a fair bit quicker. Under normal timetable that would give 4 buses per hour along Auckland Drive, 3 along Windward Way (X12) and 4 along Chester Road...+ The Claribels service.
That section is covered by the 71 & loading would suggest that its servered by the correct frequency so it doesn't require more buses, Auckland drive can generate a lot of passengers as you see when there has been a slight delay on the 94 then stops can be very busy.
It wouldn't be right to dilute the service provision for Auckland drive to place buses on an already adequately served road
Memories Tony I remember waiting at the clock garage after getting of a 28 watching the 194 sail past full and having to wait for the next one, until I realized if I walked to the next stop up the hill you had a better chance of getting on.
Quote from: Pat on June 16, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
This is one thing that annoys me. Why do people in areas with high frequency services complain and want more? They really do not realise how lucky they are. I could only wish for a frequent service, but sadly that can't be sustained in the area that I live.
Absolutely this, every route I live within 5 minutes of is essentially every half an hour (every 15 minutes when combined with other services)
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 17, 2020, 10:49:06 AM
Absolutely this, every route I live within 5 minutes of is essentially every half an hour (every 15 minutes when combined with other services)
I'd be grateful for even a half hourly service!
Quote from: Pat on June 16, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
This is one thing that annoys me. Why do people in areas with high frequency services complain and want more? They really do not realise how lucky they are. I could only wish for a frequent service, but sadly that can't be sustained in the area that I live.
Some people complain because the high-frequency routes are often unreliable *cough cough the BY17 cough cough*.
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 17, 2020, 06:33:57 PM
Some people complain because the high-frequency routes are often unreliable *cough cough the BY17 cough cough*.
But low frequency routes can be as equally unreliable. My local service often runs late in the evening as it gets stuck on Tettenhall Road. If a bus on a high frequency route is a no show for whatever reason, you don't have as long to wait for the next one.
That said, the train service I use to commute to Shrewsbury every day is regular (every 30 mins) and I've always got the option to wait for the one half an hour behind if mine is a no show. I always catch one earlier than I need to in case of any disruptions and so that I'm not late in Shrewsbury.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 16, 2020, 06:19:23 PM
The 123 was one of my favourite routes and has certainly had an interesting history post MRW. It's a shame to see how it ended.
I also love the history of routes such as the 440, 443 and 445.
It was a great move at the time linking the 123 and the 440.
Does anyone remember when Birmingham Coach Company linked the 221 and 443?
Linking the 123 and 440 was in many ways a disaster, the route was far too long, passing through many busy centres. If I remember it was about 80 minutes end to end with 5 minutes turnaround at each end, timekeeping was impossible and the service was totally unreliable.
The route also caused a lot of confusion in Handsworth area, many locals assumed buses coming up the Soho Road displaying Merry Hill were going as far as Winson Green only.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on June 17, 2020, 11:35:41 PM
Linking the 123 and 440 was in many ways a disaster, the route was far too long, passing through many busy centres. If I remember it was about 80 minutes end to end with 5 minutes turnaround at each end, timekeeping was impossible and the service was totally unreliable.
The route also caused a lot of confusion in Handsworth area, many locals assumed buses coming up the Soho Road displaying Merry Hill were going as far as Winson Green only.
The section of route between Merry Hill and Rowley Regis continues to operate hourly today as National Express West Midlands Service 14A although operating to a slightly different route in Old Hill.
The section of route between Bearwood & Rowley Regis has been completely lost with no replacement service following the withdrawal of NXWM 13B in the summer of 2019.
After a long period of operation by BCC the 221 was merged with the 443 taken over from Midland Red West & subsequently withdrawn due to similar reliability issues as the merged 123/440 & proving unrenumerative.
The 221 continues in a similar way today as NXWM 48 & 48A services however again there is no direct replacement for the 443.
One thing I've been thinking about recently: how did the 35 route come about in the late 90s to be Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Pool Farm - Hawkesley - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath?
Seemed a bit odd that the bus ran Birmingham - Kings Heath, then basically did a circular route to/from Hawkesley.
It was later split up into the 35 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1168.html) and 27 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1221.html) routes, both of which received branded buses.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 20, 2020, 06:21:33 AM
One thing I've been thinking about recently: how did the 35 route come about in the late 90s to be Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Pool Farm - Hawkesley - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath?
Seemed a bit odd that the bus ran Birmingham - Kings Heath, then basically did a circular route to/from Hawkesley.
It was later split up into the 35 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1168.html) and 27 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1221.html) routes, both of which received branded buses.
I think (but am not 100% sure) that it has something to do with travel yourbus and the 84/85?
Quote from: the trainbasher on June 20, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
I think (but am not 100% sure) that it has something to do with travel yourbus and the 84/85?
I remember TYB with the 53Y and 54Y doing various things via Cotteridge, and the A6Y/C6Y, but I think these were still in operation in the late 1990s.
Similarly, I remember the 83/84/85 being operated by MRW around this time.
I always found it weird that in order to get to Pineapple Road, Kings Heath, it was quicker to catch the 35/50 from Birmingham, get off in Kings Heath and go catch the 35 again going in the other direction to get to Pineapple Road. At the time it was only being serviced by the 35.
EDIT: I found some info out by looking at timetables for sale on ebay.
In the early 90s, the 35 ran to Hawkesley via Pool Farm, and there was a circular 27A/C route that ran in the South of Birmingham, via Kings Heath, Hawkesley, Turves Green and Bournville. Then some evening/Sunday services on the 27 got combined with the 35 to run back through to Birmingham. Then this got reverted, then the routes were combined it seems.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/West-Midlands-Travel-route-35-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-September-1991/373082426489
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/West-Midlands-Travel-route-27-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-August-1992/373080790854
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/West-Midlands-Travel-route-27-35-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-September-1993/373080790790
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/West-Midlands-Buses-route-35-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-March-1995/373080790812
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/West-Midlands-Travel-route-35-Birmingham-Bus-Timetable-April-1996/373082426453
Quote from: the trainbasher on June 20, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
I think (but am not 100% sure) that it has something to do with travel yourbus and the 84/85?
I seem to remember one of my older fellow midland red drivers telling me that it was midland red who ran the first bus route to Hawkesley as the 84/85 and they should really made a success of it but unfortunately the route was inter worked with a longer distance route from Redditch in Birmingham city centre so it became unreliable. I believe WMT only operated the 35 to pool farm at that time so midland red had the estate to themselves with a bus from the city but couldn't get it to work sadly. I'm not 100% on this as like I say it's from another source but interesting nonetheless.
Quote from: j789 on June 20, 2020, 12:43:51 PM
I seem to remember one of my older fellow midland red drivers telling me that it was midland red who ran the first bus route to Hawkesley as the 84/85 and they should really made a success of it but unfortunately the route was inter worked with a longer distance route from Redditch in Birmingham city centre so it became unreliable. I believe WMT only operated the 35 to pool farm at that time so midland red had the estate to themselves with a bus from the city but couldn't get it to work sadly. I'm not 100% on this as like I say it's from another source but interesting nonetheless.
The 83 84 85 began operating by Midland Red West on 26th October 1986 operated by Digbeth Garage using Mk1 Leyland Nationals didplaced from Worcestershire Minibus Conversions. The services were initially sucessfull on Bristol Rd after the D Day cuts by WMPTE/WMT with MRW filling the gaps. Along the Bristol Rd MRW had 10 buses per hour from either Hawkesley, and/or Longbridge & Bromesgrove. There was also a WMPTE sponsored 86. This was one of the few routes MRW Wandacards were sucessfull on as they were cleverly priced well below the price WMT Travelcards. The service eventually moved to Redditch garage punctually went out of the window and WMT restored the WMPTE frequencys on the Bristol Rd corridor & MRW withdrew with Your Bus taking over. At the same time MRW had 8 buses per hour along Hagley Road from The City to Halesowen 131192 292 392 X92 X93 & X94.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 20, 2020, 06:21:33 AM
One thing I've been thinking about recently: how did the 35 route come about in the late 90s to be Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Pool Farm - Hawkesley - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath?
Seemed a bit odd that the bus ran Birmingham - Kings Heath, then basically did a circular route to/from Hawkesley.
It was later split up into the 35 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1168.html) and 27 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1221.html) routes, both of which received branded buses.
It was an amalgamation of the 35 and the 27 which at the time was the "South Circle" - Kings Heath, Bournville, Northfield, West Heath, Hawkesley, Kings Heath. The 27 and 35 both linked Kings Heath and Hawkesley, the 35 via Allens Croft Road and the 27 via Brandwood Road. The 27 was withdrawn and replaced by the extended 35. I think another route was amended to cover the part of the 27 that served Brandwood Road - possibly an extension of the then A6 from Kings Heath (?) but my memory on that is vague.
The 35 was later separated back out into the 35 and 27, which no longer ran in a loop after that.
Quote from: Mike K on June 20, 2020, 02:40:29 PM
It was an amalgamation of the 35 and the 27 which at the time was the "South Circle" - Kings Heath, Bournville, Northfield, West Heath, Hawkesley, Kings Heath. The 27 and 35 both linked Kings Heath and Hawkesley, the 35 via Allens Croft Road and the 27 via Brandwood Road. The 27 was withdrawn and replaced by the extended 35. I think another route was amended to cover the part of the 27 that served Brandwood Road - possibly an extension of the then A6 from Kings Heath (?) but my memory on that is vague.
The 35 was later separated back out into the 35 and 27, which no longer ran in a loop after that.
Thanks, Mike. I found some timetables from the time and edited them into my previous post.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 20, 2020, 06:21:33 AM
One thing I've been thinking about recently: how did the 35 route come about in the late 90s to be Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Pool Farm - Hawkesley - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath?
Seemed a bit odd that the bus ran Birmingham - Kings Heath, then basically did a circular route to/from Hawkesley.
It was later split up into the 35 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1168.html) and 27 (http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/1061-1316/1221.html) routes, both of which received branded buses.
The origin of the extended 35 lay in changes made in September 1993 which saw the 27 and 35 interworking in both directions at Hawkesley during the evenings. The June 1994 change which saw the 27 completely subsumed into the 35 was effectively an extension of this.
At the same time a 27M was introduced covering the Dawberry Fields area which the old South Circle 27A/C used to serve. This was the route that Mike K may be thinking of. It was operated by either a single midibus or a single National MkII and was replaced some 6 months later by WMT's 43 service and subsequently TYB's 54y.
YW also started interworking the 49/69 at Frankley at the same time which must have rivalled the current 48 for length.
Quote from: SO6597 on June 20, 2020, 04:10:59 PM
The origins of the extended 35 actually lay in changes made in September 1993 which saw the 27 and 35 interworking in both directions at Hawkesley during the evenings. The June 1994 change which saw the 27 become completely subsumed into the 35 was effectively an extension of this. At the same time a 27M was introduced which covered the Dawberry Fields area which the old South Circle 27A/C used to serve.
YW also started interworking the 49/69 at Frankley at the same time which must have rivalled the current 48 for length
Actually checked the last point, thinking about it there was no contest. The 48 clocks in at 1hr 32m compared with the 3hr 9m interworked 49/69. No wonder this configuration only lasted a couple of months before the routes were split at Northfield.
Quote from: SO6597 on June 20, 2020, 06:03:22 PM
Actually checked the last point, thinking about it there was no contest. The 48 clocks in at 1hr 32m compared with the 3hr 9m interworked 49/69. No wonder this configuration only lasted a couple of months before the routes were split at Northfield.
Where was it that the 49 / 69 inter worked? I remember the 69 running Heartlands Hospital to Weoley Castle, later shortened to Solihull to Weoley Castle, I don't recall it serving Frankley.
They interworked at Frankley, Holly Hill. The 69 was extended from Weoley Castle via Northfield.
