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WMPTE derived all of their schedules, quite naturally, from the constituent Corporations and the Midland Red services taken over in 1973. Generally, the latter in the Black Country were timed tighter than all of the Corporations with the exception of Walsall, with which they were on par. 

Accelerations in the eighties consisted of the existing schedules with reduced layover times. At one time, this completely wrecked the highly profitable and reliable 245/246 service (Stourbridge-Dudley-Wednesbury, known since tramway days as the D'n'S), and it had to be hastily re-worked. I think hastily in those days was about three months. At one point, the Stourbridge- Birmingham 130 was combined with the Quinton-Birmingham 9, which was to a much slower timing. The Quinton drivers were most displeased when they found out they would have to run to the 130 timings! Years later, West Midlands finally achieved its ambition and closed the last ex BMMO garage (Hartshill). Drivers who found themselves on Corporation work in Wolverhampton and Quinton were heard to say it's like a holiday!

I have not managed to keep up with the many changes in the area since I moved away in 2001, but recent visits to the Black Country seem to show a necessary overall easing (rightly so) in the interests of reliability.

Fleetline.

No delays in moving off? - Yes.

Pedal to the metal? - Keep it there for more than 15 seconds and air would get into the hydraulics!

Driven not aimed? - The steering was either very heavy or drifted all over the road. The wheel had to be repeatedly "flicked" to one side or the other to keep them in line.

Not so much traffic? - In certain parts of the Black Country, there was just as much traffic due to different road layouts and shopping habits. Brierley Hill, Quarry Bank, Cradley Heath, Old Hill and Dudley were constantly choked with traffic and shoppers (no Merry Hill,  Russells Hall Hospital, no by passes at Dudley, Cradley Heath, Old Hill or Brierley Hill). The Midland Red based schedules did not help.

Driver abuse? - This is an old turkey that should have been laid to rest years ago. If a driver changes down at too-high revs, it is the engine, not the gearbox that gets wrecked. If a driver flicks gears upwards without pausing, he is only doing what all automatic gearboxes did then and do now (stop and think about it before having a knee-jerk reaction). No automatic control system cured the Daimatic or SCG gearbox life problem. The gearbox, derived from a pre-war design, was simply not developed enough to handle the work. Don't forget, some Midland Red S17s (an 11 metre 6.5ton 52 seat singledecker with SCG gearboxes) subjected to the same "driver abuse" completed their service lives without ever having their gearboxes changed!

Magnificent machine? - No. With constant steering problems, poor suspension, short life brakes (handbrakes needed constant adjustment, rear lining life of 8 -10 weeks, not a quick renewal job), gearbox life 80,000 miles, later improved by a WMPTE modification, they were not strong enough or reliable enough. The Metrobus was far more reliable.
Overall, they were adequate, but should have been developed into a much tougher vehicle by 1968, by which time their weaknesses were well known.

There is a tendency to look at old buses through rose-tinted spectacles. I will mourn the passing of the Optare Spectra and Volvo B7TL President. I did not miss the Fleetline or Metrobus.

However, every bus has its good points. The Fleetlines were fantastic in the snow!!

Think about any situation where reversing is required, e.g. garage or yard, bus stations, on-road incidents (see recent Northfield entry in accidents/incidents thread, same could apply anywhere there is 21st century traffic in 1930s roads). These vehicles work in Europe, where towns and cities have wider roads and open spaces. British towns and cities tend to be tightly packed, retaining pre-war road layouts. Like a lot of things in passenger transport (bus and rail), a "good-on-paper" idea was introduced without examining the true practical situations. If I am feeling kind, I will call it naivety;  if not, pig-headedness.

Personally, I found them to be the most horrible buses I had ever travelled on. In London, the standard RM Routemaster, was half the length of a bendy, or to put it another way, 128 seats in the same roadspace!

Re. 4044.

Recently, I made a rare visit back to the West Midlands to check out, amongst other vehicles, E400 MMCs on the 9. The impression was good; smart inside, great new livery, "tight" bodywork, no rattles or squeaks, obviously lots of sound-deadening, but, growing up with BMMO D9 and S17, I thought, isn't the suspension rather poor? A lot of sharp bumps and jiggles were getting through, and my neck was hurting. Am I just getting old?

