2014 Fare Structure

[4Q]

Does anybody have any thoughts on the 2014 fare structure?

Personally I feel that the West Midlands will have a flat-fare for single journeys, say £2, like the Coventry services. My reasoning behind this is twofold;

Firstly, it would cut-out overriding, which is a plague from the scum of the nation, wanting something without paying for it.

Secondly, and probably more importantly looking forward, will be the use of the Swift product for single journey use. Now it is physically possible to have an option for the driver when a smart card is produced for different fares, but surely it would just make sense to have a flat-fare "bang, two pounds, thanks very much" type of approach.

Day tickets will probably rise by the general 10p-20p, with weekly, bi-weekly and monthly passes following suit.

I'm sure that there will be an official announcement relatively soon, just wondered if anyone had any other ideas on what may come next year.

[Liverpool Street]

I hope they do scrap the following:

£1.70 'Short Hop' - As mentioned above ref overriding and also, any services from the city shouldn't be able to issue £1.70 from the first stage as the 'City Hop £1' goes the same distance usually

Daysaver Scratch Cards - Dreadful Idea and one which Tony has mentioned previously regarding giving it to the people who will abuse it most.

Fingers crossed once the Swift is known about the ordinary DaySavers will be eliminated; but it is only guess work.

I hope the Swift card wouldn't open the floodgates for even more fraud!!

I dare say the fares will be as follows for 2014 season

£2 - Adult WM Max
£1 - Child WM Max

£1.80 - Adult Short Hop
0.90p - Child Short Hop

£4.00 - Adult Day saver
£2.80 - Child Day saver

This is based on common trends and I can't really see the £2 fare going up next year. Could it be £2.10? Doubt it.

[Stuharris 6360]

I hope they do scrap the following:

£1.70 'Short Hop' - As mentioned above ref overriding and also, any services from the city shouldn't be able to issue £1.70 from the first stage as the 'City Hop £1' goes the same distance usually

Daysaver Scratch Cards - Dreadful Idea and one which Tony has mentioned previously regarding giving it to the people who will abuse it most.

Fingers crossed once the Swift is known about the ordinary DaySavers will be eliminated; but it is only guess work.

I hope the Swift card wouldn't open the floodgates for even more fraud!!

I dare say the fares will be as follows for 2014 season

£2 - Adult WM Max
£1 - Child WM Max

£1.80 - Adult Short Hop
0.90p - Child Short Hop

£4.00 - Adult Day saver
£2.80 - Child Day saver

This is based on common trends and I can't really see the £2 fare going up next year. Could it be £2.10? Doubt it.

The City Hop fare of £1 is totally unfair, to me it should be either extended around the whole network for travel in 1 fare stage, or the city hop should be the same price of a short hop journey.

[Isle of Stroma]

I can't really see the £2 fare going up next year.

I think i'll fall over with shock if it doesn't!

[the trainbasher]

I would do:

Adults single £2
Child's single £1.50

Daysaver I would scrap in favour of smartcards with a £4 daily cap with weeklies going smart for a freeze or paper ones getting a 10% increase in price. That would also remove the need for scratchcards.

[Kevin]

They will inevitably keep one price the same as it is now (presumably the £2 single fare) and make a song and dance about some fares remaining the same, and that there will be "no other price increase until 2015" (omg that sounds amazing how can they keep suchn low fares for a whole year?)

...and of course everything else in life keeps getting more and more expensive while people's wages stay pretty much where they are

[Liverpool Street]

They will inevitably keep one price the same as it is now (presumably the £2 single fare) and make a song and dance about some fares remaining the same, and that there will be "no other price increase until 2015" (omg that sounds amazing how can they keep suchn low fares for a whole year?)

...and of course everything else in life keeps getting more and more expensive while people's wages stay pretty much where they are

Hence my post. What will they do with the £2 fare? £2.15? In the hope people will just put in £2.50 so they get grey profit?

