In last couple of weeks service 13 Willenhall reliability isnt just poor it is ...............!!!! This is not a new problem by any means.
Frequently 3 late running buses turn up together in both directions. There are quite a few passengers getting very hacked off with TC. TC must know already so I am surprised nothing has been done about it at the September review. Is something going to happen soon before TC lose their passengers?
TC need to say why they allow the problem to fester. Like to hear the official line.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on September 24, 2019, 10:36:46 AM
In last couple of weeks service 13 Willenhall reliability isnt just poor it is ...............!!!! This is not a new problem by any means.
Frequently 3 late running buses turn up together in both directions. There are quite a few passengers getting very hacked off with TC. TC must know already so I am surprised nothing has been done about it at the September review. Is something going to happen soon before TC lose their passengers?
TC need to say why they allow the problem to fester. Like to hear the official line.
It was obviously an ominous sign when the 13 to Willenhall was changed to depart from stop HS2 in Hales Street.
Quote from: JoNi on September 24, 2019, 08:33:37 PM
It was obviously an ominous sign when the 13 to Willenhall was changed to depart from stop HS2 in Hales Street.
Too true! And it stinks like heck by the bus shelter - reckon there is a problem with the sewers.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on September 25, 2019, 07:20:22 AM
Too true! And it stinks like heck by the bus shelter - reckon there is a problem with the sewers.
I'm sure the council will take a complaint if you wish to make one!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.coventry.gov.uk/info/201/street_scene/758/sewer_blockages_and_maintenance/2&ved=2ahUKEwiGsoe49OvkAhWrQxUIHc1nCq4QFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0meOQLc4loaQiuBYtw2BEw
Quote from: Sandy Lane on September 24, 2019, 10:36:46 AM
In last couple of weeks service 13 Willenhall reliability isnt just poor it is ...............!!!! This is not a new problem by any means.
Yes, it continues to get even worse! This morning into town after 9am classic none for heck of a time and 2 turn up! . In the peak appalling. Surprised nowt is being done about it. A desperate situation needs drastic action - needs de-linking from the Holbrooks route.
And it must now be at serious level as the route is being split in two for a time due to the Binley road road works.
Starts Sun 9th october.
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/service-updates/change-to-the-1313a-service
Wonder if it will stay split for ever?
The rail strikes sure don't help this situation either
QuoteThe rail strikes sure don't help this situation either
The rail strikes are actually making the situation worse with more people using bus
Quote from: BBS on October 07, 2022, 11:55:30 PMThe rail strikes are actually making the situation worse with more people using bus
Can see what you are saying about other places. But how does that fit with 13 to Willenhall as there are no local rail stations between Coventry and Rugby even if the railway goes straight through Willenhall.
QuoteCan see what you are saying about other places. But how does that fit with 13 to Willenhall as there are no local rail stations between Coventry and Rugby even if the railway goes straight through Willenhall
Im not entirely sure about Coventry because I live in Solihull, but maybe some people do commuting and using trains then buses etc to places
This new split 13 seems to be working decently so far, just need to see how it works when the rail strikes are on since Binley Road especially will be hectic
Since the 13 route split the destination blinds show
Out of town Willenhall
Into town Coventry which looks odd as Willenhall is defo a part of Coventry. How quick can a City Centre blind be typed in?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on October 14, 2022, 06:09:44 PMSince the 13 route split the destination blinds show
Out of town Willenhall
Into town Coventry which looks odd as Willenhall is defo a part of Coventry. How quick can a City Centre blind be typed in?
I don't think we will ever get a "city centre" update
Quote from: Danthebusman on October 10, 2022, 12:50:51 PMThis new split 13 seems to be working decently so far, just need to see how it works when the rail strikes are on since Binley Road especially will be hectic
If this was a permanent arrangement (which I doubt it will be) I suppose they could resurrect the number '15' for the City - Whitmore Park segment, as numbered pre 21st April 1985 !
Would be nice to have timetables available instead of just guessing when the 13 to holbrooks will turn up
It seems the 13 has now been permanently split as the timetables in holbrooks now only show the bus going to hales street
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on January 27, 2023, 09:44:08 AMIt seems the 13 has now been permanently split as the timetables in holbrooks now only show the bus going to hales street
If the split is permanent I hope that one side gets a different route number, as it could be confusing to some people.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on January 27, 2023, 02:06:07 PMIf the split is permanent I hope that one side gets a different route number, as it could be confusing to some people.
The number '15' is available. The northern leg of the 13 I refer to - and harks back to pre-April 1985 when the 15 did run to Whitmore Park!
An extension of the 13/13A from 1st September.
Coventry to Segro Park via Willenhall.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/625837/
Quote from: 2206 on July 21, 2024, 11:22:23 PMAn extension of the 13/13A from 1st September.
Coventry to Segro Park via Willenhall.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/625837/
Segro Park appears to be close to Coventry Airport (the other side of the runway from a Rowley Rd perspective) - that's quite a long extension from Willenhall for the 13 ! (I assume this will be some peak time journeys).
Quote from: 2206 on July 21, 2024, 11:22:23 PMAn extension of the 13/13A from 1st September.
Coventry to Segro Park via Willenhall.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/625837/
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 22, 2024, 07:10:25 PMSegro Park appears to be close to Coventry Airport (the other side of the runway from a Rowley Rd perspective) - that's quite a long extension from Willenhall for the 13 ! (I assume this will be some peak time journeys).