The 49 was cut back to Frankley and at the same time rerouted through Rednal via Lickey Road and Ashill Road causing all sorts of problems with residents on the latter. I used to garden for a relative on the road and remember watching two YW double deckers being blocked by residents on a Saturday afternoon.
In November the 49 was extended to Northfield once more with the 69 being cut back to the same place. The timetables suggest they no longer interworked at that point so the experiment lasted for about 10 weeks.
At the same time the 49 was diverted back onto the Bristol Road for every other journey (as the 49A) with drivers left to run the gauntlet along Ashill Road once per hour before being reinstated to the Bristol Road in full the following April (when it got rerouted through Pool Farm).
Interesting times!
Quote from: SO6597 on June 20, 2020, 10:03:54 PM
They interworked at Frankley, Holly Hill. The 69 was extended from Weoley Castle via Northfield.
The 49 was cut back to Frankley and at the same time rerouted through Rednal via Lickey Road and Ashill Road causing all sorts of problems with residents on the latter. I used to garden for a relative on the road and remember watching two YW double deckers being blocked by residents on a Saturday afternoon.
In November the 49 was extended to Northfield once more with the 69 being cut back to the same place. The timetables suggest they no longer interworked at that point so the experiment lasted for about 10 weeks.
At the same time the 49 was diverted back onto the Bristol Road for every other journey (as the 49A) with drivers left to run the gauntlet along Ashill Road once per hour before being reinstated to the Bristol Road in full the following April (when it got rerouted through Pool Farm).
Interesting times!
Thanks. I never knew the 69 had been extended beyond Weoley Castle. I've lost track of the number of times the route between Frankley and Northfield that's not served by the 61 has been served by tinkering with different routes over the years.
Quote from: Mike K on June 20, 2020, 11:25:24 PM
Thanks. I never knew the 69 had been extended beyond Weoley Castle. I've lost track of the number of times the route between Frankley and Northfield that's not served by the 61 has been served by tinkering with different routes over the years.
I have vague memories of the 69/49 being controversial with blockage protests in the frankley area.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 23, 2020, 06:45:19 PM
I have vague memories of the 69/49 being controversial with blockage protests in the frankley area.
Were they complaining about the route being changed, or the sheer audacity of a bus sullying their roads?
It's direct off the A38, wide and straight. It's not like it was a shortcut through anywhere, as it just leads up to the aforementioned Lickey Road, which has more major roads either side of it.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 23, 2020, 06:56:14 PM
Were they complaining about the route being changed, or the sheer audacity of a bus sullying their roads?
It's direct off the A38, wide and straight. It's not like it was a shortcut through anywhere, as it just leads up to the aforementioned Lickey Road, which has more major roads either side of it.
I didn't know about the Frankley issues but the problem with Ashill Rd was that the timetable often meant buses passing one another on it which at the Bristol Rd end isn't easy. More recently, the X20 (during its short lived routing along the road) got diverted inbound along an even narrower road, Cliff Rock Road, to avoid the same problem happening again - the original plan being to run it straight down to the Bristol Rd.
Quote from: SO6597 on June 23, 2020, 08:17:35 PM
I didn't know about the Frankley issues but the problem with Ashill Rd was that the timetable often meant buses passing one another on it which at the Bristol Rd end isn't easy. More recently, the X20 (during its short lived routing along the road) got diverted inbound along an even narrower road, Cliff Rock Road, to avoid the same problem happening again - the original plan being to run it straight down to the Bristol Rd.
I see. I can see the Bristol Road end looking a bit tight if there's a bus sat waiting for the lights to change, but other than that it seems like a nice, wide road. Cliff Rock Road definitely doesn't look suitable for a double decker. Was it the drivers that complained or mainly the residents?
Quote from: ellspurs on June 23, 2020, 08:48:11 PM
I see. I can see the Bristol Road end looking a bit tight if there's a bus sat waiting for the lights to change, but other than that it seems like a nice, wide road. Cliff Rock Road definitely doesn't look suitable for a double decker. Was it the drivers that complained or mainly the residents?
Don't know about the drivers but the residents definitely weren't happy! You're right though, the part between Cliff Rock Road and Lickey Road (Edgewood Rd) is absolutely fine. I followed an X20 along Cliff Rock Rd on a Saturday morning shortly before it was withdrawn from there - lots of parked cars, fantastic manoeuvres on the part of the driver!
Does anyone have some info on the 192 and 194 bus route between Solihull and Coventry? What were their frequency?
I noticed that there's a google maps street view with bus stop stand near Olton Station showing 192 and 194 (https://goo.gl/maps/PvEo3fwtYGQyGzVR6)- was the route extended to Birmingham city centre at some point?
Quote from: :D on January 29, 2021, 11:24:06 PM
I noticed that there's a google maps street view with bus stop stand near Olton Station showing 192 and 194 (https://goo.gl/maps/PvEo3fwtYGQyGzVR6)- was the route extended to Birmingham city centre at some point?
Depot trips to Acocks Green Garage I think.
@Stu said it before somewhere.
And if you look at the 2008 streetview for the 11A stop outside the garage, thats where the 192/194 numbers start appearing on the stops.
Quote from: :D on January 29, 2021, 11:24:06 PM
Does anyone have some info on the 192 and 194 bus route between Solihull and Coventry? What were their frequency?
I noticed that there's a google maps street view with bus stop stand near Olton Station showing 192 and 194 (https://goo.gl/maps/PvEo3fwtYGQyGzVR6)- was the route extended to Birmingham city centre at some point?
Quote from: 2206 on January 29, 2021, 11:39:32 PM
Depot trips to Acocks Green Garage I think. @Stu said it before somewhere.
And if you look at the 2008 streetview for the 11A stop outside the garage, thats where the 192/194 numbers start appearing on the stops.
While Yourbus was still operating, there was a time where the 192Y/194Y was extended to Birmingham City Centre, via the 37 (now 4) route from Solihull. This was at some point between 1995 and 2000. A 193Y was also introduced, which ran via Westwood Avenue in Coventry. The buses ran from New Street in Birmingham City Centre. I am unsure whether TYB had been integrated into TWM before the route was truncated.
I travelled on that route many times.
After a while, it was truncated back to Acocks Green, then ultimately just the depot trips as mentioned.
The 192Y only came to Your Bus after the takeover
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/8192352731
Seeing this picture surprised me. A Sunday service from Telford to Wolverhampton operated by WMT in Jan 1996? I am guessing this is a tendered service, but an established-enough one that they've updated the blinds to have Wellington on them?
Quote from: ellspurs on January 30, 2021, 12:02:36 PM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/8192352731
Seeing this picture surprised me. A Sunday service from Telford to Wolverhampton operated by WMT in Jan 1996? I am guessing this is a tendered service, but an established-enough one that they've updated the blinds to have Wellington on them?
I heard they had one, but didn't think it lasted that long.
The X92 they won at deregulation, or just before, didn't last long either.
There was a few years of new tenders being won by WMT, but being lost by the next tender round, certainly in Walsall.
Will have to think to see if there's any Walsall routes that were never operated at any point by WMT etc.
The first one that springs to mind is the evening & Sunday 8a, that was operated via Field Road in Bloxwich. That was a mixture of Arriva & Diamond ISTR.
Quote from: :D on January 29, 2021, 11:24:06 PM
Does anyone have some info on the 192 and 194 bus route between Solihull and Coventry? What were their frequency?
I noticed that there's a google maps street view with bus stop stand near Olton Station showing 192 and 194 (https://goo.gl/maps/PvEo3fwtYGQyGzVR6)- was the route extended to Birmingham city centre at some point?
I took a few trips 'all the way' from Coventry [home] to Solihull in the 1990s - so should know really. It wasn't that frequent, was going to say hourly, but wasn't even that I think.
192/194 ran around every 60/70 minutes. There was generally 2 buses used but a journey time of 1hr Solihull - Coventry
Coventry departure would be 1405 1505 1615 1725.
Travel yourbus took over 192Y 194 around October 1994 using Dafs.
In June 1998 the 192Y 194Y was extended to Birmingham running hourly using 4 buses Leyland lynxs 1126 1128 1220 1278 drifted in EX Travel Merry Hill.
There was also a Varient 193Y serving Warwick University .
September 1999 would see the 192 194 Transferred yo TWM Acocks Green Garage running Coventry - Acocks Green hourly using Leyland Lynxs 3 buses.
Route 192 194 cut back to Solihull 2 buses running previous 60/70 minute frequency.
I Rode 192 194 many times Great route always single deck Lynxs then B10Ls. In the final years 2008 2009 was operated by Volvo Gemini.
Travel Coventry took over the 192/194 as new service 19W hourly January 2009. Not sure when the 19W was given up.
One more old route I've noticed from looking at photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/4435032379/
94B from Birmingham City Centre to "Chelmsley Wood North" (Arran Way, Smith's Wood). It ran as the 94 from Smith's Wood to the Fox & Goose, then via Alum Rock Road to Saltley before continuing the 94 route to the city centre.
Distinctly remember catching this one on occasions either when I wanted to go to the Capitol Cinema (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4890623,-1.8305293,3a,38.5y,245.76h,93.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCRpvmgMz_84WPi4vm5dFbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in Pelham, or when I needed to go to the shops and you could see it waiting at the bus stand.
Quote from: PB2938 on January 30, 2021, 03:35:02 PM
192/194 ran around every 60/70 minutes. There was generally 2 buses used but a journey time of 1hr Solihull - Coventry
Coventry departure would be 1405 1505 1615 1725.
Travel yourbus took over 192Y 194 around October 1994 using Dafs.
In June 1998 the 192Y 194Y was extended to Birmingham running hourly using 4 buses Leyland lynxs 1126 1128 1220 1278 drifted in EX Travel Merry Hill.
There was also a Varient 193Y serving Warwick University .
September 1999 would see the 192 194 Transferred yo TWM Acocks Green Garage running Coventry - Acocks Green hourly using Leyland Lynxs 3 buses.
Route 192 194 cut back to Solihull 2 buses running previous 60/70 minute frequency.
I Rode 192 194 many times Great route always single deck Lynxs then B10Ls. In the final years 2008 2009 was operated by Volvo Gemini.
Travel Coventry took over the service as 19W hourly January 2009. Not sure when it was given up.
I have a few notes for July 2010 and there was no 192/194 running in Cov then - just a shorter 19/19W/19X to Tile Hill South/Westwood Business Park and an 81 (plus a few variations) to Berkswell via Canley, Tile Hill South etc.
Quote from: paulb1973 on January 30, 2021, 04:15:05 PM
I have a few notes for July 2010 and there was no 192/194 running in Cov then - just a shorter 19/19W/19X to Tile Hill South/Westwood Business Park and an 81 (plus a few variations) to Berkswell via Canley, Tile Hill South etc.
After the 19W, it went to 82/87, where the 82 ran via the 900/X1 route to Coventry from Meriden (doing the loop in Millisons Wood), and the 87 did Coventry to Balsall Common, then to Solihull via Knowle. An 89 was introduced to cover Berkswell and some of the more finicky roads in Balsall Common and Hampton-in-Arden, becoming one of the most expensive subsidised services due to it's roaming mechanism in Meriden and Balsall Common/Berkswell.
Don't think any of these services were ran by NX, I believe they were first ran by Diamond (or Central Connect if it was pre-merger) Signature Buses, then the 82 was taken by Johnsons, merged with the X20 to now go Coventry - Stratford via Solihull.
Quote from: ellspurs on January 30, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
After the 19W, it went to 82/87, where the 82 ran via the 900/X1 route to Coventry from Meriden (doing the loop in Millisons Wood), and the 87 did Coventry to Balsall Common, then to Solihull via Knowle. An 89 was introduced to cover Berkswell and some of the more finicky roads in Balsall Common and Hampton-in-Arden, becoming one of the most expensive subsidised services due to it's roaming mechanism in Meriden and Balsall Common/Berkswell.