[Tony]

They will inevitably keep one price the same as it is now (presumably the £2 single fare) and make a song and dance about some fares remaining the same, and that there will be "no other price increase until 2015" (omg that sounds amazing how can they keep suchn low fares for a whole year?)

...and of course everything else in life keeps getting more and more expensive while people's wages stay pretty much where they are

Hence my post. What will they do with the £2 fare? £2.15? In the hope people will just put in £2.50 so they get grey profit?

It depends on whether they want people on PAYG swift instead of cash. If they do then you use the trick London did which is increase cash fares bu offer the option of no increase if you go onto swift

[Stuharris 6360]

Surely it would be better to bring back the old, further you travel, the more you pay policy.

[Tony]

Surely it would be better to bring back the old, further you travel, the more you pay policy.

no, no, no. Nightmare to enforce, gives more ways to avoid payment of the full fare, and causes arguments when one driver cannot read fare charts properly and charges one fare and another charges the correct

[Stu]

The single journey flat fare does make sense, they do it down in London for example. And yes, it removes the abuse from those who pay a short hop fare and then travel the whole length of the route.

And it keeps the whole fare structure simple. And yes, the short hop £1.70 fare could be scrapped, and the £2 single retained as the 'big news, fares frozen' PR coup.

The big problem with the short-hop fare to me has always been the fact it is not obviously clear how far this gets you, without actually asking the driver (it is of course printed on the ticket, but this could be incorrect if the driver hasn't updated the Wayfarer to show which fare stage he/she's currently at before issuing the ticket). And it ends the arguments along the lines of 'another driver told me it was only £1.70 to Oldbury' when another driver insists the fare is £2.

While I like the idea of SWIFT being able to eliminate some fraud, its is still theoretically open to abuse. What happens if someone touches an 'empty' (or even fake) SWIFT card on the reader and then walks off down the bus?

[Stuharris 6360]

The single journey flat fare does make sense, they do it down in London for example. And yes, it removes the abuse from those who pay a short hop fare and then travel the whole length of the route.

And it keeps the whole fare structure simple. And yes, the short hop £1.70 fare could be scrapped, and the £2 single retained as the 'big news, fares frozen' PR coup.

The big problem with the short-hop fare to me has always been the fact it is not obviously clear how far this gets you, without actually asking the driver (it is of course printed on the ticket, but this could be incorrect if the driver hasn't updated the Wayfarer to show which fare stage he/she's currently at before issuing the ticket). And it ends the arguments along the lines of 'another driver told me it was only £1.70 to Oldbury' when another driver insists the fare is £2.

While I like the idea of SWIFT being able to eliminate some fraud, its is still theoretically open to abuse. What happens if someone touches an 'empty' (or even fake) SWIFT card on the reader and then walks off down the bus?

That is a good point, that quite often happens in London and also quite often the drivers seem to let it go. Will the revenue inspectors be getting a reader to check Swift cards have been "touched in" and if any travelcards on it are valid?

[Liverpool Street]

I expect theres no manual way to input these Swifts? (I'm thinking like a shop barcode entered manually sort of thing)

[Kevin]

Well I have to say sometimes I have my doubts when people use a smart card and I see the screen flashing red, they just walk on anyway... There is no real way to stop people abusing the fares system short of police on every bus or mass culling of the scum

[Tony]

I expect theres no manual way to input these Swifts? (I'm thinking like a shop barcode entered manually sort of thing)

Correct, there is no way to enter them manually. Yes it is open to the 'Just Walk on brigade' but so is every system. The other thing Swift stops is people putting £3 in 5p in the vault and insisting there is £3.90 there for a daysaver. As long as there is credit on the card the correct amount is taken.

Yes revenue are getting card readers. In London about the only offense Revenue Inspectors issue 'Standard Fares' for is not scanning your Oyster on the way onto the bus if it does have credit on (And then only for the first time caught). All other fiddles like scanning an empty card or any deliberate fraudulent use are immediately reported for private prosecution by TfL