At a guess, I would say it will probably just be the 13A journeys that get extended, presumably Segro are providing some funding for this.
Quote from: Stu on July 22, 2024, 07:43:48 PMAt a guess, I would say it will probably just be the 13A journeys that get extended, presumably Segro are providing some funding for this.
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 22, 2024, 07:10:25 PMSegro Park appears to be close to Coventry Airport (the other side of the runway from a Rowley Rd perspective) - that's quite a long extension from Willenhall for the 13 ! (I assume this will be some peak time journeys).
This extension from Willenhall is at least 3 miles and makes the end to end journey around 40 minutes, a bit long yes but had it been a new direct bus service between the City Centre and Segro it would probably be double the cost to cover the assumed 30 minute frequency/intervals, combining with the 13 service also directly links Segro with several working class residential districts so in that respect I don't think it should be the 13A journeys which extend to Segro.
Quote from: JPC on July 22, 2024, 09:45:39 PMThis extension from Willenhall is at least 3 miles and makes the end to end journey around 40 minutes, a bit long yes but had it been a new direct bus service between the City Centre and Segro it would probably be double the cost to cover the assumed 30 minute frequency/intervals, combining with the 13 service also directly links Segro with several working class residential districts so in that respect I don't think it should be the 13A journeys which extend to Segro.
We've got the blinds already for it and the 13 will be also going there not just the 13A
Could the 13 be the route that's getting a PVR increase?
Will this be a 13 route extension from Remembrance Rd, Willenhall?
How will it get to Segro as there are two possible routes from what I can see?
1. London Road, Siskin Drive and up to the top end of the Middlemarch Ind Estate and then into Segro?
or 2. London Road, Rowley Road and then use the new Orchard Way and Bubbenhall Road into Segro?
QuoteWill this be a 13 route extension from Remembrance Rd, Willenhall?
How will it get to Segro as there are two possible routes from what I can see?
1. London Road, Siskin Drive and up to the top end of the Middlemarch Ind Estate and then into Segro?
or 2. London Road, Rowley Road and then use the new Orchard Way and Bubbenhall Road into Segro?
Isn't the option 1 served by the 21A?
Quote from: BBS on July 23, 2024, 11:20:36 AMIsn't the option 1 served by the 21A?
I''m guessing it will use this entrance off the Bubbenhall Road onto Segro Park.
Bubbenhall Rd - Google Maps (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3621759,-1.4905864,3a,90y,138.99h,80.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syR29V0WdoT2phKWjAw7rqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
I'd hope at least that if both buses were going to Segro they'd go via Baginton to improve their bus provision.
Quote from: 2206 on July 23, 2024, 11:37:25 AMI''m guessing it will use this entrance off the Bubbenhall Road onto Segro Park.
Bubbenhall Rd - Google Maps (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3621759,-1.4905864,3a,90y,138.99h,80.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syR29V0WdoT2phKWjAw7rqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
That would be the one I would bet on as well.
Offers a bus service to the recently opened Battery Industrialization Centre, the aircraft museum and the new land set aside for Jaguar manufacturing
Could also give the top end of Baginton a better service instead of the 24/25
QuoteI''m guessing it will use this entrance off the Bubbenhall Road onto Segro Park.
Bubbenhall Rd - Google Maps (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3621759,-1.4905864,3a,90y,138.99h,80.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syR29V0WdoT2phKWjAw7rqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu)
Best entrance for it imo, the 24/25 is the current only routes to serve that area with a horrid frequency
That begs the question why not just run an off-shoot service of the 21 (as a notional '21B' or even just as now, 21A). I suppose, as JPC mentions above in message 2252, that would presumably miss out running through Willenhall/Binley etc, where it is likely many workers at this site, live (and increase costs of running a service like that).
If you are going to massively lengthen a service to reach Segro Park, presumably they must have looked at extending the 17/17A alongside Fenside Ave to Leaf Lane to the Festival roundabout and then Scimitar Way/Firefly Rd/Orchard Way/Bubbenhall Rd. Or even extending the 9 from the Finham area through Mill Hill/Coventry Rd into Baginton. That would have created complications on service provision - drivers, vehicles etc.
There is, as also mentioned, two obvious ways from Willenhall; St James' Lane, London Rd, Toll Bar End, Rowley Rd, then Orchard Way. The alternative being (after Toll Bar End) Siskin Drive, Siskin Parkway, but is there a connection from there via that White Rose Way to this site? It looks like the Toll Bar End roundabout won't be avoided whatever happens.
There was, until the very late 1960s (or early 70s) a service 13 that went to the Ryton Works (Rootes Group as was I assume) unless that was the aviation company works on Siskin Drive (?). Whatever it was, a service '13' went that way.
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 23, 2024, 05:39:20 PMThere was, until the very late 1960s (or early 70s) a service 13 that went to the Ryton Works (Rootes Group as was I assume) unless that was the aviation company works on Siskin Drive (?). Whatever it was, a service '13' went that way.
For the record, "Ryton Works" was indeed the Rootes Works. Buses on the 13 (transferred to the 27, when that started in 1967) used to terminate at the A423 island with what is now, appropriately, Hillman Way.