Don't think any of these services were ran by NX, I believe they were first ran by Diamond (or Central Connect if it was pre-merger) Signature Buses, then the 82 was taken by Johnsons, merged with the X20 to now go Coventry - Stratford via Solihull.
NX Coventry ran the 82 before Diamond (Signature)
Quote from: ellspurs on January 30, 2021, 04:02:04 PM
One more old route I've noticed from looking at photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/4435032379/
94B from Birmingham City Centre to "Chelmsley Wood North" (Arran Way, Smith's Wood). It ran as the 94 from Smith's Wood to the Fox & Goose, then via Alum Rock Road to Saltley before continuing the 94 route to the city centre.
Distinctly remember catching this one on occasions either when I wanted to go to the Capitol Cinema (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4890623,-1.8305293,3a,38.5y,245.76h,93.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCRpvmgMz_84WPi4vm5dFbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in Pelham, or when I needed to go to the shops and you could see it waiting at the bus stand.
I remember catching the 94B fairly often. I think it didn't last too long and something in my mind says it was renumbered 94 and used Washwood Heath Road until it was finally withdrawn. The early 90s were a very mixed and colourful time in this area of Brum. So many different operators on the Washwood Heath and Alum Rock routes. WM saw them all off apart from Claribels.
Around 1997/1998 the 97 to Chelmsley Wood must of had about 5 different operators.
Quote from: PB2938 on January 30, 2021, 03:35:02 PMTravel Coventry took over the 192/194 as new service 19W hourly January 2009. Not sure when the 19W was given up.
There was also the 19X alongside the 19W, but I'm not sure what the difference was.
Quote from: DJ on January 30, 2021, 05:18:36 PM
There was also the 19X alongside the 19W, but I'm not sure what the difference was.
I did another google search and found some rather interesting info:
https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/11798272 (a scraping of when the information was on Wikipedia)
The 19X ran via Charter Avenue.
Quote from: ellspurs on January 30, 2021, 05:26:08 PM
I did another google search and found some rather interesting info:
https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/11798272 (a scraping of when the information was on Wikipedia)
The 19X ran via Charter Avenue.
These are from my own notes:
19 City (Pool Meadow) - Earlsdon - Tile Hill South (via Cannon Park Shops & Canley)
19W City (Pool Meadow) - Canley - Tile Hill South
19X City (Pool Meadow) - Canley - Tile Hill South/Westwood Business Park
81 City (Pool Meadow) - Berkswell Rail Station via Tile Hill South, Burton Green & Balsall Common
81E City (Pool Meadow) - Canley - Tile Hill South - Cannon Park (via Torrington Avenue & Westwood Heath)
81W City (Pool Meadow) - Canley - Tile Hill South - Westwood Business Park
I assume this is from the Coventry Guide and various timetable leaflets.
Quote from: ellspurs on January 30, 2021, 04:02:04 PM
One more old route I've noticed from looking at photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/4435032379/
94B from Birmingham City Centre to "Chelmsley Wood North" (Arran Way, Smith's Wood). It ran as the 94 from Smith's Wood to the Fox & Goose, then via Alum Rock Road to Saltley before continuing the 94 route to the city centre.
Distinctly remember catching this one on occasions either when I wanted to go to the Capitol Cinema (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4890623,-1.8305293,3a,38.5y,245.76h,93.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCRpvmgMz_84WPi4vm5dFbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in Pelham, or when I needed to go to the shops and you could see it waiting at the bus stand.
Did this used to serve Lancaster way from memory
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 30, 2021, 07:16:03 PM
Did this used to serve Lancaster way from memory
I don't remember it doing so. If it did, they didn't erect any bus stops up past the Collector Road (towards Green Lane) until the 99 started going Auckland Drive, Green Lane, Lanchester Way to get to its terminus.
Quote from: Westy on January 30, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
I heard they had one, but didn't think it lasted that long.
The X92 they won at deregulation, or just before, didn't last long either.
There was a few years of new tenders being won by WMT, but being lost by the next tender round, certainly in Walsall.
Will have to think to see if there's any Walsall routes that were never operated at any point by WMT etc.
The first one that springs to mind is the evening & Sunday 8a, that was operated via Field Road in Bloxwich. That was a mixture of Arriva & Diamond ISTR.
The 8A was operated by TWM pre 2008 as service 361. The only difference was serving Lower Farm Estate then Stafford Road to Bloxwich instead of serving Field Road which was rerouted when the Walsall network review April 2010. The 25 was previous 347 Bloxwich -Aldridge operated by WMT 1989 & 1995 not sure of any other time.
Quote from: PB2938 on January 30, 2021, 03:35:02 PM
192/194 ran around every 60/70 minutes. There was generally 2 buses used but a journey time of 1hr Solihull - Coventry
Coventry departure would be 1405 1505 1615 1725.
Travel yourbus took over 192Y 194 around October 1994 using Dafs.
In June 1998 the 192Y 194Y was extended to Birmingham running hourly using 4 buses Leyland lynxs 1126 1128 1220 1278 drifted in EX Travel Merry Hill.
There was also a Varient 193Y serving Warwick University .
September 1999 would see the 192 194 Transferred yo TWM Acocks Green Garage running Coventry - Acocks Green hourly using Leyland Lynxs 3 buses.
Route 192 194 cut back to Solihull 2 buses running previous 60/70 minute frequency.
I Rode 192 194 many times Great route always single deck Lynxs then B10Ls. In the final years 2008 2009 was operated by Volvo Gemini.
Travel Coventry took over the 192/194 as new service 19W hourly January 2009. Not sure when the 19W was given up.
192 was 2 hourly, 194 was 2 hourly with a joint hourly service, main difference in the route was Balsall Common to Tile Green the 192 went via Hodgetts Lane & Cromwell Lane, 194 vis Hodgetts Lane & Duggins Lane, i caught these routes a couple of times, i remember one occasion a Plaxton coach debranded from National Express coaches[still in white livery but no company name[ was allocated to the route which was quite weird for such a route.
Quote from: PB2938 on January 30, 2021, 10:55:44 PM
The 8A was operated by TWM pre 2008 as service 361. The only difference was serving Lower Farm Estate then Stafford Road to Bloxwich instead of serving Field Road which was rerouted when the Walsall network review April 2010. The 25 was previous 347 Bloxwich -Aldridge operated by WMT 1989 & 1995 not sure of any other time.
Mmm yes, but the 347 never went to Aldridge!
It started out as an experimental service in the PTE days between Bloxwich & Brownhills, then at deregulation it formed part of a long minibus route between Brownhills, Pelsall, Bloxwich, via the back of Asda, like the current 25, then found it's way onto the Forest Estate & came onto the Bloxwich Road, just north of the depot at Beeches Road, then down to Walsall, then onto Chuckery & Gillity Village, replacing the then 378 service.
In February (?) 1987, a 378a was introduced between Walsall & Gillity, I think to serve certain parts of that route that wasn't covered by the 347. At some point, the route was fully split, with the Bloxwich to Walsall section withdrawn. (That would have been at some point in early 1987, as the route was Bloxwich to Brownhills, starting in Bloxwich near to the old TP Riley Annexe, as I was catching it at lunchtime from there back to the TP 'other site' in Lichfield Road(now Walsall Academy!).
Not sure exactly when it changed to it's next version, which was basically the route as it was now between Bloxwich & Pelsall, also serving Ryders Hayes, but the next time I caught it, with a friend, to go to Pelsall, we caught it from Chantry Avenue & it was a WMT Irish Dart that was showing 347 still.
Will have to look at the old maps, to give me an idea.
Has anyone got any information on what route the 78 used to take? I'm aware it was operated by West Bromwich garage and stopped c.2000 after being shortened to Birmingham - West Bromwich - Wednesbury
I know that it followed the 79 route, B'ham - Handsworth - West Brom - Wednesbury - Darlaston - Moxley - Bilston - Wolverhampton. But unsure where it went between West Bromwich & Wednesbury, other than Hateley Heath. Did it follow what is now the 47 route? Or were there any other parts of the route that deviated from the 79 route? Cheers :)
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on February 10, 2021, 12:25:44 AM
Has anyone got any information on what route the 78 used to take? I'm aware it was operated by West Bromwich garage and stopped c.2000 after being shortened to Birmingham - West Bromwich - Wednesbury
I know that it followed the 79 route, B'ham - Handsworth - West Brom - Wednesbury - Darlaston - Moxley - Bilston - Wolverhampton. But unsure where it went between West Bromwich & Wednesbury, other than Hateley Heath. Did it follow what is now the 47 route? Or were there any other parts of the route that deviated from the 79 route? Cheers :)
I'm not sure on the exact routing, but I'm pretty sure it survived longer than around 2000, as I remember using it when I was younger. I was only 1 or 2 in 2000, so I highly doubt I'd have remembered it if it went then.
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on February 10, 2021, 12:25:44 AM
Has anyone got any information on what route the 78 used to take? I'm aware it was operated by West Bromwich garage and stopped c.2000 after being shortened to Birmingham - West Bromwich - Wednesbury
I know that it followed the 79 route, B'ham - Handsworth - West Brom - Wednesbury - Darlaston - Moxley - Bilston - Wolverhampton. But unsure where it went between West Bromwich & Wednesbury, other than Hateley Heath. Did it follow what is now the 47 route? Or were there any other parts of the route that deviated from the 79 route? Cheers :)
Iirc it followed what is now the 47 route between Wednesbury and West Brom (i believe it got cut at one stage to Parkway Metro)
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on February 10, 2021, 12:25:44 AM
Has anyone got any information on what route the 78 used to take? I'm aware it was operated by West Bromwich garage and stopped c.2000 after being shortened to Birmingham - West Bromwich - Wednesbury
I know that it followed the 79 route, B'ham - Handsworth - West Brom - Wednesbury - Darlaston - Moxley - Bilston - Wolverhampton. But unsure where it went between West Bromwich & Wednesbury, other than Hateley Heath. Did it follow what is now the 47 route? Or were there any other parts of the route that deviated from the 79 route? Cheers :)
Here is part of the Sandwell & Dudley Map from May 1998
It follows the current 47 route apart from a slight difference in Hateley Heath but there is both the 78 & 78A operating in 1998.
78 operates Birmingham to Wednesbury every 12 minutes and the 78A operates West Bromwich to Wednesbury every 20 minutes.
Its listed as a service in the Nov 2002 Birmingham Map but then the 78 only operates every 30 minutes - can't see if the 78A still operates from that map unfortunately. Think it became the 428/429?
When the 78 operated through to Wolverhampton it operated a different route between Wednesbury & Darlaston but from Darlaston to Wolverhampton they both operated the same route.
Thanks for all the info! Very interesting seeing that map and all those old routes! I did wonder if it followed the current 47. So how did it go to Darlaston? Straight down Trouse Lane and Darlaston Road?
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on February 11, 2021, 08:25:54 PM
Thanks for all the info! Very interesting seeing that map and all those old routes! I did wonder if it followed the current 47. So how did it go to Darlaston? Straight down Trouse Lane and Darlaston Road?
I've got a 1990 Wolverhampton Map and you can just see the 78 uses Darlaston Road & the 79 uses Holyhead Road/Dangerfield Road (see attachment)
79 changed when Holyhead Road was converted in to the Black Country Route (circa '97) i think then it went to the current Trouse Lane, Darlaston Road, Woden Road West & Dangerfield Lane that it operates now. That is probably when the 78 was curtailed to Wednesbury with the 639 picking up the rest of Darlaston Road.
