Diamonds problem

[richie]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

[fleetline6477]

I don't see lack of route branding being any sort of issue. I mean Petes only ever attempted route branding once ( the 451 ) & that was a half hearted crap effort.

Diamond also branded S 404/405 JUA for route 77 Birmingham Centrebus and 2 Solos and Darts were branded for Coventry PRN - all of which were provided by contracted body i.e. Birmingham City Council and Coventry.  I agree the 451 branding on those Carlyle Darts was not the best.

[Stuharris 6360]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

Exactly my point, Hansons do better because they started the route and people became familiar with their buses and drivers. Then they see Diamond trying to push in and take over the route when it becomes a success, in my experience people don't take kindly to that.

I know i have said this before, but i still feel one operator to one service would be better than the present situation.

[Ash]

Shame T443EBD is for sale one of the most powerful darts I have been on especially for it's age.

[PM]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

Exactly my point, Hansons do better because they started the route and people became familiar with their buses and drivers. Then they see Diamond trying to push in and take over the route when it becomes a success, in my experience people don't take kindly to that.

I know i have said this before, but i still feel one operator to one service would be better than the present situation.

Nope competition is essential. As can be seen in the case of Arriva Cannock, where there is little competition it leads to high fares and poor buses as indeed NX has done on the Bristol Road-bad old tridents that companies like Oxford bus would have withdrawn years ago. Competition is absolutely vital-NXWM put new buses on the 404 BECAUSE of diamond and the cheaper fares are down to competition.

[PM]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

The analogy is totally incorrect. Tesco and Asda were never privatised from public ownership and one of them allowed to keep control of say a clubcard or a travelcard. WMT retained controlled of what should have been put in place for all operators, as in Merseyside, Manchester, West Yorkshire or South Yorkshire-the ex PTE travelcards of which in fairness the WM one was a pioneer and probably the most successful were not passed on directly to the arms length company. Instead, they were retained as multi-operator tickets.

[notepanel]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

The analogy is totally incorrect. Tesco and Asda were never privatised from public ownership and one of them allowed to keep control of say a clubcard or a travelcard. WMT retained controlled of what should have been put in place for all operators, as in Merseyside, Manchester, West Yorkshire or South Yorkshire-the ex PTE travelcards of which in fairness the WM one was a pioneer and probably the most successful were not passed on directly to the arms length company. Instead, they were retained as multi-operator tickets.

I don't personally understand all this about the travel card. WMT was set up with the majority of routes in the West Midlands - if it wasn't given the travelcard, it would have been in a position to set up its own similar or equal card.

It is not NXWM or any other operators fault if people don't understand about deregulation and privatisation. I have previously had several people come up to me and complain about the 'midland red' driver or referring to smaller companies as private companies. This is a lack of education and to me something that should have been explained 20-odd years ago to prevent the issues we are facing today.

[Steveminor]

Yes other operators can have introduced their own passes but when one operator runs more buses on more routes than all the others put together whose pass would you choose. That's where the unfairness comes in, remember TWM were all but given this monopoly.
If you think that it isnt unfair then just think about this. How long would NXWM last without the Teavelcard to protect them? I can guess this much, It wouldnt take long before 1 or more of the other Groups started knocking on the door.

[Tony]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

Exactly my point, Hansons do better because they started the route and people became familiar with their buses and drivers. Then they see Diamond trying to push in and take over the route when it becomes a success, in my experience people don't take kindly to that.

I know i have said this before, but i still feel one operator to one service would be better than the present situation.

Nope competition is essential. As can be seen in the case of Arriva Cannock, where there is little competition it leads to high fares and poor buses as indeed NX has done on the Bristol Road-bad old tridents that companies like Oxford bus would have withdrawn years ago. Competition is absolutely vital-NXWM put new buses on the 404 BECAUSE of diamond and the cheaper fares are down to competition.

So Tridents like those on the Bristol Road would have been withdrawn years ago?
Complete crap. Oxford are still using T reg tridents, older than anything on the Bristol Road

[Ash]

Diamond do well on the 4 and 301 because they match the frequency of NXWM how many other operators would match NXWM every 6 minute frequency on the 4 and now they run buses to Merry Hill and Hayley Green from Walsall it seems to have increase passenger numbers on the West Bromwich to Hayley Green/Merry Hill part of the service. If diamond matched the frequency NXWM offered on the 16/50 it would be a gamble but I believe passenger numbers would increase on average per bus. Offering a frequency of every 15 minutes on the 50 against NXWM is like half heatedly challenging NXWM rather than going at full force and having a go. 

[Tony]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

And Stagecoach don't have their own travelcards in Manchester and Sheffield. Of course they do, and they are cheaper than the multi op one exactly the same as in the West Midlands. Yes Stagecoach had to launch it from sctratch, but you don't think the same would have happened in the West Midlands if only a multi=op one would have been passed on at Deregulation.

Even Arriva at Cannock have their own weekly/four weekly passes available in private shops the same as NX travelcard
The analogy is totally incorrect. Tesco and Asda were never privatised from public ownership and one of them allowed to keep control of say a clubcard or a travelcard. WMT retained controlled of what should have been put in place for all operators, as in Merseyside, Manchester, West Yorkshire or South Yorkshire-the ex PTE travelcards of which in fairness the WM one was a pioneer and probably the most successful were not passed on directly to the arms length company. Instead, they were retained as multi-operator tickets.

[vinh1000]

If you are in like Tile Cross for example the timetable shows diamond and nxwm both leaving the same time on the hour towards Birmingham (though the diamond sits there for a bit whilst nxwm departs)

[Ash]

I think diamond have made a bit of a mistake on their sunday service on the 4M which might have had some impact from centro but diamond's 4M service runs about 7/10 minutes behind NXWM 4M service and seems to struggle after West Bromwich when it continues to Merry Hill and I would have thought Diamond would have put 2 other service 4 buses on a Sunday between Walsall and West Bromwich to keep the 15 minutes frequency like it was before the review and not the every 30 minutes it is now but the only positive thing is that it is mostly operated by the royale centro's.

[winston]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

I think Rotala are now in a similar boat to First Group, Rotala have tried to expand too quickly with numerous acquisitions Ludlows, NBB, Zaks, BMT, Go West Midlands, SBGC, Preston Bus etc none of which were generating great profits, some at least namely Preston Bus were loss making. Each time Rotala have either issued loads more shares, issued loan notes or more recently taken on further bank debt, With all the acquisitions of independents in the West Midlands they should have used those to consolidate their position, create a decent network & ultimately improve profitability. Rotala are now saddled with massive debts for the size of the group, make low profit margins (3.5%) by year on year by big group standards around 10% shouldn't be unreasonable, some may be contributed to the current economic situation / credit crunch, the rest to management decisions/failings. Rotala clearly don't have sufficient finances to invest in the fleet in any quantity, Tividale currently resembles a scrap yard. Diamond has been in constant decline ever since they tried to take on First in Worcester; initially the signs were quite promising. Black Diamond has gone down the pan ever since the MCV's were withdrawn, the PR man (responsible for the brandings), Stephen Bryce (operations manager) & Scott Dunn (MD) all left very close to one another, why did they all leave in such a short space of time?

Scott Dunn seems to be doing well with his Yourbus venture; it seems to be going from strength to strength

[Ash]

I would think black diamond has got to be the biggest profit maker out of all the three diamond brands every commercial service out of Tividale is well used I know it doesn't mean that necessarily generates a high profit for that particular service but seems positive. The signature brand seems strong as well having used the 82 a few times it's always well used using top quality citaro's. Rotala does seem to be investing but it's all for Preston and Wessex and non for diamond.