I travelled on a 27 to and from there one lunchtime many years ago. As I recall the destination on the blind was simply "Ryton".
The 13 (later 27) had another variant beyond Toll Bar End, serving factories on Siskin Drive, which Coventry Transport called "Works Baginton".
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 23, 2024, 09:02:12 PMFor the record, "Ryton Works" was indeed the Rootes Works. Buses on the 13 (transferred to the 27, when that started in 1967) used to terminate at the A423 island with what is now, appropriately, Hillman Way.
I travelled on a 27 to and from there one lunchtime many years ago. As I recall the destination on the blind was simply "Ryton".
The 13 (later 27) had another variant beyond Toll Bar End, serving factories on Siskin Drive, which Coventry Transport called "Works Baginton".
The PTE some time after the take-over, must have re-organised these services into the: 27 (City - Toll Bar End), 37 (Ryton Works), 47 (Baginton Trading Estate) and possibly a bit later, 57 (Stonebridge Industrial Estate).
My little pocket Fare Table guide (Coventry District) dated 30th Nov 1975, only shows the 27 as City, Pool Meadow - Toll Bar End/Ryton (Chrysler Works)/Works Baginton [as you state]. So it was certainly after that time.
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 23, 2024, 10:34:21 PMThe PTE some time after the take-over, must have re-organised these services into the: 27 (City - Toll Bar End), 37 (Ryton Works), 47 (Baginton Trading Estate) and possibly a bit later, 57 (Stonebridge Industrial Estate).
My little pocket Fare Table guide (Coventry District) dated 30th Nov 1975, only shows the 27 as City, Pool Meadow - Toll Bar End/Ryton (Chrysler Works)/Works Baginton [as you state]. So it was certainly after that time.
You are correct. Time to put the anorak on! The use of numbers 37 and 47 started on 19 March 1978, and the 57 started on 3 June 1979.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 23, 2024, 10:54:02 PMYou are correct. Time to put the anorak on! The use of numbers 37 and 47 started on 19 March 1978, and the 57 started on 3 June 1979.
Interesting - don't think I've come across those specific dates before (I'd better remember this thread!). All those services were swept away in the changes made on 21/4/85 and the Works services simply became '21A' (on off-shoot of the newly created 21 Wood End - Willenhall combination). I can't quite remember if all three works terminus points continued to be served though, I'd say that the Stonebridge Industrial Park (Sibree Rd/Rowley Drive) was discontinued. So the 21A has been a constant for 39 years?
I can recall walking up Siskin Drive for various events in the early 1980s (probably big RAFA Airshows and the Pope visit in 1982) on long hot summer days, and seeing buses and a bus stop up there - it seemed such an unlikely outpost for a bus to visit!
After those changes I can recall a service 26 City, Pool Meadow - Toll Bar End which must have been a direct replacement for the 27. But, which was replaced by tacking Toll Bar End (via London Rd) onto service 1 at deregulation in October 1986.
This area might find itself with a slightly more frequent bus service in the near future.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how did the 27 turn at Toll Bar End? Was it where the Stonebridge island is, or was it further up the road?
The 27 (in the early days) the shorter Toll Bar End journeys simply went around the roundabout and parked up alongside a shelter inbound very close to the roundabout. I guess cars managed to squeeze past (it's hard to imagine that now). And in later years, certainly during the '1' years - it used an outbound lay-by opposite the aforementioned stop and then returned to town using the roundabout.
The 47 (21A) used the first roundabout at the end of Siskin Drive, but in later years made use of Siskin Parkway. The 57 used the junction of Rowley Drive and Sibree Rd (a quiet industrial estate area).
I assume the 37 used the large roundabout close to the main entrance of Peugeot/Talbot (etc).
New timetable for the 13 (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A41013%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) and 13A (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A4113A%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) is now on traveline, and the route taken for the extension isn't what we were expecting...
From Willenhall it follows the 21 route to London Road (Asda) then into Whitley Jaguar and along Scimitar Way and Orchard Way* to Segro Park.
(*Orchard Way is renamed Silver Eagle Way now?). The 13A doesn't extend to Segro.
Quote from: JPC on July 25, 2024, 05:55:02 PMNew timetable for the 13 (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A41013%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) and 13A (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A4113A%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) is now on traveline, and the route taken for the extension isn't what we were expecting...
From Willenhall it follows the 21 route to London Road (Asda) then into Whitley Jaguar and along Scimitar Way and Orchard Way* to Segro Park.
(*Orchard Way is renamed Silver Eagle Way now?). The 13A doesn't extend to Segro.
There seems to be a 00:30 and 02:30am trip if I'm reading that right
Quote from: JPC on July 25, 2024, 05:55:02 PMNew timetable for the 13 (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A41013%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) and 13A (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A4113A%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) is now on traveline, and the route taken for the extension isn't what we were expecting...
From Willenhall it follows the 21 route to London Road (Asda) then into Whitley Jaguar and along Scimitar Way and Orchard Way* to Segro Park.
(*Orchard Way is renamed Silver Eagle Way now?). The 13A doesn't extend to Segro.
I have driven that way to get to Baginton (the Old Mill pub) from the London Rd area, quite straight-forward and you go across that rather large bridge across the A45. It gives the JLR area quite a frequent service seemingly. On London Road itself, the 'inbound 21' side will also be the 'outbound 13 side' and the opposite on the other side of the road - they'll be plenty of buses between Willenhall and that Asda store (if there wasn't enough already).