I have a 2001 Sandwell & Dudley map & the 78/78A still operated Birmingham/West Bromwich-Wednesbury then & still every 20 minutes for each route, there was an evening & Sunday 478 Bearwood-Wednesbury, which followed the 78 The Hawthorns to Wednesbury operated by Pete's Travel
Another thing, what were the changes when the Midland Metro opened, i think the 979 was withdrawn, replaced by the 80 which was only Wednesbury-Birmingham, leaving Holyhead Road/Church Street unserved
Quote from: Crosville on February 12, 2021, 09:13:07 PM
Another thing, what were the changes when the Midland Metro opened, i think the 979 was withdrawn, replaced by the 80 which was only Wednesbury-Birmingham, leaving Holyhead Road/Church Street unserved
The 979 carried on until 2000 I believe, with the 78 extended to Bilston at the same time, if my memory serves me right.
Quote from: DJ on February 12, 2021, 09:43:16 PM
The 979 carried on until 2000 I believe, with the 78 extended to Bilston at the same time, if my memory serves me right.
I see.
I've got a 1997 Wolverhampton bus map & that shows a 76 Wolverhampton-Wednesbury every 20 minutes via the withdrawn section of the 78, the 76 was withdrawn by 2001.
Quote from: PB2938 on January 30, 2021, 03:35:02 PM
192/194 ran around every 60/70 minutes. There was generally 2 buses used but a journey time of 1hr Solihull - Coventry
Coventry departure would be 1405 1505 1615 1725.
Travel yourbus took over 192Y 194 around October 1994 using Dafs.
In June 1998 the 192Y 194Y was extended to Birmingham running hourly using 4 buses Leyland lynxs 1126 1128 1220 1278 drifted in EX Travel Merry Hill.
There was also a Varient 193Y serving Warwick University .
September 1999 would see the 192 194 Transferred yo TWM Acocks Green Garage running Coventry - Acocks Green hourly using Leyland Lynxs 3 buses.
Route 192 194 cut back to Solihull 2 buses running previous 60/70 minute frequency.
I Rode 192 194 many times Great route always single deck Lynxs then B10Ls. In the final years 2008 2009 was operated by Volvo Gemini.
Travel Coventry took over the 192/194 as new service 19W hourly January 2009. Not sure when the 19W was given up.
Thanks. Do you know what route did they take between Solihull and Coventry?
Quote from: :D on February 14, 2021, 07:35:41 AM
Thanks. Do you know what route did they take between Solihull and Coventry?
It was roughly this (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/52.4147983,-1.7883894/52.4104695,-1.505786/@52.3938799,-1.6274762,15.79z/data=!4m49!4m48!1m45!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6415958!2d52.4339751!3s0x4870b477d1d993df:0x2c1804fc0310dce7!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6421724!2d52.4180901!3s0x4870b46ecc4d5cd1:0x6a95799a47060823!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6547573!2d52.3982291!3s0x4870b436b05b86d3:0xc439fe77476df2be!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6467498!2d52.3840252!3s0x4870b5b7b0377f13:0x1dc7d21b4d8df6cc!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6141415!2d52.3883999!3s0x4870b503c931f80b:0xf3ea7f818b83887b!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5891436!2d52.3985334!3s0x4870b4d9f50c1dbf:0xcd35c83507aed4c6!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5679545!2d52.3987025!3s0x48774b2953815389:0xb68938c1c0b15728!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5633628!2d52.4038982!3s0x48774b2fe6a6ad97:0xa7264c9ad022122c!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5249563!2d52.4072817!3s0x48774b082b2e9a4b:0xfe766d389baa8c20!1m0!3e0). There was differences around Canley/Coventry due to different road layouts. This was the 192Y.
The 194Y went via Carol Green instead of Burton Green, roughly like this (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/52.4147983,-1.7883894/52.4104695,-1.505786/@52.3969647,-1.6299779,15.25z/data=!4m49!4m48!1m45!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6415958!2d52.4339751!3s0x4870b477d1d993df:0x2c1804fc0310dce7!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6421724!2d52.4180901!3s0x4870b46ecc4d5cd1:0x6a95799a47060823!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6547573!2d52.3982291!3s0x4870b436b05b86d3:0xc439fe77476df2be!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6467498!2d52.3840252!3s0x4870b5b7b0377f13:0x1dc7d21b4d8df6cc!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6197832!2d52.3924356!3s0x4870b501d78b6bf5:0xeadbe2378b900375!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5891436!2d52.3985334!3s0x4870b4d9f50c1dbf:0xcd35c83507aed4c6!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5679545!2d52.3987025!3s0x48774b2953815389:0xb68938c1c0b15728!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5633628!2d52.4038982!3s0x48774b2fe6a6ad97:0xa7264c9ad022122c!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5249563!2d52.4072817!3s0x48774b082b2e9a4b:0xfe766d389baa8c20!1m0!3e0).
School journeys would also go up Gypsy Lane in Balsall Common.
Yep, the 192 went via Hodggetts Lane & Cornwall Lane were as the 194 went via Hodgetts Lane & Duggins Lane, the rest of the route were the same, both routes were 2 hourly, but jointly operated 60 minutes.
Quote from: sryan188 on February 12, 2021, 12:08:02 AM
I've got a 1990 Wolverhampton Map and you can just see the 78 uses Darlaston Road & the 79 uses Holyhead Road/Dangerfield Road (see attachment)
79 changed when Holyhead Road was converted in to the Black Country Route (circa '97) i think then it went to the current Trouse Lane, Darlaston Road, Woden Road West & Dangerfield Lane that it operates now. That is probably when the 78 was curtailed to Wednesbury with the 639 picking up the rest of Darlaston Road.
Fascinating looking at that map! It's a shame you can't get any digital versions of the older bus maps. Few routes on there I never knew existed such as the 76, 245 & 927. I think I can vagueley remember catching the 78 down Darlaston Road. Then the 79 became Merc operated (I'm sure there was branding similar to the 74 branding, but never seen a pic of it...). Nothing goes down Darlaston Road now which is surprising as there are loads of new houses down there.
Does anyone remember the old 53 route from Merry Hill to West Bromwich that went via here, there and everywhere, I've been trying to find an old route map of it but to no avail I went on it once and I think off memory it was near enough 2 hours before it finally got to West Bromwich! I love long routes like that it's just a shame it doesn't operate anymore there again that being said even if it did it probably would of been massively watered down here and there another route I enjoyed was the 121 from Dudley to West Bromwich via Oldbury? (I think) that took a while too although don't think it was quite as long as the 53.
Quote from: hlliwmai on October 29, 2022, 08:48:43 PMDoes anyone remember the old 53 route from Merry Hill to West Bromwich that went via here, there and everywhere, I've been trying to find an old route map of it but to no avail I went on it once and I think off memory it was near enough 2 hours before it finally got to West Bromwich! I love long routes like that it's just a shame it doesn't operate anymore there again that being said even if it did it probably would of been massively watered down here and there another route I enjoyed was the 121 from Dudley to West Bromwich via Oldbury? (I think) that took a while too although don't think it was quite as long as the 53.
I remember a 238 from West Brom to Merry Hill that took just over an hour:
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/timetables/B238_24Jul11_N.pdf
Quote from: ellspurs on October 29, 2022, 10:09:06 PMI remember a 238 from West Brom to Merry Hill that took just over an hour:
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/timetables/B238_24Jul11_N.pdf
The 53 interworked with the 289 to Old Hill at WB. It left WB the same way as the 74 as far as the Hawthorns.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/west-midlands/Sandwell_NetworkMap_Oct12.pdf
QuoteI remember a 238 from West Brom to Merry Hill that took just over an hour:
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/timetables/B238_24Jul11_N.pdf
Yeah, thats now the WB3
Was the 979 & 66 before the 80 or was there something before the creation of the 80?
QuoteWas the 979 & 66 before the 80 or was there something before the creation of the 80?
The 979 ended in the late 90s/early 00s, iirc the 80 came after that (the 66 I do remember being a cross city route also in the late 90s/early 00s)
Quote from: the trainbasher on October 29, 2022, 11:54:11 PMThe 979 ended in the late 90s/early 00s, iirc the 80 came after that (the 66 I do remember being a cross city route also in the late 90s/early 00s)
There was also a Stevensons 81 which was basically the 979 route from Birmingham to West Bromwich, not sure what happened to it when TWM took over their routes.
The 81 was initially operated by Wolves garage after takeover but was soon switched to West Brom. It was reduced to hourly and withdrawn in 1995.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on October 29, 2022, 10:59:27 PMWas the 979 & 66 before the 80 or was there something before the creation of the 80?
The 66 ran Ladywood - City- Erdington- Sutton Coldfield the ladywood City section was replaced by the 80 in 2010.
There was also a 66A Bearwood - City - Neachells which finished around 2005.
The 66A also served The Fort Shopping Park 1998 - 1999.
Quote from: hlliwmai on October 29, 2022, 08:48:43 PMDoes anyone remember the old 53 route from Merry Hill to West Bromwich that went via here, there and everywhere, I've been trying to find an old route map of it but to no avail I went on it once and I think off memory it was near enough 2 hours before it finally got to West Bromwich! I love long routes like that it's just a shame it doesn't operate anymore there again that being said even if it did it probably would of been massively watered down here and there another route I enjoyed was the 121 from Dudley to West Bromwich via Oldbury? (I think) that took a while too although don't think it was quite as long as the 53.
From memory the 53 was a combination of the 450 and 123, so left West Bromwich, down to the Albion Ground, Lewisham Road then up to Bearwood, then headed for Blackheath, Old Hill and cradley Heath then to Merry Hill. The 121 was a relatively direct about 40 minutes end to end.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on October 31, 2022, 11:27:57 PMFrom memory the 53 was a combination of the 450 and 123, so left West Bromwich, down to the Albion Ground, Lewisham Road then up to Bearwood, then headed for Blackheath, Old Hill and cradley Heath then to Merry Hill. The 121 was a relatively direct about 40 minutes end to end.
Correct, the 123 originally continued from Bearwood to Perry Barr, going via Soho, Lozells and Aston.
The 121 was what is now the 12A route from Dudley to Oldbury, which then continued to West Bromwich along the 4 route.
I remember back in the 80's the old 411 from Wednesbury to West Bromwich via Friar Park and Black Lake and the best part of the journey as TDFR on a clear day when the bus got to black lake you could see Dudley castle in the distance
The 123 was one of the routes operated by Midland Red West from October 86. If I recall it interworked with the 124.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 01, 2022, 08:58:41 AMThe 123 was one of the routes operated by Midland Red West from October 86. If I recall it interworked with the 124.
Yes Midland Red ran the 123 from Birmingham to Brierley Hill and the 124 from Birmingham to Dudley.
When these were withdrawn they swapped between various operators but 124 was eventually cut to Cradley Heath to Dudley, and the 123 Merry Hill to Bearwood.
Petes Travel amalgamated the 123 and 440 when it became Merry Hill to Perry Barr which is how it stayed for many years
Does anyone remember the old Midland Red express services. I think the only one left is the X50/X20 operated by Stagecoach.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 05, 2022, 09:58:14 AMDoes anyone remember the old Midland Red express services. I think the only one left is the X50/X20 operated by Stagecoach.
I rode the 192 from Hereford to Birmingham (Non-express version) in the mid-90s (actually got into trouble for breaking my curfew as the journey was 3 hours).
I do remember an X65 or X66 going across Bedworth/Nuneaton way, but my time frames are probably well past the times where these buses were prevalent.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 05, 2022, 02:43:42 PMI rode the 192 from Hereford to Birmingham (Non-express version) in the mid-90s (actually got into trouble for breaking my curfew as the journey was 3 hours).
I do remember an X65 or X66 going across Bedworth/Nuneaton way, but my time frames are probably well past the times where these buses were prevalent.
I remember the X92 and the X93 which ran from Birmingham to Hereford and Birmingham to Worcester.
The X92 was replaced with the 192 and X93 reduced to odd journeys between Birmingham and Kidderminster.
Quote from: sonic84 on November 08, 2022, 11:53:37 AMI remember the X92 and the X93 which ran from Birmingham to Hereford and Birmingham to Worcester.
The X92 was replaced with the 192 and X93 reduced to odd journeys between Birmingham and Kidderminster.
