Diamonds problem

[sonic84]

Ah yes, thats the other one I was trying to think of... the 404H.  That one really is a strange one for sure, especially now they are competing on the route with NXB.

[Westy]

The old 310 service between Walsall & Merry Hell was another one they should have stuck at really, IMHO.

[winston]

The old 310 service between Walsall & Merry Hell was another one they should have stuck at really, IMHO.

I always thought Diamond did fairly well on the following services 51, 74, 120, 217, 221, 310 etc their 9 did well at peak times

[sonic84]

Absolutely.  The 310 seemed to be a pretty established route, and then they introduced the 300 if i remember correctly which combined to run every 15 minutes between Merry Hill and Walsall.

When they came off the 247/248 I believe they extended both the 300 and the 310 to stourbridge as per the old 247 route and then withdrew of the 300/310 completely.

Didn't the 300 make a come back a few years ago running Merry Hill to Ikea for a short amount of time?


I'm sure diamond did well on the 120. 

They altered the 217 didn't they running it via Lion Farm, and direct between Cradley Heath & Old Hill before it was withdrawn.

I always throught it was a genious move when they interworked the 221 with the 443, where you could buy tickets for both services between Brandhall and Birmingham.

The 9 was very well used during peak times too.

[Ash]

Absolutely.  The 310 seemed to be a pretty established route, and then they introduced the 300 if i remember correctly which combined to run every 15 minutes between Merry Hill and Walsall.

When they came off the 247/248 I believe they extended both the 300 and the 310 to stourbridge as per the old 247 route and then withdrew of the 300/310 completely.

Didn't the 300 make a come back a few years ago running Merry Hill to Ikea for a short amount of time?


I'm sure diamond did well on the 120. 

They altered the 217 didn't they running it via Lion Farm, and direct between Cradley Heath & Old Hill before it was withdrawn.

I always throught it was a genious move when they interworked the 221 with the 443, where you could buy tickets for both services between Brandhall and Birmingham.

The 9 was very well used during peak times too.

When you talk about the 9/300/310 I think the thing these services have similar to one another is the length of them most service's diamond operate are short apart from the 4H/4M and 56 so they have a quick turn around on passengers so maybe a 9 might depart with 20 passengers and pick up only 10 more in comparison diamond could operate another bus on the 301 and could do several return trips in that time and pick up a lot more passengers. So thinking like this that's why probably they tried out shorter services like the 74E and 87E to have quicker turn around of passengers. The 900 is quite a popular service but never really gets competition on it similar to 126 and that could be due to the length just my theory.

[sonic84]

I guess the problem with the popular services is that your going to be competing with travel card if you tried to start up on say the 900 now.

It just seems like Diamond seemed to have fizzled out a little in the West Midlands, and the gap between them and NXB is getting much bigger.

The other problem with Diamond in the West Midlands is that the area they run services is very large in comparison to the number of routes they run, so the Diamond day ticket / weekly pass offers little value compared to the travel card.

In comparison, the Ludlows operation ran very few routes, prob 10 at max, but they were all concentrated on the Halesowen area meaning that Ludlows had a strong presence there making any day or weekly ticket of value to the people who lived there.

Whilst this isn't a problem for Diamond now in Redditch as they will be become the dominant operator, perhaps they wouldn't benefit from focusing there efforts on one part of the Birmingham / Black Country and building up a network of commercial services as opposed to picking up mainly tendered work.

[winston]

It just seems like Diamond seemed to have fizzled out a little in the West Midlands, and the gap between them and NXB is getting much bigger.

In comparison, the Ludlows operation ran very few routes, prob 10 at max, but they were all concentrated on the Halesowen area meaning that Ludlows had a strong presence there making any day or weekly ticket of value to the people who lived there.

Couldn't agree more with the above statements

[winston]

Bottom line is diamond is and always have been the underdog their marginal success in previous years or their decline in recent years is more to do with management and budgets of the company. Maybe rotala have bitten off more they can chew! All operators have the ability to do their own travel passes as diamond do its just that the NX one is more competitive than others nothing to do with being unfair. NX offer a product to its customers they choose to buy it. Is it unfair and should the CC be involved with tesco as Asda don't accept their clubcard? Same difference.the choice is there. A local route to me operated by diamond and hansons the 226 hansons ran it first diamond butted in 5 minutes in front until centro stepped in diamond run tendered and commercially but it seems clear that hansons do better.

Exactly my point, Hansons do better because they started the route and people became familiar with their buses and drivers. Then they see Diamond trying to push in and take over the route when it becomes a success, in my experience people don't take kindly to that.

I know i have said this before, but i still feel one operator to one service would be better than the present situation.