Slight edit: I see not all journeys go to Segro Park, with quite a few still terminating at Willenhall (and there's quite a gap during the daytime). But the business park will be covered 7 days a week.
Quote from: JPC on July 25, 2024, 05:55:02 PMNew timetable for the 13 (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A41013%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) and 13A (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A4113A%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) is now on traveline, and the route taken for the extension isn't what we were expecting...
From Willenhall it follows the 21 route to London Road (Asda) then into Whitley Jaguar and along Scimitar Way and Orchard Way* to Segro Park.
(*Orchard Way is renamed Silver Eagle Way now?). The 13A doesn't extend to Segro.
When Scimitar Rd was first built behind the Jaguar plant all those years years ago I did not understand why a bus lane was put in on the steep hill. Now I understand why !
Also from the Ernesford Grange area to Asda Whitley the NXC 13 will now compete with the hourly SC 60 service - wonder if the 60 route is going to be reviewed soon?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 25, 2024, 09:00:20 PMWhen Scimitar Rd was first built behind the Jaguar plant all those years years ago I did not understand why a bus lane was put in on the steep hill. Now I understand why !
There is bus stop kerbing in each direction on Scimitar Way close to the Jaguar roundabout which I hope will be commissioned for the 13 service (instead of a merry-go-round of both directions calling to the same existing Jaguar stop). Also more kerbing in both directions just north of the Rowley Road roundabout which would be convenient for the Air Museum, Battery Centre and a short walk to Rowley Drive but we may see reluctance in installing stop posts here with it being outside the TFWM area.
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 25, 2024, 06:37:14 PMI have driven that way to get to Baginton (the Old Mill pub) from the London Rd area, quite straight-forward and you go across that rather large bridge across the A45. It gives the JLR area quite a frequent service seemingly. On London Road itself, the 'inbound 21' side will also be the 'outbound 13 side' and the opposite on the other side of the road - they'll be plenty of buses between Willenhall and that Asda store (if there wasn't enough already).
I expect we will see some passengers interchanging at London Road (Asda) to make their journey between Segro and the City Centre shorter.
Quote from: JPC on July 26, 2024, 05:06:56 PMThere is bus stop kerbing in each direction on Scimitar Way close to the Jaguar roundabout which I hope will be commissioned for the 13 service (instead of a merry-go-round of both directions calling to the same existing Jaguar stop).
I have to say that I am not sure why this new NXC 13 route extension to Baginton has to call at the Jaguar plant? Are there really bus loads of Jaguar people waiting to use this indirect service to the city centre or Baginton? The Jaguar stop is currently only served by the hourly SC60 and rarely have I seen anyone use the stop.
This is a car manufacturer who has a huge amount of car parking space for their workers and who are attracted to using cars via a company leasing scheme.
I want the NXC 13 route to succeed but can someone convince me that by calling at Jaguar is necessary?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 27, 2024, 07:50:43 AMI have to say that I am not sure why this new NXC 13 route extension to Baginton has to call at the Jaguar plant? Are there really bus loads of Jaguar people waiting to use this indirect service to the city centre or Baginton? The Jaguar stop is currently only served by the hourly SC60 and rarely have I seen anyone use the stop.
This is a car manufacturer who has a huge amount of car parking space for their workers and who are attracted to using cars via a company leasing scheme.
I want the NXC 13 route to succeed but can someone convince me that by calling at Jaguar is necessary?
They also now have the x18A serving the jag plant
If someone is paying for it to go to Segro and there's time in the timetable for a bus which is passing the entrance anyway, then why not?
As long as people don't want to go there between 10am and 1pm (randomly) then it should be an improvement for them.
Quote from: ellspurs on July 27, 2024, 12:27:52 PMIf someone is paying for it to go to Segro and there's time in the timetable for a bus which is passing the entrance anyway, then why not?
As long as people don't want to go there between 10am and 1pm (randomly) then it should be an improvement for them.
Is Segro providing all the funding for the extended route?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 27, 2024, 01:43:07 PMIs Segro providing all the funding for the extended route?
That's what has been speculated. The area falls in Warwickshire, so there's no incentive for NX to do it off their own backs.
Quote from: ellspurs on July 27, 2024, 02:05:24 PMThat's what has been speculated. The area falls in Warwickshire, so there's no incentive for NX to do it off their own backs.
I would guess the European real estate company called Segro do not stump up this cost but have no info. If anything, my guess is this will be a government or West Mids Authority funded scheme, similar to the X30 at Ansty Park. Both locations are just outside the Coventry boundary and need to have public transport introduced to make these countryside sites look 'sustainable'.
Question for the Mods please?
There is quite a good discussion going on about development of the 13 route in the 'Coventry Garage' thread.
Can it be lifted and moved to this thread as it would sit better in here?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 27, 2024, 04:03:47 PMQuestion for the Mods please?
There is quite a good discussion going on about development of the 13 route in the 'Coventry Garage' thread.
Can it be lifted and moved to this thread as it would sit better in here?