Any pictures of these in service anywhere?
Going back even further I remember the
X12 Birmingham to Burton
X25 Stafford to Tamworth
X43 & X44 Birmingham to Worcester Motorway expresses (X43 via Quinton and X44 via Northfield)
X66 Birmingham to Leicester
X73 Worcester to Bristol (short lived service in the early 1980s)
X86 Birmingham to Stafford (short lived service in early 1980s)
X93 Birmingham to Worcester via Kidderminster (home of the MRW dual purpose Leyland National 2 1201-1206)
X96 Shrewsbury to Northampton via Birmingham
X99 Birmingham to Nottingham
The X12 became the 112 I think. The remaining section of the X12 (Lichfield to Burton) is now operated by Diamond East Midlands following takeover of Midland Classic.
Wasn't there a limited stop service which ran between Birmingham and Gloucester via Worcester numbered X72?
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 09, 2022, 06:49:13 PMThe X12 became the 112 I think. The remaining section of the X12 (Lichfield to Burton) is now operated by Diamond East Midlands following takeover of Midland Classic.
Wasn't there a limited stop service which ran between Birmingham and Gloucester via Worcester numbered X72?
Yes the X12 became the 112. Midland Red did have an X72 and X73 between Birmingham and Gloucester and an X74 Birmingham to Cheltenham. It was MRW that introduced the Worcester-Bristol X73 service - it did not last long!
Quote from: busfan2847 on November 09, 2022, 07:01:42 PMYes the X12 became the 112. Midland Red did have an X72 and X73 between Birmingham and Gloucester and an X74 Birmingham to Cheltenham. It was MRW that introduced the Worcester-Bristol X73 service - it did not last long!
Originally (pre NBC) the X72 was Birmingham to Gloucester and X73 Birmingham to Cheltenham. There was also X99 Birmingham to Nottingham and X97 Leicester to Shrewsbury, along with X12 Birmingham to Derby. However some of the X series route numbers in those days were actually works and other services such as to outlying hospitals in the early 1960s.
Midland Red (pre NBC) introduced a number of new limited stop services in the mid 60s - two I recall were X8 Birmingham to Walsall and IIRC, X10 Birmingham to Hasbury Circle. I think there were others but they didn't last long.
Found some info on the MidlandRed.net site, & it shows Midland Red West ran an X73 Wolverhampton-Bristol in 1985 which then became Birmingham-Gloucester after d-reg, the service was withdrawn 1988
http://midlandred.net/service/timetable/display.php?routeID=1400
http://midlandred.net/service/timetable/display.php?routeID=3427
http://midlandred.net/service/timetable/search.php?service=all&operator=mrw&sortby=service&area=all
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 01, 2022, 08:58:41 AMThe 123 was one of the routes operated by Midland Red West from October 86. If I recall it interworked with the 124.
The 123 / 124 didn't begin until later - 1990 maybe.
The diagram was either
123 Birmingham - Merry Hill, 209 Merry Hill - Dudley, 270 Dudley - Bilston, 270 Bilston - Dudley, 124 Dudley - Birmingham
or
124 Birmingham - Dudley, 209 Dudley - Merry Hill, 123 Merry Hill - Birmingham
Most 123s / 124s didn't interwork in Birmingham, they in effect switched diagrams.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on November 19, 2022, 10:30:45 PMThe 123 / 124 didn't begin until later - 1990 maybe.
The diagram was either
123 Birmingham - Merry Hill, 209 Merry Hill - Dudley, 270 Dudley - Bilston, 270 Bilston - Dudley, 124 Dudley - Birmingham
or
124 Birmingham - Dudley, 209 Dudley - Merry Hill, 123 Merry Hill - Birmingham
Most 123s / 124s didn't interwork in Birmingham, they in effect switched diagrams.
There were earlier Midland Red versions of the 123 and 124. In 1965 they were:
123 Birmingham - Langley - Blackheath - Brickhouse Farm
124 Birmingham - Warley - Langley - Oldbury
Does anyone have a copy of the Dudley and Sandwell Centro map circa 1999 that they could scan please? Mainly looking for routings of the MH83, MH368, MH412 and WN545.
Also does have a copy of the timetable for the MH trips on the 139 from that time
Remember the United Counties Coachlinks service X64 which ran from Birmingham (Bull Ring Bus Station) to Corby. I used this or Midland Fox service 66 to get from Birmingham to Coventry instead of the 900 as they were quicker. The 66 ran to Leicester hourly (there was also one journey as X66 which omitted Coventry). The remnant of the 66/X66 is the X6 (Cov-Leicester).
Quote from: busfan2847 on November 09, 2022, 03:30:04 PMGoing back even further I remember the
X12 Birmingham to Burton
X25 Stafford to Tamworth
X43 & X44 Birmingham to Worcester Motorway expresses (X43 via Quinton and X44 via Northfield)
X66 Birmingham to Leicester
X73 Worcester to Bristol (short lived service in the early 1980s)
X86 Birmingham to Stafford (short lived service in early 1980s)
X93 Birmingham to Worcester via Kidderminster (home of the MRW dual purpose Leyland National 2 1201-1206)
X96 Shrewsbury to Northampton via Birmingham
X99 Birmingham to Nottingham
X30/X31 Rgeley-Brum via Cannock
X55 Brum to Boney Hay/Cannock
The X86 to Stafford actually lasted well into the 90s as a peak hour express, Stevensons had it for a while
Remember the X60/X61 which ran peak hours Mon-Fri between Wolverhampton and Wellington via the A5 and Ironbridge. This was operated by Midland Red North (Tellus) in 1986 but later by Midland Red West despite the dead mileage from Kidderminster depot to Wellington. It was withdrawn in the early 1990s.
Bearing in mind, we occasionally divert on other threads, regarding old bus routes, most recently on the Walsall Garage thread, & I said I'd have to get round to uploading my old maps at some point, that are a mixture of my own collecting & what I've picked up at the likes of Aston Manor, so I got my scanner set up & made a start.
I've done these on WeTransfer, mainly for copyright reasons, as the link will disappear after a week.
You've got PTE era maps, WM Travel maps & Centro onwards maps, based on Walsall, as that's where I'm based obviously, so any questions, if you download & take a butchers & any further questions, we can debate on here, if that's ok.
(It's certainly a little history lesson, in how certain routes developed & changed!)
https://we.tl/t-8UsDtvwo9L (https://we.tl/t-8UsDtvwo9L) - PTE era & Wm Travel era
https://we.tl/t-TyPusKLaiK (https://we.tl/t-TyPusKLaiK) - Centro onwards era
Obviously we can discuss other areas as well, subject to material being available.
WeTransfer - You just click the link, while it's valid & it comes up with a Download option, then just click that.
Quote from: busfan2847 on November 09, 2022, 03:30:04 PMGoing back even further I remember the
X12 Birmingham to Burton
Didn't that become the 112 ultimately?
Quote from: markcf83 on February 10, 2024, 02:44:01 PMDidn't that become the 112 ultimately?
Isn't this ultimately the x3 and Litchfield to Burton x12 today, remember the 112 being in town, also remember the X12 when Midland Classic Ran it to Sutton as used to be able to get to Derby in 2 buses X12 and X38
In 1964, Midland Red Route X12 was Birmingham-Burton-Derby and 112 was Birmingham-Sutton Coldfield-Burton.
At the same time most of 100-117 were variations of routes to or via Sutton Coldfield. The 110 to Tamworth, the 112 to Burton and the 116 to Tamworth (but via Curdworth and Kingsbury). Separately numbered 198 went to Tamworth but via Curdworth and Fazeley.
WMPTE rationalised the ex Midland Red (Sutton Coldfield garage) and ex BCT (Miller Street garage) routes (a key route of Miller Street's was the 64 - Birmingham to the Yenton (City Boundary) via Erdington prior to that. 66 was Birmingham to Pype Hayes (City Boundary) via Tyburn Road at that time).
The 112 was operated by Stevensons for many years, there was also a short version numbered 111 at one time which ran between Sutton Coldfield and Lichfield I think.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on December 06, 2022, 11:57:26 AMRemember the United Counties Coachlinks service X64 which ran from Birmingham (Bull Ring Bus Station) to Corby. I used this or Midland Fox service 66 to get from Birmingham to Coventry instead of the 900 as they were quicker. The 66 ran to Leicester hourly (there was also one journey as X66 which omitted Coventry). The remnant of the 66/X66 is the X6 (Cov-Leicester).
I have fond memories of the Midland Red service which ran from Birmingham to Nottingham
which I would catch at Sutton coldfield... back in my steam spotting Saturdays on arrival at the Bus station in Nottingham about mid day I would race over to Nottm Victoria station to catch a local train to Grantham which left at 1 pm on one occasion I was 'pulled' by a named B1 61000 " Springbok" which was based at Colwick Unfortunately I could only stay for 3 hours as I needed to be back in Nottm to catch the last X99 back home from the bus station at 7.15pm about 12/6d (65p) for a good day out happy days
My old mum says she used to catch the X99 when she was a lot younger, to get to Newton Regis for holidays.
(Relatives I believe!)
Quote from: danny on February 10, 2024, 02:58:43 PMIsn't this ultimately the x3 and Litchfield to Burton x12 today, remember the 112 being in town, also remember the X12 when Midland Classic Ran it to Sutton as used to be able to get to Derby in 2 buses X12 and X38
Possibly. Others who know better can confirm or not.
Does anyone know the route of the old 333 A bloke at the Football yesterday as I mentioned to him the 997 which he gets back from Walsall was diverted down the main road, and said to him My Dad told me to never get the 997 to Birmingham as it takes ages, this started a chat, which a lad said don't get the 41 as it takes ages. I said to him I caught it once with my dad and it took 45 minutes to get from Willenhall to Stroud Aveune. It's not to bad to Walsall. He then mentioned the 69 taking ages. And this bloke then said oh the 333 took ages going all around New Invention and Coppice. I said to him I'm sure that is the 69 the 333 as I knew it ran from Walsall to Darlaston following the 34 then followed the 34 as far as Blockall where it did the modern day 37 ie Darlaston Green, Bentley into Lodge Farm, running either down Stringes Lane or Sandbeds Road to meet the 529 at Willenhall Maccies or followed the 37 now and the 40 which used to run down there to Willenhall before following the 529 to Wolverhampton like the 40 did from Portobello, the 40 only started going that way to the Temple a few years before it was withdrawn.
But did the 333 actually ever run through Coppice and New Invention following the 41, did the 41 replace it in those sections with the 333 decided to be rerouted that way before the 40 Which I believe replaced part of it's route as I know it was extended that way. I did say to him the 37 was listed as the 33 initially which is what the old 333 would be called today but they numbered it 37 after the old 327/337 which I do remember going from Walsall to Willenhall and seeing it in Darlaston many years ago did the 333 possibly replace that going the way the 37 does to Willenhall. As I was certain he had caught the 69 which goes through New Invention and Coppice
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on March 07, 2024, 02:46:27 PMDoes anyone know the route of the old 333 A bloke at the Football yesterday as I mentioned to him the 997 which he gets back from Walsall was diverted down the main road, and said to him My Dad told me to never get the 997 to Birmingham as it takes ages, this started a chat, which a lad said don't get the 41 as it takes ages. I said to him I caught it once with my dad and it took 45 minutes to get from Willenhall to Stroud Aveune. It's not to bad to Walsall. He then mentioned the 69 taking ages. And this bloke then said oh the 333 took ages going all around New Invention and Coppice. I said to him I'm sure that is the 69 the 333 as I knew it ran from Walsall to Darlaston following the 34 then followed the 34 as far as Blockall where it did the modern day 37 ie Darlaston Green, Bentley into Lodge Farm, running either down Stringes Lane or Sandbeds Road to meet the 529 at Willenhall Maccies or followed the 37 now and the 40 which used to run down there to Willenhall before following the 529 to Wolverhampton like the 40 did from Portobello, the 40 only started going that way to the Temple a few years before it was withdrawn.