Nope competition is essential. As can be seen in the case of Arriva Cannock, where there is little competition it leads to high fares and poor buses as indeed NX has done on the Bristol Road-bad old tridents that companies like Oxford bus would have withdrawn years ago. Competition is absolutely vital-NXWM put new buses on the 404 BECAUSE of diamond and the cheaper fares are down to competition.

So Tridents like those on the Bristol Road would have been withdrawn years ago?
Complete crap. Oxford are still using T reg tridents, older than anything on the Bristol Road

Actually Oxford are withdrawing this batch of tridents and buses in the Go North East and Brighton fleets of similar ages have been sold on-admittedly a couple of step entry olympians soldier on on low cost services-another thing NX has failed to really try after the 26 experiment-but brighton certainly is selling buses around 13 years old. As for stagecoach in Manchester, many of the buses on Magic Bus services are newer and/or in better condition than some of what BC turns out each day.

Oxford may well be withdrawing the T-reg Tridents, but the photo below taken at Hants & Trim seems to indicate that they are being refurbished for use elsewhere within Go-Ahead, my guess would be Hedingham which has also taken T-reg Tridents from Brighton & Hove

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59115230@N06/8491644979/in/photostream

[Ash]

It just seems like Diamond seemed to have fizzled out a little in the West Midlands, and the gap between them and NXB is getting much bigger.

In comparison, the Ludlows operation ran very few routes, prob 10 at max, but they were all concentrated on the Halesowen area meaning that Ludlows had a strong presence there making any day or weekly ticket of value to the people who lived there.

Couldn't agree more with the above statements

Diamond have tried and have just failed and they now just stick to the services they know will bring them in revenue and commercially with services that their predecessors have operated for a very long time before being taken oven by diamond either being Ludlow's/Birmingham Coach Company or Pete's Travel (Peoples Express) or Choice when there operated the 171 to Mossley. A possible service they could try out could be the 302 but I would like to see them create a new service and try something different although probably unlikely to work as it would face some kind of competition on route by NXWM may be a service from West Bromwich to Stourbridge via Briely Hill not sure if there has ever been a service from Stourbridge to West Bromwich before.

[SMK]

The 900 is quite a popular service but never really gets competition on it similar to 126 and that could be due to the length just my theory.

IIRC Diamond tried the 126 and came off of it soon after.
I'm not sure if they did the full route though.

[Ash]

The 900 is quite a popular service but never really gets competition on it similar to 126 and that could be due to the length just my theory.

IIRC Diamond tried the 126 and came off of it soon after.
I'm not sure if they did the full route though.

Diamond tried the 126E between Wolverhampton and Dudley but like you mentioned it didn't last long.

[Kevin]

Something I hoped would come out of the network reviews (and to some extent it has happened) was the whole idea of creating new routes from scratch that diamond (or other companies) could develop as their own. Off the top of me head though, Diamond don't appear to have really taken anything and run with it

[Dylan4579]

In comparison, the Ludlows operation ran very few routes, prob 10 at max, but they were all concentrated on the Halesowen area meaning that Ludlows had a strong presence there making any day or weekly ticket of value to the people who lived there.

Whilst this isn't a problem for Diamond now in Redditch as they wie become the dominant operator, perhaps they wouldn't benefit from focusing there efforts on one part of the Birmingham / Black Country and building up a network of commercial services as opposed to picking up mainly tendered work.

Maybe west brom?Black Diamond have lots of routes there alerady, signiture solihill, and maybe an expasion into coventry for blue.

[CRP2012]

In comparison, the Ludlows operation ran very few routes, prob 10 at max, but they were all concentrated on the Halesowen area meaning that Ludlows had a strong presence there making any day or weekly ticket of value to the people who lived there.

Whilst this isn't a problem for Diamond now in Redditch as they wie become the dominant operator, perhaps they wouldn't benefit from focusing there efforts on one part of the Birmingham / Black Country and building up a network of commercial services as opposed to picking up mainly tendered work.

Maybe west brom?Black Diamond have lots of routes there alerady, signiture solihill, and maybe an expasion into coventry for blue.

How long before people start wanting a coventry - merry hill cnt service  ;D ;D

[winston]

In comparison, the Ludlows operation ran very few routes, prob 10 at max, but they were all concentrated on the Halesowen area meaning that Ludlows had a strong presence there making any day or weekly ticket of value to the people who lived there.

Whilst this isn't a problem for Diamond now in Redditch as they wie become the dominant operator, perhaps they wouldn't benefit from focusing there efforts on one part of the Birmingham / Black Country and building up a network of commercial services as opposed to picking up mainly tendered work.

Maybe west brom?Black Diamond have lots of routes there alerady, signiture solihill, and maybe an expasion into coventry for blue.

How long before people start wanting a coventry - merry hill cnt service  ;D ;D

I can think of one person who would think it was a good idea...... can't see many people fancying sitting on a bus all the way from Coventry though