https://westmidlandsmetro.com/services-suspended-from-13-november-2021-until-further-notice/
Quote from: Solo1 on November 12, 2021, 03:06:05 PM
https://westmidlandsmetro.com/services-suspended-from-13-november-2021-until-further-notice/
What a time of the year to do these repairs, the faults were found earlier in the year so instead of making temporary repairs, why didn't they suspend the service then and carry out the necessary full repairs!
Shows that the current operators don't have a clue at how to run a tramway, National Express did a lot better!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on November 12, 2021, 05:05:21 PM
What a time of the year to do these repairs, the faults were found earlier in the year so instead of making temporary repairs, why didn't they suspend the service then and carry out the necessary full repairs!
Shows that the current operators don't have a clue at how to run a tramway, National Express did a lot better!
Surely the are 7/8 new trams that have arrived this summer, surely these need to be put into service so people can travel on the system.
It's a major design flaw that CAF have known about since 2017 so the flaw needs to be rectified fully not just ram.some new trams into service & hope for the best
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on November 12, 2021, 05:05:21 PM
What a time of the year to do these repairs, the faults were found earlier in the year so instead of making temporary repairs, why didn't they suspend the service then and carry out the necessary full repairs!
Shows that the current operators don't have a clue at how to run a tramway, National Express did a lot better!
Its an absolute shambles. This is not long after a whole stretch of track along Corporation Street had to be dug up and relaid after only five years, at a cost of millions of pounds.
And at a time when increasing traffic levels around the city centre are making bus services unreliable, and local train journeys are being cancelled left, right and centre.
Quote from: Steveminor on November 12, 2021, 07:03:17 PM
It's a major design flaw that CAF have known about since 2017 so the flaw needs to be rectified fully not just ram.some new trams into service & hope for the best
If that's the case then I hope that CAF will make these rectifications at their own cost, rather than expecting more taxpayers money to be thrown away as with the 'remedial' track works.
Why caf if got problems with them
Quote from: Stu on November 12, 2021, 07:21:37 PM
Its an absolute shambles. This is not long after a whole stretch of track along Corporation Street had to be dug up and relaid after only five years, at a cost of millions of pounds.
And at a time when increasing traffic levels around the city centre are making bus services unreliable, and local train journeys are being cancelled left, right and centre.
If that's the case then I hope that CAF will make these rectifications at their own cost, rather than expecting more taxpayers money to be thrown away as with the 'remedial' track works.
I have to agree. There's a credibility issue for the tramway system now - why should we spend hundreds of millions on more of it if the 74 and 79 bus are constantly having to come to the rescue?
As a transport enthusiast I would in theory like to see the tram system expand, but it looks like a sprint network (with Platinum style double-decks please) will be much more robust.
On the TfWM website, underneath "West Midlands Metro suspended" is the strapline "Ready when you're ready". Don't think so. Sorry.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on November 12, 2021, 07:54:42 PM
I have to agree. There's a credibility issue for the tramway system now - why should we spend hundreds of millions on more of it if the 74 and 79 bus are constantly having to come to the rescue?
As a transport enthusiast I would in theory like to see the tram system expand, but it looks like a sprint network (with Platinum style double-decks please) will be much more robust.
On the TfWM website, underneath "West Midlands Metro suspended" is the strapline "Ready when you're ready". Don't think so. Sorry.
Greenbus will be providing a replacement service tomorrow between Wolverhampton and Birmingham. Buses have just finished being washed and cleaned inside and out.
Quote from: pndriver on November 12, 2021, 07:59:07 PM
Greenbus will be providing a replacement service tomorrow between Wolverhampton and Birmingham. Buses have just finished being washed and cleaned inside and out.
What about Monday and beyond though?
Would they have enough buses to operate these and the school services they run?
If this design flaw has been known about since 2017, then it begs the question when were the WMCA told about this?
If they were told about it at the time, why didn't they work towards finding a solution so that the trams could receive the rectidication they required before the whole fleet needed to be withdrawn??
If there weren't told about it at the time, then it leads to serious questions about CAF!
Quote from: 2206 on November 12, 2021, 08:00:34 PM
What about Monday and beyond though?
Would they have enough buses to operate these and the school services they run?
Monday to Friday tickets being accepted on nx 74/79
Quote from: pndriver on November 12, 2021, 07:59:07 PM
Greenbus will be providing a replacement service tomorrow between Wolverhampton and Birmingham. Buses have just finished being washed and cleaned inside and out.
Will it be running fast or calling at stops?
Sydney Australia have now suspended all there urbos 3 trams due to cracks in the boogie boxes. Suspension is for 18 months
Besançon in france has the same issue with trams required to return to CAF for repairs which the manufacturer says will take 1 month or vehicle.
For their part CAF is claiming poor track maintenance is causing the issues although they have agreed to repair Belgrade trams at no cost
Quote from: DJ on November 12, 2021, 10:22:03 PM
Will it be running fast or calling at stops?