But did the 333 actually ever run through Coppice and New Invention following the 41, did the 41 replace it in those sections with the 333 decided to be rerouted that way before the 40 Which I believe replaced part of it's route as I know it was extended that way. I did say to him the 37 was listed as the 33 initially which is what the old 333 would be called today but they numbered it 37 after the old 327/337 which I do remember going from Walsall to Willenhall and seeing it in Darlaston many years ago did the 333 possibly replace that going the way the 37 does to Willenhall. As I was certain he had caught the 69 which goes through New Invention and Coppice
Did you download the maps I put up the other week?
I did download those maps, and I also remember catching the 333 quite a bit. It did take forever to get from Walsall to Wolverhampton.
According to the map dated from the early 90s (the 350/351 were still running), the 333 ran from Walsall direct to Darlaston, then Darlaston Green, County Bridge, Bentley, Lodge Farm, Willenhall, Portabello, Moseley towards Bilston (map then cuts off) and from Bilston, it went to Wolverhampton although I don't think it went directly there. I think your recollection was better than his.
Map shows 341 snaking around New Invention and a 364 circling around Coppice Farm.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 07, 2024, 04:59:11 PMI did download those maps, and I also remember catching the 333 quite a bit. It did take forever to get from Walsall to Wolverhampton.
According to the map dated from the early 90s (the 350/351 were still running), the 333 ran from Walsall direct to Darlaston, then Darlaston Green, County Bridge, Bentley, Lodge Farm, Willenhall, Portabello, Moseley towards Bilston (map then cuts off) and from Bilston, it went to Wolverhampton although I don't think it went directly there. I think your recollection was better than his.
Map shows 341 snaking around New Invention and a 364 circling around Coppice Farm.
To be honest, as the Centro onwards maps were scanned in sections, I would've thought some clever soul might've stitched the sections together, but never mind eh!
Didn't the 333 originally serve the Deans Road area?
(There's a challenge for someone. Locate as many Wolves maps as poss & upload, like I did with Walsall!)
Quote from: Westy on March 07, 2024, 05:53:27 PMTo be honest, as the Centro onwards maps were scanned in sections, I would've thought some clever soul might've stitched the sections together, but never mind eh!
Didn't the 333 originally serve the Deans Road area?
(There's a challenge for someone. Locate as many Wolves maps as poss & upload, like I did with Walsall!)
The 333 partly replaced the 531. It ran from Walsall Bradford Place (the 531 had started from the old St Paul's Bus Station) along the same route as the current 37 to Willenhall. From there it joined the 529 route but diverted off to serve Portobello emerging on Moseley Road near the fishing pool and Grapes pub. It then followed the 545 (now 82) route into Wolverhampton past Dean's High School. It never served Bilston.
The 531 if I recall served the same route between Wolverhampton and Bentley but then followed a different route into Walsall emerging on to the 529 route on the other side of the M6 motorway. Please note there was a later 531 which ran to Rocket Pool via Bilston.
As to the 69, it was originally the 369 and followed the same route as today's 69 from Walsall but I think it then ran from Coppice Farm to Willenhall via the 41 route. The 364 terminated at Coppice Farm Estate running a one-way clockwise loop.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 07, 2024, 09:22:04 PMThe 333 partly replaced the 531. It ran from Walsall Bradford Place (the 531 had started from the old St Paul's Bus Station) along the same route as the current 37 to Willenhall. From there it joined the 529 route but diverted off to serve Portobello emerging on Moseley Road near the fishing pool and Grapes pub. It then followed the 545 (now 82) route into Wolverhampton past Dean's High School. It never served Bilston.
The 531 if I recall served the same route between Wolverhampton and Bentley but then followed a different route into Walsall emerging on to the 529 route on the other side of the M6 motorway. Please note there was a later 531 which ran to Rocket Pool via Bilston.
As to the 69, it was originally the 369 and followed the same route as today's 69 from Walsall but I think it then ran from Coppice Farm to Willenhall via the 41 route. The 364 terminated at Coppice Farm Estate running a one-way clockwise loop.
531 continued from Bentley joining the 341 route via Reedswood Park, Bentley Lane, Hollyhedge Lane and Wolverhampton Road to Walsall as the 41 does now.
333 was the same as the 37 to Willenhall (Never through New Invention), then it followed the 529 to Portobello Island, New Street, Vaughan Road, Hill Road and onto the Moseley Road. From the Moseley Road it followed the 544/545/546 to Wolverhampton (via Deans Road) but went a different route in the city centre - into Wolverhampton Bus Station via the Ring Road and Broad Street. Then not long before withdrawal, from the Moseley Road it followed the 529 straight down the Willenhall Road which always seemed a bit pointless.
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on March 08, 2024, 12:53:09 AM333 was the same as the 37 to Willenhall (Never through New Invention), then it followed the 529 to Portobello Island, New Street, Vaughan Road, Hill Road and onto the Moseley Road. From the Moseley Road it followed the 544/545/546 to Wolverhampton (via Deans Road) but went a different route in the city centre - into Wolverhampton Bus Station via the Ring Road and Broad Street. Then not long before withdrawal, from the Moseley Road it followed the 529 straight down the Willenhall Road which always seemed a bit pointless.
I thought it did wasn't sure after Wolverhampton so yeah The bloke caught the 69 if he went through Coppice
Anyone got any bus route maps of Wolverhampton from the 2000's? Would be great to have the City Centre too, map of the old Bus Station and what routes stopped where
I remember maybe 2014/15 maybe eairler when my Nan lived in Elderly Accomdation on Sandbeds Road in Willenhall seeing an NX Dennis Trident go past on the 28 where did the 28 go I know it Started in Wolverhampton and went Via Willenhall and New Invention but did I thought it went to Bilston so am trying to figure out the route if it did or did it go to Bloxwhich and do what the old 60 used to do and now the Current 9 and go via New Invention to Bloxwhich. But then that would have been covered by the 89 so I'm not sure which way it went
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on September 05, 2024, 02:15:44 PMI remember maybe 2014/15 maybe eairler when my Nan lived in Elderly Accomdation on Sandbeds Road in Willenhall seeing an NX Dennis Trident go past on the 28 where did the 28 go I know it Started in Wolverhampton and went Via Willenhall and New Invention but did I thought it went to Bilston so am trying to figure out the route if it did or did it go to Bloxwhich and do what the old 60 used to do and now the Current 9 and go via New Invention to Bloxwhich. But then that would have been covered by the 89 so I'm not sure which way it went
I think it was Willenhall to Wolves via New Invention, using the 41 to New Invention, then the now 69 route to Wolves.
(If u were around when I uploaded my old Walsall maps up sometime back, the answer should be on one of those files!)
It may have been what had been the 528 which ran from Wolves to Bilston via Wood End, Ashmore Park and Willenhall and if I recall did serve New Invention.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 05, 2024, 04:50:45 PMIt may have been what had been the 528 which ran from Wolves to Bilston via Wood End, Ashmore Park and Willenhall and if I recall did serve New Invention.
528 didnt serve New Invention.
Found it on a Google map image from 2015. The service was 28E, not 28, and ran between Wolverhampton and Willenhall via New Invention and New Cross on evenings and Sundays. It was a tendered service also operated by Midland and Arriva at one time.
The 28 ran between New Invention and Wolves I think via Wood End and Ashmore Park.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 05, 2024, 08:34:51 PMFound it on a Google map image from 2015. The service was 28E, not 28, and ran between Ashmore Park and Willenhall via New Invention on evenings and Sundays. It was a tendered service also operated by Midland and Arriva at one time.
The 28 ran between New Invention and Wolves I think via Wood End and Ashmore Park.
Just checked Walsall May 2015 map & the 28 (daytimes) used the 41 route between Willenhall & New Invention, while the 28e ran via the 326 route evenings & Sundays, briefly restoring a evening & Sunday service along that section ditched in the late 80's / early 90's at a rough guess?
Quote from: Westy on September 05, 2024, 10:50:28 PMJust checked Walsall May 2015 map & the 28 (daytimes) used the 41 route between Willenhall & New Invention, while the 28e ran via the 326 route evenings & Sundays, briefly restoring a evening & Sunday service along that section ditched in the late 80's / early 90's at a rough guess?
Yep, if I recall the 28E was replaced by the 40 (until that service was withdrawn) but due to Competitions commision investigating the sale of Arriva's Wednesfield operations to Rotala, all services had to continue to be operated as current resulting in both the 28E and 40 running at the same time.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 06, 2024, 10:37:42 AMYep, if I recall the 28E was replaced by the 40 (until that service was withdrawn) but due to Competitions commision investigating the sale of Arriva's Wednesfield operations to Rotala, all services had to continue to be operated as current resulting in both the 28E and 40 running at the same time.
I remember Diamond sending VDL Wright Commander Buses or Darts on the 28E and also Arriva Darts I wouldn't have imagined the 40 replaced it. The 40 ran through Lodge Farm and Oringnally ran down the current 37 route down Stringes Lane to come into Willenhall neat the Vets and Morrisons Petrol Station. The 40 was then sent to follow the 529 as far as Willenhall Maccies/Temple then turned Left Onto Clarkes Lane then ran along Sandbeds Road as far as Lodge Farm. I remember when I used to visit my Nan if me and my Dad didn't either do her shopping in Willenhall Tesco and get on a 333X or 9 that were being diverted down Owen Road due to the bridge Works in Bentley to Wolverson Close, we would go to Morrisons in Willenhall where my dad would use his NX Pass and pay for me to get on either the 40 or 41 to get to Lodge Farm. The 40 was quicker the 41 took a long time to get to Lodge Farm and we had to walk it from Birchtree Hollow to Wolverson Close onto Sandbeds Road
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on September 06, 2024, 10:55:29 AMI remember Diamond sending VDL Wright Commander Buses or Darts on the 28E and also Arriva Darts I wouldn't have imagined the 40 replaced it. The 40 ran through Lodge Farm and Oringnally ran down the current 37 route down Stringes Lane to come into Willenhall neat the Vets and Morrisons Petrol Station. The 40 was then sent to follow the 529 as far as Willenhall Maccies/Temple then turned Left Onto Clarkes Lane then ran along Sandbeds Road as far as Lodge Farm. I remember when I used to visit my Nan if me and my Dad didn't either do her shopping in Willenhall Tesco and get on a 333X or 9 that were being diverted down Owen Road due to the bridge Works in Bentley to Wolverson Close, we would go to Morrisons in Willenhall where my dad would use his NX Pass and pay for me to get on either the 40 or 41 to get to Lodge Farm. The 40 was quicker the 41 took a long time to get to Lodge Farm and we had to walk it from Birchtree Hollow to Wolverson Close onto Sandbeds Road
Think you are correct in at least part but I do remember one of the Arriva drivers stating how the 40 left Willenhall just ahead of them and more customers had just started using the 28E when it was withdrawn. This would be when the 40 continued to Wolverhampton I think. Think also that was when the 69 was extended to replace in part the section of 28/28E to Wolverhampton via New Cross etc
28, 28E came about in July 2011, replacing parts of the 369 (between Willenhall and New Invention) and the 528 (between Ashmore Park and Wolverhampton, though the section via New Cross Hospital was new, the 528 having previously gone down Thorneycroft Road and Cannock Road into Wolverhampton, rather than through Heath Town.).
Initially, the 28E was numbered that because it was a short working of the 28 on evenings & Sundays to New Invention only. After a while, the 28 having changed route in Wood End slightly so as to serve Wood End Road, rather than Bellamy Lane as it did upon starting, with the 28E staying via Bellamy Lane. It started under Midland, passing to Arriva when Arriva acquired Midland.