Making my way home next day, I boarded 4044 at West Bromwich for Sutton Coldfield, and got my answer. This superb vehicle ironed out everything possible, and my age has nothing to do with anything. I had one of those silly "bus enthusiast" smiles on my face for the whole journey. The flashy new livery, branding, wifi, and publicity photos are really just a smokescreen.  What is the use of all this if the suspension is hard and you alight aching and frowning?

In another part of the country, I have heard older members of the public saying, about the E200, why have disabled facilities on a bus when they are too rough to travel on?  I understand this is being addressed on the E200 MMC. I sincerely hope similar development will soon occur on the E400 MMC.

   

I was asked to start a separate thread giving my top ten reasons why I thought Derby bus station was so bad. I don't like to be negative on a forum, as there is often a good reason for something not being or working as it should. Occasionally, no good reason can be found. Thus, the following is my personal feelings about the current Derby bus station.

1)  A number of services approach along Morledge. This was remodelled in parallel to the Riverlights development by River Derwent of which the bus station is a part. It was originally rumoured that this road was to be buses taxis and delivery vehicles only. It was not to be, and this road, already subject to congestion, was nevertheless reduced to one lane each way, making the congestion even worse.

2)  The bus bays are too tightly packed, making driver observation very difficult, exacerbated by the modern trend for vinyls on windows or no windows at all (Solo).

3)   The layout of the station is herringbone pattern, the buses driving onto the stands forwards and reversing off. Though far from ideal, this pattern works well for low frequency services and a small station, say, six stands, set approximately 45 degrees to the passenger area. This makes it easier for reversing drivers to see approaching vehicles, and for approaching drivers to see reversing vehicles soonest. The station at Nottingham Victoria is a reasonable example.
The Derby station has 24 conventional bus stands set at 75 degrees or more, with many high frequency services. It is not unknown for five buses on adjacent stands to attempt to depart at the same time.

4)  In addition to the 24 bus stands, there are five coach stands (25-29) at the far end,  two of which are for National Express. The small platforms to these stands are outside the station building, with simple shelters, which equates to no protection at all.

5)  The far end of the building turns slightly and narrows considerably. This area often becomes crowded with waiting passengers, causing congestion of movement. This is made worse in bad weather, when National Express passengers with their luggage, seek shelter.

6)  There is a strict protocol which drivers must observe when using the station. Drivers reversing off stands have priority, and must reverse straight, and not turn the wheel to the left. This is not possible on stands 24-29 with a 12 meter bus without resorting to a double reverse. Many coaches using stands 25-29 are longer than 12 meters.

7)  The station is in one nearly straight line. Stands at the far end are over 100 meters from the bus station entrance. Coach stands are the furthest and taxis cannot get any nearer than the opposite end of the building.

8)  The protocol says that passengers can travel into the bus station, but there are no setting down stops. Passengers must be set down either on the services allocated stand, or on coach bays 27-29. To obey this protocol, approaching buses must give way to vehicles reversing off stands (note last part of point 3). To take four minutes from entering the bus station to finally getting the bus doors open is a frequent occurrence. I have known it take SIX minutes. You have to be there to appreciate the frustration of alighting passengers, as they see their connection depart.

9)  It is a 90 degree turn off Morlege in both directions into the station. This point is also where buses loop round into the station from the other entrance, and where buses from the first of the stands reverse off. When approaching from the north west, drivers have to have constant 220 degree vision to observe everything. This error was seen before the station even opened, as stand 1 has never been used for passenger services. For safety, this should have been extended to bays 1-3, but that may have been seen as an admission of bad design, and would have put additional strain on the other stands.

10) The dynamics were obviously worked out with little or no allowance made for delays, breakdowns, emergencies etc. In theory, when it opened, it was operating well within capacity. As we all know, when it comes to buses, theory is not enough. When observing the congestion, slow movements, and even gridlocks, it was obvious from the start that it was already beyond its sensible practical limit.

11) The exits are on two busy roads protected by traffic lights, and by necessity, waiting time is long. Only two vehicles at a time can get onto Morlege, and, if you are lucky, three onto St. Alkmund's Way.

12) The design as a whole results in an astonishingly high number of conflicting bus movements every time a bus enters the station. The stress on the drivers must be enormous.