That's been done :azn:
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 27, 2024, 03:58:22 PMI would guess the European real estate company called Segro do not stump up this cost but have no info. If anything, my guess is this will be a government or West Mids Authority funded scheme, similar to the X30 at Ansty Park. Both locations are just outside the Coventry boundary and need to have public transport introduced to make these countryside sites look 'sustainable'.
The service registration says 'no' to 'supported by subsidies'.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/625837/
My interpretation is this means no financial support from the local authority, however this doesn't stop the developer paying NX directly, as with the X30 service, which also shows no subsidy on the registration.
Quote from: Stu on July 27, 2024, 04:31:58 PMThe service registration says 'no' to 'supported by subsidies'.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/625837/
My interpretation is this means no financial support from the local authority, however this doesn't stop the developer paying NX directly, as with the X30 service, which also shows no subsidy on the registration.
Stu, thanks for lifting and moving the 13 content to here.
Looking at the Segro Coventry web site there are reported to be two large brand new warehouses already built and needing buyers.
https://www.segro.com/countries-repository/united-kingdom/segro-park-coventry
Perhaps the current lack of public transport is seen as a problem and putting off the buyers? I would not be surprised if the government have had to fund the bus service? Perhaps the new chancellor has found a bit of cash left over in the olde Levelling Up funds???
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 27, 2024, 06:19:18 PMLooking at the Segro Coventry web site there are reported to be two large brand new warehouses already built and needing buyers.
https://www.segro.com/countries-repository/united-kingdom/segro-park-coventry (https://www.segro.com/countries-repository/united-kingdom/segro-park-coventry)
Perhaps the current lack of public transport is seen as a problem and putting off the buyers? I would not be surprised if the government have had to fund the bus service? Perhaps the new chancellor has found a bit of cash left over in the olde Levelling Up funds???
Personally I'd prefer it if these big multi-national companies dipped their hands into their own pockets to fund start up bus services such as this, rather than the government or local authority.
I doubt a lack of public transport would put off the kinds of companies who invest in sites like these, and it all depends on what employment opportunities are being created.
Quote from: JPC on July 26, 2024, 05:06:56 PMThere is bus stop kerbing in each direction on Scimitar Way close to the Jaguar roundabout which I hope will be commissioned for the 13 service (instead of a merry-go-round of both directions calling to the same existing Jaguar stop). Also more kerbing in both directions just north of the Rowley Road roundabout which would be convenient for the Air Museum, Battery Centre and a short walk to Rowley Drive but we may see reluctance in installing stop posts here with it being outside the TFWM area.
I expect we will see some passengers interchanging at London Road (Asda) to make their journey between Segro and the City Centre shorter.
On a similar theme. There are, I assume, going to be a number of bus stops in Willenhall - where service 13 stops - but heading to different destinations.
I'm presuming the 13 when heading to the Segro Business Park, will travel along Willenhall Lane, St James' Lane, Robin Hood Road (drop-off/pick-up at the Precinct) and travel up Remembrance Road and back along St James' Lane [that its already covered minutes earlier] then continue further along St James' Lane towards London Road?
Shorter 13 journeys to Willenhall have to loop around Robin Hood Rd as there is nowhere to turnaround. But the longer ones could simply turn right from St James' Lane into Remembrance Road (pause at the Haggard Centre) go along Robin Hood Rd, then turn right into St James' Lane (and the exact reverse when heading inbound). But that would make things confusing from a bus stop point-of-view! Add in the 21, 60 etc - you'll need to have your wits about you in Willenhall.
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 28, 2024, 11:44:22 AMOn a similar theme. There are, I assume, going to be a number of bus stops in Willenhall - where service 13 stops - but heading to different destinations.
I'm presuming the 13 when heading to the Segro Business Park, will travel along Willenhall Lane, St James' Lane, Robin Hood Road (drop-off/pick-up at the Precinct) and travel up Remembrance Road and back along St James' Lane [that its already covered minutes earlier] then continue further along St James' Lane towards London Road?
Shorter 13 journeys to Willenhall have to loop around Robin Hood Rd as there is nowhere to turnaround. But the longer ones could simply turn right from St James' Lane into Remembrance Road (pause at the Haggard Centre) go along Robin Hood Rd, then turn right into St James' Lane (and the exact reverse when heading inbound). But that would make things confusing from a bus stop point-of-view! Add in the 21, 60 etc - you'll need to have your wits about you in Willenhall.
The route map is now shown on BusTimes:
https://bustimes.org/services/13-coventry-willenhall#map
Looking at the timetable from the TfWM website, short journeys to Willenhall will terminate at and start from the St Bernards Walk stop.
The journeys towards Segro will continue from St Bernards Walk back onto St James Lane, omitting the Lorenzo Close stop as well as the primary school (which it will have already served).
Quote from: JPC on July 25, 2024, 05:55:02 PMNew timetable for the 13 (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A41013%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) and 13A (https://nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com/swe-ttb/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?deleteAssignedStops_ttb=1&command=direct&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&type_ttb=any&language=en&sessionID=0&requestID=0&itdLPxx_template=tableResults&coordOutputFormat=WGS84%5Bdd.ddddd%5D&outputFormat=0&std3_commonMacro=ttb&std3_contractorMacro=&line=cen%3A4113A%3AC%3AH%3Ay11%3A2) is now on traveline, and the route taken for the extension isn't what we were expecting...