October 2014 saw the 28E extended to Willenhall along the 326's route, putting a bus back down Lane Head for the first time since the 342 went at the 2011 Review - the 326 Sunday service being withdrawn in 2007 - and now interworking with the 27 (Wolverhampton to Dudley via Sedgley and Gornal Wood)
The 28 would be withdrawn in July 2016, replaced by the 69 being rerouted along its route between Wolverhampton and Ashmore Park. The 28E would soldier on a little bit longer, surviving long enough to pass to Diamond in April 2017 when Arriva pulled out of Wednesfield, being withdrawn on 22nd October 2017, and replaced by the 69 running Sundays; the evening journeys being dropped entirely.
As for vehicles on there, it was mostly Arriva's fleet of mini Pointer Darts and SB120/Cadets, though the 21xx E200s did appear when Wednesfield had them, and some of Wednesfield's oddballs occasionally escaped onto there (I had B10BLE 3618 on there one time in September 2015, and a DLA got on there at least once around the same time)
The 40 started at the same time as the 28, and at least according to Centro literature of the time, replaced the 333 and 340 (the 340 between Walsall and Stroud Avenue, and the 333 between there and Wolverhampton).
Originally, the route ran down Stringes Lane into Willenhall, but was rerouted along Clarkes Lane and Shepwell Green into Willenhall around 2014; the section via Deansfield being dropped at the same time iirc. The 40 would be withdrawn in July 2016, and replaced by the 37 running over the original 333 route (via Darlaston) and an increased 41.
Quote from: Midland 2541 on September 26, 2024, 04:40:53 PM28, 28E came about in July 2011, replacing parts of the 369 (between Willenhall and New Invention) and the 528 (between Ashmore Park and Wolverhampton, though the section via New Cross Hospital was new, the 528 having previously gone down Thorneycroft Road and Cannock Road into Wolverhampton, rather than through Heath Town.).
Initially, the 28E was numbered that because it was a short working of the 28 on evenings & Sundays to New Invention only. After a while, the 28 having changed route in Wood End slightly so as to serve Wood End Road, rather than Bellamy Lane as it did upon starting, with the 28E staying via Bellamy Lane. It started under Midland, passing to Arriva when Arriva acquired Midland.
October 2014 saw the 28E extended to Willenhall along the 326's route, putting a bus back down Lane Head for the first time since the 342 went at the 2011 Review - the 326 Sunday service being withdrawn in 2007 - and now interworking with the 27 (Wolverhampton to Dudley via Sedgley and Gornal Wood)
The 28 would be withdrawn in July 2016, replaced by the 69 being rerouted along its route between Wolverhampton and Ashmore Park. The 28E would soldier on a little bit longer, surviving long enough to pass to Diamond in April 2017 when Arriva pulled out of Wednesfield, being withdrawn on 22nd October 2017, and replaced by the 69 running Sundays; the evening journeys being dropped entirely.
As for vehicles on there, it was mostly Arriva's fleet of mini Pointer Darts and SB120/Cadets, though the 21xx E200s did appear when Wednesfield had them, and some of Wednesfield's oddballs occasionally escaped onto there (I had B10BLE 3618 on there one time in September 2015, and a DLA got on there at least once around the same time)
The 40 started at the same time as the 28, and at least according to Centro literature of the time, replaced the 333 and 340 (the 340 between Walsall and Stroud Avenue, and the 333 between there and Wolverhampton).
Originally, the route ran down Stringes Lane into Willenhall, but was rerouted along Clarkes Lane and Shepwell Green into Willenhall around 2014; the section via Deansfield being dropped at the same time iirc. The 40 would be withdrawn in July 2016, and replaced by the 37 running over the original 333 route (via Darlaston) and an increased 41.
The 37 is just an old 333E they should have numbered the 37 to the 33
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on September 26, 2024, 04:50:36 PMThe 37 is just an old 333E they should have numbered the 37 to the 33
It was originally - the consultation document from earlier in 2016 explicitly calls it the 33, not the 37. Exactly when in the process it changed to 37, I'm not sure.
This didn't happen, in the same way that the planned route of the 37 via the Manor Hospital (which made it as far as being printed onto Centro issued timetables of the time, though it never ran that route) didn't happen.
The 443 used to be operated by Midland Red. Any idea when this service first started & when it ended?
Quote from: Midland 2541 on September 26, 2024, 04:59:22 PMIt was originally - the consultation document from earlier in 2016 explicitly calls it the 33, not the 37. Exactly when in the process it changed to 37, I'm not sure.
This didn't happen, in the same way that the planned route of the 37 via the Manor Hospital (which made it as far as being printed onto Centro issued timetables of the time, though it never ran that route) didn't happen.
I assume the Planned 37 would have replaced the 38 and maybe a 337 which I believe ran to Willenhall but ran via the other way of Stroud Aveune
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on September 26, 2024, 06:24:35 PMI assume the Planned 37 would have replaced the 38 and maybe a 337 which I believe ran to Willenhall but ran via the other way of Stroud Aveune
Wasn't the 337 only as far as Darlaston? Then replaced by the 333E's?
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on September 26, 2024, 06:24:35 PMI assume the Planned 37 would have replaced the 38 and maybe a 337 which I believe ran to Willenhall but ran via the other way of Stroud Aveune
The map on the first print showed it as replacing the 38, yes.
It never ran this route though.
The 337 was just Walsall to Darlaston via Pleck, and was bought in to compete with Travel A2Z's 338 (itself a short working to Darlaston only) during the late 2000s, and lasted until 2009, when it was renumbered to 333E.
The only things that have served the other part of Stroud Avenue are services terminating in Lodge Farm - so the Sunday evening 37s until Jan 2023, the 9 between 2010 and 2014, and the 331/332 in their last forms.
Quote from: Jay71 on September 26, 2024, 05:31:39 PMThe 443 used to be operated by Midland Red. Any idea when this service first started & when it ended?
The 443 was introduced in 1986 at deregulation as a Tendered service by Midland Red West, not sure when it ended.
Quote from: D10 on September 26, 2024, 08:27:38 PMThe 443 was introduced in 1986 at deregulation as a Tendered service by Midland Red West, not sure when it ended.
Thanks
Quote from: Midland 2541 on September 26, 2024, 06:59:17 PMThe map on the first print showed it as replacing the 38, yes.
It never ran this route though.
The 337 was just Walsall to Darlaston via Pleck, and was bought in to compete with Travel A2Z's 338 (itself a short working to Darlaston only) during the late 2000s, and lasted until 2009, when it was renumbered to 333E.
The only things that have served the other part of Stroud Avenue are services terminating in Lodge Farm - so the Sunday evening 37s until Jan 2023, the 9 between 2010 and 2014, and the 331/332 in their last forms.
333L Briefly to I think and ah yes so the 337/338 was basically the short version of the later 38 which was replaced briefly by an extension of the 75 from Birmingham to serve Darlaston Road although the 79 could run down there and the 38/37 could have served Dangerfield Lane to replace the 79. The 38 interworked with the 34 in the days of the B10L's and I believe did serve the Manor in both Directions so to Walsall and to Wednesbury. The 39 was run separately to Wolverhampton. I believe at one point these services ran every 6 minutes between Walsall and Darlaston the 34 and 39 being the more frequent.
Then as I moved into an estate of the Darlaston Road I remember the 38 still running with the Scania's. They them added a 34A to serve Rough Hay I believe it basically did a loop of Rough Hay and then came back to Darlaston as where it said it terminated at Michael Road doesn't have a Turning Circle unless it somehow did a u turn at the end of Hall Street. This made the Darlaston corridor even more frequent they may have reduced the 38 or even scrapped it at this point. The 39 then replaced the 39 around the Manor and the 34 was withdrawn from Stowlawn to serving Bilston only with the 39 curtailed to Bilston a couple of years before from Wolverhampton then was extended to Stowlawn which probably saw a service decrease from the 34. I fully believe the 37 was then decided to fill in the old 40 route as that was the only NX Route around Lodge Farm after Birchtree Hollow and that is why they extended it. But initially it would have probably replaced 34 shorts to Darlaston and helped keep the frequency the same.
NX then withdrew the 37 because of competition of Thandi who were more in competitive with the Sandwell Travel 333X that was then scrapped when Sandwell Travel got banned from Operating. NX may have saw that gap and decided to run and extend the 37 as opposed to maybe replacing the 40 from St Paul's maybe with a 41A. They then scrapped it when Thandi upped the frequency to every 15 minutes. Thandi then went bust/stop Operating and NX reinstated it. I remember the 37 used to interwork with the 41 of an evening which interworked with the 6 and 7 so you got Double Deckers of an evening of it. Now It interworks with mostly the 34 during the Day and the 39 of an Evening usually it or the 34 a board of that goes onto to do the last 39 of the day. The 37 still interworks with the 41/6/7. The 37 also replaced the last 34 of the night from Walsall to Darlaston.
The big gap during all this is the 38 used to run at 4AM the first bus and that was to get Nurses and other staff from Darlaston/Wednesbury not sure where it started to the Manor and I believe it did a return to Wednesbury and then either became the first 34 from Darlo to Walsall or the first 34 from Walsall to Darlo with the 38 resuming at 6AM, the 39 now starts at 6AM and I know the 4AM 38 was always well used by the Hospital Staff they now either have to get the 34 and walk it up Pleck Road or get a cab or lift to the Hospital or if there closer to the 529 walk into Willenhall and get that to Pleck Road and walk it. So in a way the 33/37 wasn't just replacing the 40 it would replace the 38 and then probably the 34A as it would to Darlaston only and then from all of this didn't serve the Manor and basically became a shortened version of the old 333 terminating at Willenhall. They then relaunched it as a Short between Willenhall and Darlaston to replace the Thandi 37 before deciding to once again reintroduce it to the 34 and 39 to make the Darlaston Corridor frequent
34A came in in October 2015 as a frequency boost (iirc, they were all every 20 minutes, so combined to be every 5 minutes between Walsall and Darlaston) along the Darlaston corridor, and ran a loop of Rough Hay, which was:
Willenhall Street, Stafford Road, Hall Street, Hall Street East, Willenhall Street, Rough Hay Road and St Lawrence Way into Darlaston
Both the 34A and 38 went in July 2016 - the 34A not being replaced, whilst the 38 was replaced by the 39 being rerouted to serve the hospital, alongside the 75 being extended to Darlaston (which was suggested to go down Kings Hill Road to actually replace the 38, but never did, following the 79 to Darlaston instead.)
Bilston to Stowlawn being tacked onto the 39 came a bit later - initially the 39 did still continue to run to Wolverhampton after the July 2016 changes, but I believe that was withdrawn in September 2016, with it being extended in 2017 sometime.
The Thandi 37 only came in later (early 2017 rings a bell), and led to a completely unsustainable 9 buses an hour on a route that even in the days gone by only sustained 4-5 buses an hour, as NX ran their 37, Thandi theirs and Sandwell Travel continued on with the 333X until 2018.
Sandwell Travel pulled off in 2018, when they closed up (I believe it was after one of their Caetano Darts lost a wheel on the Black Country Route, but that might be my memory playing up.), and NX would pull off in the same year, leaving Thandi to run the route in the daytime, whilst NX had the evenings and Sundays.
Thandi shut up shop themselves in 2021, and NX took over the 37 as Willenhall to Darlaston initially, for about a month, before it was extended back to Walsall.
Quote from: Midland 2541 on September 26, 2024, 11:40:34 PM34A came in in October 2015 as a frequency boost (iirc, they were all every 20 minutes, so combined to be every 5 minutes between Walsall and Darlaston) along the Darlaston corridor, and ran a loop of Rough Hay, which was:
Willenhall Street, Stafford Road, Hall Street, Hall Street East, Willenhall Street, Rough Hay Road and St Lawrence Way into Darlaston
Both the 34A and 38 went in July 2016 - the 34A not being replaced, whilst the 38 was replaced by the 39 being rerouted to serve the hospital, alongside the 75 being extended to Darlaston (which was suggested to go down Kings Hill Road to actually replace the 38, but never did, following the 79 to Darlaston instead.)