13)  I do not know how many collisions there have been, or if such information is available, but it must be one of, if not the highest for any bus station. I have witnessed, or been in the bus station, for seven of them.

14)  If you want to get to the far stands without walking through the bus station, you can access the top entrance by walking behind the building. To this day, no retailers have taken units on this side, exterior plywood being the order of the day.It's an eyesore.


Well, there are other things, but that's more than ten, so it's time to stop. I have never stood in the bus station to monitor events, observing all of the above while simply passing through. One almost feels as though it was designed to make drivers have a collision. If I ever buy a video camera, I might one day just go on top of an adjacent building to film all the conflicting movements, jams and near-misses that are an everyday occurrence in Derby bus station.

Yes, the lack of a raised footpath at Merry Hill bus station was an error, but it drops you by the shops, it is compact, and although it can gets jammed up occasionally, there are no conflicting bus movements.  My prize for worst bus station absolutely definitely must go to the current Derby bus station, which, for a modern station, has so many faults. It is an embarrassment!  (Can I feel a new thread coming on?)

Recent trips on Arriva 126/7 Leicester to Loughborough have reminded me what excellent suspension these DAFs have. The rattles and strange transmission/axle noises are all forgiven!

If you can't do without wifi/social media on what is more than likely a short journey, you should have the equipment to provide it for yourself. You should not need to charge up your device on a bus. If it's that important, make sure it's charged before you leave home. Power sockets, 5 volt or 230 volt, have no place on a bus (has no-one ever heard of terrorists?). If you want entertainment on a bus, look out the of window at the world and life around you. While the manufacturing side is having to bend over backwards to cut vehicle emissions, fuel consumption and weight, having to provide these facilities (free of course) adds to all three, as well as the added complication and expense during manufacture. How much admin time will be wasted in future due to complaints that the "0804hrs. 558 from Dudton to Wolverhampley had no wifi and I couldn't have a shave because the socket didn't work"?

If these facilities were removed, just how many passengers would be lost?

@Matt. I never thought I would see the day when red buses once again operated the 246.  :)

Here's a reminder of one in service.......(they were usually cleaner inside than out)....... and a recreation.......

When the MCW Metrorider was brand new, it was revolutionary, being a purpose-designed integral minibus. Early WMT examples had 5-speed ZF manual gears with a reversed gate, i.e., 5th speed was away from the driver, and forward. The clutch had a "ceramic" plate, which resulted in a very severe drive uptake. Ride comfort was good due to soft springs. Downside was that they were always noisy. Initially extremely fast in both acceleration and top speed, they were completely strangled when retrofitted with Allison automatic transmission, a fete which also befell Varios 251-260 purchased for Travel Merry Hill. Later WMT Metroriders were automatic from new.
A few MCW Metroriders saw service with Travel Merry Hill, but by then they were awful, very noisy, filthy and far less reliable than the Sherpas they partially displaced. More than one Merry Hill Minis driver secretly wanted the Sherpas back!
Some, if not all (I can't now remember) of the KDZ Darts also served at Merry Hill. These were superb buses, but, like the MCWs, woefully neglected.

In the early years of Metrobus operation, Hartshill drivers would take Fleetlines (14' 2") and Metrobuses (14' 6") under the railway bridge on Cradley Rd., junction Chester Rd. and Station St., Cradley Heath, to take up an afternoon Works Special. The bridge is marked 14' 3", but was well known to be higher. Care was exercised to ensure the soft suspension of the Metrobus did not bounce. Though no problem was ever encountered, the practice was banned, I believe, after a number of bridge incidents at other locations.

The buses are named after NX Pensnett staff members children, it will therefore be spelt however the parents have chosen to spell their children's names

:-[  Didn't know that........ooops!........sorry!   :-[

You get one on the X12 most days and the other normally on the 21. Its abit strange having an E200 with leather seats and laminate flooring but there are worse buses out there and theyre a nice pair. Just need more umph for the A38.

Many thanks for your reply.

6116 Neve.

Pity they have gone for the phonetic spelling. Niamh is far more evocative.

(With apologies to all named Neve - it's just my opinion!).

Now that the ADL E20Ds 1 and 2 have been here for some time, does anyone know if they tend to stick to a particular route?

Also, how are they performing as regards reliability, driver acceptance and fuel consumption?