From Willenhall it follows the 21 route to London Road (Asda) then into Whitley Jaguar and along Scimitar Way and Orchard Way* to Segro Park.
(*Orchard Way is renamed Silver Eagle Way now?). The 13A doesn't extend to Segro.
I have been along some of the 13 route today.
Silver Eagle Way (Orchard Way?) is a new road now open to the public. There is now a bus stop on this road, both sides, at the far end approx. behind the Baginton Oak pub. The stop flags are huge with a symbol of a single decker bus and the large words 'Bus stop' underneath. Doesn't look right at all. TXC have put a notice in the timetable board 'There are presently no services from this bus stop. For information regarding future services from this stop please visit our website..........'
Also to note that these two stops are now showing on Bus times.org.
No stops currently found nearer to the Battery Industrialisation Centre.
Hope this is useful info?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 28, 2024, 02:36:03 PMThe stop flags are huge with a symbol of a single decker bus and the large words 'Bus stop' underneath. Doesn't look right at all.
Yea that sounds like a standard Warwickshire CC bus stop flag. It *is* better than Coleshill/Water Orton, which still has 590a/590c on some of their flags, the "717/757/767/777" services from the early 2000s, and a prominent ad (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5177436,-1.7394138,3a,15.2y,49.86h,95.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSyuv_hCw-ttk995p0upEjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu) for the Central Buses 75 service.
Quote from: JPC on July 26, 2024, 05:06:56 PMThere is bus stop kerbing in each direction on Scimitar Way close to the Jaguar roundabout which I hope will be commissioned for the 13 service (instead of a merry-go-round of both directions calling to the same existing Jaguar stop). Also more kerbing in both directions just north of the Rowley Road roundabout which would be convenient for the Air Museum, Battery Centre and a short walk to Rowley Drive but we may see reluctance in installing stop posts here with it being outside the TFWM area.
I have been along some of the 13 route today.
Had a look at the bus stop kerbing you mention on Scimitar Way near the Jag. plant. I don't think they are compliant on both sides as there is a mix of kerb types over the bus stop section. I reckon it will need upgrading before it can be used?
Also to note the TfWM flag at the current official Jag. bus shelter is now missing. Perhaps a sign that the stop will be moving as suggested?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 28, 2024, 02:46:14 PMI have been along some of the 13 route today.
Had a look at the bus stop kerbing you mention on Scimitar Way near the Jag. plant. I don't think they are compliant on both sides as there is a mix of kerb types over the bus stop section. I reckon it will need upgrading before it can be used?
Also to note the TfWM flag at the current official Jag. bus shelter is now missing. Perhaps a sign that the stop will be moving as suggested?
Kassel kerbs don't need to be put in now by councils
We had Kassel kerbs in brierley hill high st but when they put new pavements and kerbs in they took the Kassel kerbs out and put normal kerbs in
Quote from: Stu on July 28, 2024, 01:18:22 PMThe route map is now shown on BusTimes:
https://bustimes.org/services/13-coventry-willenhall#map
Looking at the timetable from the TfWM website, short journeys to Willenhall will terminate at and start from the St Bernards Walk stop.
The journeys towards Segro will continue from St Bernards Walk back onto St James Lane, omitting the Lorenzo Close stop as well as the primary school (which it will have already served).
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 28, 2024, 02:46:14 PMI have been along some of the 13 route today.
Had a look at the bus stop kerbing you mention on Scimitar Way near the Jag. plant. I don't think they are compliant on both sides as there is a mix of kerb types over the bus stop section. I reckon it will need upgrading before it can be used?
Also to note the TfWM flag at the current official Jag. bus shelter is now missing. Perhaps a sign that the stop will be moving as suggested?
In message #54 there is a link to the route - which appears to show a little diversion off Scimitar Way not far from the A444 area. Which I assume to be the entrance to JLR/current bus stop for the 60 and X18 (named Leaf Lane on Google Maps) suggesting that will be served by the 13. And that does show a 'Silver Eagle Way' rather than an Orchard Way.
Leaf Lane seems to occupy areas either side of the A444 in and outbound carriageway!
Quote from: paulb1973 on July 28, 2024, 04:55:59 PMLeaf Lane seems to occupy areas either side of the A444 in and outbound carriageway!
That was probably the route of the road before they smashed the a444 through it!
Quote from: Stu on July 28, 2024, 01:18:22 PMThe route map is now shown on BusTimes:
https://bustimes.org/services/13-coventry-willenhall#map
Looking at the timetable from the TfWM website, short journeys to Willenhall will terminate at and start from the St Bernards Walk stop.
The journeys towards Segro will continue from St Bernards Walk back onto St James Lane, omitting the Lorenzo Close stop as well as the primary school (which it will have already served).
Yes, thanks for that link, all 13 journeys will make the normal loop around St James' Lane, Robin Hood Rd, Remembrance Rd then. Omitting those two stops on Segro Park services will obviously make things simpler.
I think it was JPC that hinted some City Centre to Segro Park passengers could simply get a 21 to Asda, then 'double back' by catching a 13 across the road towards JLR/Segro Park. If that does happen - then they might as well have just run a shorter '21' to that destination via Cheylesmore and the JLR site.
Bus fares to Sergo Park
From what is shown on BusTimes the new 13 bus stops to Sergo Park could create a ticketing problem I reckon.