Bilston to Stowlawn being tacked onto the 39 came a bit later - initially the 39 did still continue to run to Wolverhampton after the July 2016 changes, but I believe that was withdrawn in September 2016, with it being extended in 2017 sometime.
The Thandi 37 only came in later (early 2017 rings a bell), and led to a completely unsustainable 9 buses an hour on a route that even in the days gone by only sustained 4-5 buses an hour, as NX ran their 37, Thandi theirs and Sandwell Travel continued on with the 333X until 2018.
Sandwell Travel pulled off in 2018, when they closed up (I believe it was after one of their Caetano Darts lost a wheel on the Black Country Route, but that might be my memory playing up.), and NX would pull off in the same year, leaving Thandi to run the route in the daytime, whilst NX had the evenings and Sundays.
Thandi shut up shop themselves in 2021, and NX took over the 37 as Willenhall to Darlaston initially, for about a month, before it was extended back to Walsall.
Yes I remember the wheel falling of the Caetano Darts, The 37 was planned to be a bit of mixture of numerous replacements and routes a shortened 38 but then a shortened 333 which is what it is now. I still think the 39 needs to go back to Wolverhampton to give Herberts Park and Walsall a link to Wolverhampton that it isn't the 529 which can suffer delays, the longwinded 9. I think the year before the 34A, 38 changes the 79 was routed down Wolverhampton Street. Kings Hill Road is actually Darlaston Road and is the whole road is the A462 known as the Darlaston Road the whole way
does anybody remember the old 187 (Dorridge to Birmingham) or
151 Dorridge to Yardley Wood
182 Dorridge to Acocks Green
or may
183 /184 Dorridge to Solihull which later became 185 / 186 Dorridge To Cranmore Boulevard
just asking ??
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on September 28, 2024, 03:23:38 PMdoes anybody remember the old 187 (Dorridge to Birmingham) or
151 Dorridge to Yardley Wood
182 Dorridge to Acocks Green
or may
183 /184 Dorridge to Solihull which later became 185 / 186 Dorridge To Cranmore Boulevard
just asking ??
Yes - going back to the late 1970s and early 1980s. For a while Jumbo Fleetlines from Yardley Wood Garage were common on the 152 Yardley Wood Station - Knowle via Solihull and Widney Manor.
Quote from: D10 on September 26, 2024, 08:27:38 PMThe 443 was introduced in 1986 at deregulation as a Tendered service by Midland Red West, not sure when it ended.
Introduced in October 1986 half hourly Mon to Sat between Ladywood (Northbrook St) & Quinton, Ridgeway Ave via Smethwick, Londonderry, Warley, Brandhall. At some point TWM had the Sun tender, operated by Quinton depot.
By 1989 the route was extended to operate to/from Bull Ring Bus Station and curtailed to Brandhall. At this point only evening and Sundays journeys were tendered and ran to the 1986 route. The Brandhall to Quinton section was covered by the 440 with which the 443 interworked at Brandhall - the 440 went to Bearwood, Cape Hill, Handsworth, Perry Barr.
As MRW withdrew from Digbeth & West Midlands operation Birmingham Coach Company took over the route at at some point ran branded Nationals, extending the route from Brandhall to Bearwood via the MRW 440 route. The 440 was, I think, the last remaining service operated by MRW in 1999 which was extended from Bearwood to Birmingham to allow interworking with the 192 to Kidderminster.
By 2005 the 443 had been split into two parts, Pete's (People's Express by this time) were running the tendered route now curtailed to run between Bearwood & Four Dwellings, allowing 1 bus to run a 30 minute frequency. The Brandhall to Birmingham section was re-numbered 83 (to fit with the Dudley Road corridor) and operated by Birmingham Motor Traction.
At some point there was a tendered 81 that ran evenings and Sundays with VIP & Diamond having the contract at different times. Not sure when the curtailed 443 finally disappeared - possibly when Diamond re-introduced the 004 meaning passengers from Quinton could travel to Harborne, Lordswood Road and take the 11 / 448 to Bearwood
MRW also ran the 682 (now 62/62A) Wolves town centre to Compton via Asda and Dunstall when it replaced the previous free bus to the new Asda in Wolves which had been operated by Classic Coaches of Wombourne in the late 1990s but I'm not sure if they still had it in 1999.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 29, 2024, 09:36:24 PMMRW also ran the 682 (now 62/62A) Wolves town centre to Compton via Asda and Dunstall when it replaced the previous free bus to the new Asda in Wolves which had been operated by Classic Coaches of Wombourne in the late 1990s but I'm not sure if they still had it in 1999.
Zaks run the 682 for many years, using Finchfield as a destination, if I remember correctly.
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on July 22, 2024, 11:57:03 PMAnyone got any bus route maps of Wolverhampton from the 2000's? Would be great to have the City Centre too, map of the old Bus Station and what routes stopped where
I have this Wolverhampton map from July 1998. Had to compress to upload.
Looking on the list of bus routes (and numbers), its amazing to see how things have changed with the complete loss of night services and the bus route(s) across Penn Common and to Bobbington.
Back in 1975 Dial-A-Bus was trialed between Dorridge & Knowle, later extended to Solihull, the whole thing died a death in 1980, people didnt want to take 30 minutes to get to knowle when they could get a 182 that did it in 10 minutes, some people even walked, however, this is my question and probably in the wrong place
Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
athough for lesser abled people
it picks you up at your door, takes you exactly where you wanna go (to the door) takes forever to get there but its CHEAP & The Buses (more like vans) are knackered
i recently had a ride on a 17 reg, the driver had to rev the nuts off just to keep it going, with only 3 passengers on board, anyway the question was Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 17, 2024, 03:53:34 PMBack in 1975 Dial-A-Bus was trialed between Dorridge & Knowle, later extended to Solihull, the whole thing died a death in 1980, people didnt want to take 30 minutes to get to knowle when they could get a 182 that did it in 10 minutes, some people even walked, however, this is my question and probably in the wrong place
Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
athough for lesser abled people
it picks you up at your door, takes you exactly where you wanna go (to the door) takes forever to get there but its CHEAP & The Buses (more like vans) are knackered
i recently had a ride on a 17 reg, the driver had to rev the nuts off just to keep it going, with only 3 passengers on board, anyway the question was Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
Wasnt Dial A Bus a Jasper Carrott routine?
it was real i assure you operated by 8 Ford Alexander S Midibuses 4730 - 4737 JOV 730P etc assisted by 2 Commer Walkthroughs 4238 & 4241 EOF 238L / EOF 241L
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 17, 2024, 04:00:21 PMit was real i assure you operated by 8 Ford Alexander S Midibuses 4730 - 4737 JOV 730P etc assisted by 2 Commer Walkthroughs 4238 & 4241 EOF 238L / EOF 241L
The five short National 2's (7048-7052) were originally for Dial A Bus, but went to PB for the old 39 route (City-Witton) before finding the perfect route which was the 101 (Centrebus)
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 17, 2024, 04:04:55 PMThe five short National 2's (7048-7052) were originally for Dial A Bus, but went to PB for the old 39 route (City-Witton) before finding the perfect route which was the 101 (Centrebus)
they did eventually use anything that was handy, Single deck Fleetlines, Leyland Nationals 4475, 6829 & 6830 then 7018 to 7026 when new, the national 2 was perfect but too late, 4475 etc had a problem with the fish tail exhaust when turning left for the D1 under the bridge that why the Nat 2 was used instead
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 17, 2024, 03:53:34 PMBack in 1975 Dial-A-Bus was trialed between Dorridge & Knowle, later extended to Solihull, the whole thing died a death in 1980, people didnt want to take 30 minutes to get to knowle when they could get a 182 that did it in 10 minutes, some people even walked, however, this is my question and probably in the wrong place
Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
athough for lesser abled people
it picks you up at your door, takes you exactly where you wanna go (to the door) takes forever to get there but its CHEAP & The Buses (more like vans) are knackered
i recently had a ride on a 17 reg, the driver had to rev the nuts off just to keep it going, with only 3 passengers on board, anyway the question was Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
Yes. Operated by ATG (part of National Express Group), the Ring & Ride service is basically the same as Dial-a-Ride. Ring & Ride mostly uses the vehicles inherited from WMSNT I believe.
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 17, 2024, 03:53:34 PMBack in 1975 Dial-A-Bus was trialed between Dorridge & Knowle, later extended to Solihull, the whole thing died a death in 1980, people didnt want to take 30 minutes to get to knowle when they could get a 182 that did it in 10 minutes, some people even walked, however, this is my question and probably in the wrong place
Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
athough for lesser abled people
it picks you up at your door, takes you exactly where you wanna go (to the door) takes forever to get there but its CHEAP & The Buses (more like vans) are knackered
i recently had a ride on a 17 reg, the driver had to rev the nuts off just to keep it going, with only 3 passengers on board, anyway the question was Isnt Ring & Ride a modified version of Dial-A-Bus ?
"Dial-A-Bus" sounds to me what is now called "Demand Responsive Transport" (DRT) :rolleyes:
Only nowadays it's all booked through 'apps' on mobile devices. Many local authorities across the UK have been racing to set these up in the last few years, at huge costs, using BSIP money, replacing many lesser used 'fixed' bus routes, yet very few are successful and most come to an end once the initial funding runs out, due to lack of use or just proving too expensive to run.
Roger French writes extensively about his own experiences of these DRT schemes on his blog:
https://busandtrainuser.com/a-short-history-of-drt/
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 17, 2024, 04:09:01 PMthey did eventually use anything that was handy, Single deck Fleetlines, Leyland Nationals 4475, 6829 & 6830 then 7018 to 7026 when new, the national 2 was perfect but too late, 4475 etc had a problem with the fish tail exhaust when turning left for the D1 under the bridge that why the Nat 2 was used instead
The Centrebus originally threaded itself through various pedestrianised streets (eg Union Street) and operated by 6 Commer minibuses in standard PTE livery, later changed to bright orange (4236-41 EOF236L etc). The route was modified and became much more useful, and much more heavily used such as it outgrew the minibuses. They were replaced with a batch of ex BCT Fleetline single deckers. The Commers were used as cover in certain situations after this
As
@Celestial Toymaker has said, the short Nationals were purchased to replace the dial a bus Fords, which were unreliable. However the dial a bus experiment was replaced by various new normal routes and the Nationals were sent to PB for the 39, and then replaced the time expired Fleetlines on the Centrebus service at least up to deregulation. AG did receive a batch of new standard Nationals (7018 onwards) which were used at Solihull, rather than the short ones originally intended.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 17, 2024, 06:36:57 PMYes. Operated by ATG (part of National Express Group), the Ring & Ride service is basically the same as Dial-a-Ride. Ring & Ride mostly uses the vehicles inherited from WMSNT I believe.
ATG was never part of National Express. It was the company that went insolvent that NX bought the assets from
Quote from: Tony on October 17, 2024, 08:56:14 PMATG was never part of National Express. It was the company that went insolvent that NX bought the assets from
Sorry, my mistake. Thanks.
Could anyone tell me what route the old 545 took from Dudley to Merry Hill? I'm sure it went down Pear Tree Lane, but where else did it go? Anyone got a route map that shows it?
From looking at old maps on ebay: Blowers Green Road, Peartree Lane, Pedmore Road.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196564068107?_trksid=p2332490.c101224.m-1
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/197044418258?_trksid=p2332490.c101224.m-1
Yeah can see Pear Tree Lane on the map, can't see where it went in Dudley am I missing something?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196487454513?_trksid=p2332490.c101224.m-1
Sorry I pasted the wrong one.
Goes around the King Street/High Street one way bit, then to the bus station, then out up Tipton Road (if you look at the inset in the bottom right).