Surprisingly the last bus stop within the West Midlands ticketing zone is the Jaguar Plant! There is then a big gap to reach the new stops at Coventry Airport (who the heck will use that stop?) and Sergo Park which are both in Warwickshire. Does this mean that the 'West Midlands 'n' Bus ticket offerings are not valid?
If I am right people travelling regularly to Sergo Park may have to buy an add-on ticket?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 29, 2024, 07:39:21 AMBus fares to Sergo Park
From what is shown on BusTimes the new 13 bus stops to Sergo Park could create a ticketing problem I reckon.
Surprisingly the last bus stop within the West Midlands ticketing zone is the Jaguar Plant! There is then a big gap to reach the new stops at Coventry Airport (who the heck will use that stop?) and Sergo Park which are both in Warwickshire. Does this mean that the 'West Midlands 'n' Bus ticket offerings are not valid?
If I am right people travelling regularly to Sergo Park may have to buy an add-on ticket?
Unless its in the TfWM zone, NBus is not valid. People would need an "Outer Zone" ticket or travelcard to travel to or from Sergo Park or Coventry Airport if they are not within the nBus zone,
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 29, 2024, 10:41:31 AMUnless its in the TfWM zone, NBus is not valid. People would need an "Outer Zone" ticket or travelcard to travel to or from Sergo Park or Coventry Airport if they are not within the nBus zone,
"Outer Zone" ticket - that's what I meant. Thanks
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 29, 2024, 10:41:31 AMUnless its in the TfWM zone, NBus is not valid. People would need an "Outer Zone" ticket or travelcard to travel to or from Sergo Park or Coventry Airport if they are not within the nBus zone,
Some places outside the West Midlands County have always been included in nBus (Wombourne & Swindon for example) so it's not automatically excluded.
Quote from: Stu on July 28, 2024, 01:18:22 PMThe route map is now shown on BusTimes:
https://bustimes.org/services/13-coventry-willenhall#map
It's kind of exciting seeing this large Coventry route extension on the 13.
I would be interested to understand who decides on the new route to use to get to the Segro warehouses and why?
From my thinking this could have been a great opportunity to turn left at the end of St James Lane and go via Toll Bar End, Rowley Rd and Baginton village. Not saying I'm right but keen to learn.
In my plan the places served frequently would have been the Airport Shopping Park (awful service today), Rowley Rd Ind. Est, Aircraft Museum, Battery Industrialisation Centre, Baginton village. Would appeal to lots of passengers, possibly more than going via the Jaguar Plant? Could this also be a quicker journey?
Thoughts, facts and guidance welcome.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 31, 2024, 10:19:06 PMIt's kind of exciting seeing this large Coventry route extension on the 13.
I would be interested to understand who decides on the new route to use to get to the Segro warehouses and why?
From my thinking this could have been a great opportunity to turn left at the end of St James Lane and go via Toll Bar End, Rowley Rd and Baginton village. Not saying I'm right but keen to learn.
In my plan the places served frequently would have been the Airport Shopping Park (awful service today), Rowley Rd Ind. Est, Aircraft Museum, Battery Industrialisation Centre, Baginton village. Would appeal to lots of passengers, possibly more than going via the Jaguar Plant? Could this also be a quicker journey?
Thoughts, facts and guidance welcome.
Funnily enough I was going to post more-or-less the same thing - I had thought they missed a trick avoiding Toll Bar End (where the service has been a bit patchy in recent years) the shops and the Royal Mail office which is further up that long access road. And, as you say, connect that with the new Industrial areas at the outer end and the city-centre at the other end.
The southern end of St James' Lane and the section of London Rd from that road to the Whitley roundabout is already well served.
I suppose the thought - is to give the JLR area a more regular service (but there's still quite a gap in service between 10am and 1pm).
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 01, 2024, 02:19:54 PMI suppose the thought - is to give the JLR area a more regular service (but there's still quite a gap in service between 10am and 1pm).
Wouldn't that fit for shift workers?
Quote from: markcf83 on August 01, 2024, 04:34:16 PMWouldn't that fit for shift workers?
Good point but how many people work shifts at the Jaguar design, development & research centre?
I was thinking of Land Rover.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on October 14, 2022, 06:09:44 PMSince the 13 route split the destination blinds show
Out of town Willenhall
Into town Coventry which looks odd as Willenhall is defo a part of Coventry. How quick can a City Centre blind be typed in?
Only noticed this today. On one 13 bus the blind has been modified to scroll through "
Coventry, City Centre, via Willenhall & Binley". Much better and I guess in prep for the Segro route extension?
Segro Park services apparently start tomorrow Sunday 01 Sept at 0400 from Hales St.
Wonder how busy the buses are going to be for the first few weeks.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on July 29, 2024, 07:39:21 AMBus fares to Sergo Park
From what is shown on BusTimes the new 13 bus stops to Sergo Park could create a ticketing problem I reckon.
Surprisingly the last bus stop within the West Midlands ticketing zone is the Jaguar Plant! There is then a big gap to reach the new stops at Coventry Airport (who the heck will use that stop?) and Sergo Park which are both in Warwickshire. Does this mean that the 'West Midlands 'n' Bus ticket offerings are not valid?
If I am right people travelling regularly to Sergo Park may have to buy an add-on ticket?
Baginton is within the nBus area, so presumably Segro Park is as well.
(https://cloudcdn.wmca.org.uk/wmnassets/apps/ticketing/2.15.99/img/nbus_nnetworkmap.png)
Quote from: Stu on August 31, 2024, 12:03:53 PMBaginton is within the nBus area, so presumably Segro Park is as well.
Yes, it would make sense but the Coventry area map should be updated to make it quite clear.
Whilst at it, shouldn't the the same update detail apply to the Ansty Park X30 terminus in Warwickshire?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on August 31, 2024, 11:17:26 AMSegro Park services apparently start tomorrow Sunday 01 Sept at 0400 from Hales St.
Wonder how busy the buses are going to be for the first few weeks.
As you have nothing better to do why don't you go and watch them or ride on them
Quote from: karl724223 on August 31, 2024, 03:50:51 PMAs you have nothing better to do why don't you go and watch them or ride on them
Oooh that hurt! Maybe I should but 0400 is too early for me.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on August 31, 2024, 07:43:43 PMOooh that hurt! Maybe I should but 0400 is too early for me.
0030 is even earlier and is the proper first journey to operate towards Segro Baginton today, courtesy of vehicle E054.
So that makes the Bustimes timetable correct but the others (NX, TFWM & Traveline) are formatted to 'start' the day at around 3am for whatever reason.
Quote0030 is even earlier and is the proper first journey to operate towards Segro Baginton today, courtesy of vehicle E054.
So that makes the Bustimes timetable correct but the others (NX, TFWM & Traveline) are formatted to 'start' the day at around 3am for whatever reason.
Google maps claims that SEGRO extension doesn't even exist!
After a few weeks running experience I wonder if there will be any point to point timing adjustments necessary on the 13?
On some of my travels in the peak there does seem to be some late running. Not sure if this is due to the extended route or just general traffic levels in Coventry.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on September 19, 2024, 01:34:40 PMAfter a few weeks running experience I wonder if there will be any point to point timing adjustments necessary on the 13?
On some of my travels in the peak there does seem to be some late running. Not sure if this is due to the extended route or just general traffic levels in Coventry.
A short notice variation (https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/879) has gone in for a Change to Mon-Sat Timetables to commence 4th November. Hopefully this should improve the service.
When flicking through the tracking history maps you'll soon see a couple of cancelled (adjusted) Segro trips virtually every weekday. :rolleyes:
The 0815 departing from SEGRO Park E073 was only carrying fresh air past the airport runway this morning. IMO what a waste of taxpayers money - discuss?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on November 03, 2024, 12:55:22 PMThe 0815 departing from SEGRO Park E073 was only carrying fresh air past the airport runway this morning. IMO what a waste of taxpayers money - discuss?
How is it "a waste of taxpayers money" if the service is being funded by SEGRO? :huh:
Quote from: Sandy Lane on November 03, 2024, 12:55:22 PMThe 0815 departing from SEGRO Park E073 was only carrying fresh air past the airport runway this morning. IMO what a waste of taxpayers money - discuss?
So 2 things. 1 SEGRO are paying us to run the 13 to the park and the 2nd thing is not everything is built up there yet. We have some big loadings when the DHL shift changes start and finish and a couple to JLR. Once everything is built expect the empty loadings to disappear
You could argue that there is a 24-hour service on the route, as it goes two-hourly between 11pm and 5am. Still don't get the random omission of buses to SEGRO between 10am and 1pm though. They updated the timetable for next week and that gap is still there.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 03, 2024, 04:54:26 PMYou could argue that there is a 24-hour service on the route, as it goes two-hourly between 11pm and 5am. Still don't get the random omission of buses to SEGRO between 10am and 1pm though. They updated the timetable for next week and that gap is still there.
Maybe there's no requirement if there are no shift-changes during that time?
EDIT: or perhaps it's a data error and it does continue to operate hourly during the day?
Quote from: Stu on November 03, 2024, 01:43:50 PMHow is it "a waste of taxpayers money" if the service is being funded by SEGRO? :huh:
and that is exactly my point. IMO there is no way a large property developer like SEGRO will ever want to fund a bus service themselves. They are in business to make massive amounts of money from building new warehouse estates which they do very well.
Under the previous government regime I reckon the taxpayers full funding of this bus service extension was there and it is cleverly hidden within the massive state grant the property developer banked many moons ago direct from HM government in London. So taxpayers money is involved but kept well out of reach from the local authority. No doubt SEGRO was happy to sit on this funding for a while as well.
I guess the situation with buses running around with lots of empty seats will eventually improve and no doubt the taxpayers contribution will tail off at that point?
Quoteand that is exactly my point. IMO there is no way a large property developer like SEGRO will ever want to fund a bus service themselves. They are in business to make massive amounts of money from building new warehouse estates which they do very well.
Under the previous government regime I reckon the taxpayers full funding of this bus service extension was there and it is cleverly hidden within the massive state grant the property developer banked many moons ago direct from HM government in London. So taxpayers money is involved but kept well out of reach from the local authority. No doubt SEGRO was happy to sit on this funding for a while as well.
I guess the situation with buses running around with lots of empty seats will eventually improve and no doubt the taxpayers contribution will tail off at that point?
Unless its Section 106 funded like I believe what the Peddimore services (64/X64/68) are.