It's limited stop according to TfWM website, there is a timetable available here:
https://disruptions.tfwm.org.uk/?mode=tram
Also, only accepting Metro, nBus plus Metro, nNetwork and concessionary passes, not able to buy singles or returns (if anyone just planned a ride out)
Quote from: Stu on November 13, 2021, 07:18:27 PM
It's limited stop according to TfWM website, there is a timetable available here:
https://disruptions.tfwm.org.uk/?mode=tram
Also, only accepting Metro, nBus plus Metro, nNetwork and concessionary passes, not able to buy singles or returns (if anyone just planned a ride out)
Just need to pre buy a one day version of one of these
Quote from: Tony on November 13, 2021, 07:43:43 PM
Just need to pre buy a one day version of one of these
I think the idea of this service is to benefit those who have weekly or monthly tickets already paid for. I'm not sure if its wise for enthusiasts to buy tickets just so they can enjoy an unusal ride out on a Green Bus vehicle.
I certainly wouldn't be encouraging people to do so.
If you don't have a Metro pass already, then you may as well just buy a bus ticket and travel by bus (will work out cheaper too!)
Quote from: Stu on November 13, 2021, 08:37:28 PM
I think the idea of this service is to benefit those who have weekly or monthly tickets already paid for. I'm not sure if its wise for enthusiasts to buy tickets just so they can enjoy an unusal ride out on a Green Bus vehicle.
I certainly wouldn't be encouraging people to do so.
If you don't have a Metro pass already, then you may as well just buy a bus ticket and travel by bus (will work out cheaper too!)
Someone can buy a NBus Metro day on a NX service and use it on there. It might just simply be they are not able to issue tickets for whatever reason so its prepaid tickets only.
I'm not sure it matters why people are travelling to be honest, providing there's enough capacity anyway.
How many other operators euro/worldwide use these CAF Ubro/Urbo 3 trams?
Edinburgh uses the same style tram as anything been reported north of the border with issues to cracks in their trams.
Quote from: Ginger66 on November 15, 2021, 06:15:27 PM
How many other operators euro/worldwide use these CAF Ubro/Urbo 3 trams?
Edinburgh uses the same style tram as anything been reported north of the border with issues to cracks in their trams.
An Melbourne Australia operator has withdrawn theirs and I think an operator in either France or Spain has too
If they had faults why didn't they cancel the order of the new CAF trams & get some different ones
Quote from: Solo1 on November 16, 2021, 08:04:49 AM
If they had faults why didn't they cancel the order of the new CAF trams & get some different ones
Because you cannot predict metal fatigue in advance
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2021, 09:17:16 AM
Because you cannot predict metal fatigue in advance
Depending upon the type of steel and the predicted use and load, you can.
I understand that the structural grade of the steel is in question - something that will be the basis of this and other investigations on other custom,er's trams.
The issue first came to light in 2017 so the question is do when did tfwm order more trams & were they aware of the issues
Quote from: Steveminor on November 16, 2021, 05:22:05 PM
The issue first came to light in 2017 so the question is do when did tfwm order more trams & were they aware of the issues
Isn't there still issues with the class 195 which are CAF products too, hence why the 196s are delayed into service. This is creating a bit of bad reputation for CAF.
The 331scl as well plus the CAF Oaris EMUs in Norway suffered from chassis cracks. Poor manufacturing. Why dont people just buy Bombardier
Quote from: Steveminor on November 16, 2021, 07:01:35 PM
The 331scl as well plus the CAF Oaris EMUs in Norway suffered from chassis cracks. Poor manufacturing. Why dont people just buy Bombardier
The South Western Trains class 701s which the rail unions are describing as 'not fit for purpose' and are now two years late don't seem to be doing Bombadier's reputation much good either.
Siemens seem to have the best reputation at the moment
Radio 2 was describing the closure this morning as "engineering works", with the traffic reporter (who is from the West Midlands) not realising that "Wolverhampton St George's - Centenary Square" was the whole route.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 16, 2021, 07:41:16 PM
Radio 2 was describing the closure this morning as "engineering works", with the traffic reporter (who is from the West Midlands) not realising that "Wolverhampton St George's - Centenary Square" was the whole route.
This is what happens when you put ex BBC local radio hosts on a national radio station who are "personality" lead with no understanding of the actual situation.
do you think midland metro will loan trams from heritage tramways that can fit on the standard gauge track such as using Blackpool balloon trams.
ie. using Balloon trams between St Pauls and Grand Central / Priestfield and Wolverhampton St Georges.
Quote from: Ginger66 on November 17, 2021, 07:59:21 PM
do you think midland metro will loan trams from heritage tramways that can fit on the standard gauge track such as using Blackpool balloon trams.
ie. using Balloon trams between St Pauls and Grand Central / Priestfield and Wolverhampton St Georges.
I very much doubt it. WMCA are clearly happy to piss away taxpayers money, but I think the costs involved in transporting other vehicles to loan just for a few weeks would raise some eyebrows.
The current fleet will likely be patched up for repair and then put back into service. Then in a couple of years (when those repairs start to fail again), TfWM will announce some 'investment in new fleet vehicles' with more millions of pounds ready to spend on buying new trams, which will be bought 'on the cheap' again, and thus the cycle continues.
Quote from: Stu on November 17, 2021, 08:16:51 PM
I very much doubt it. WMCA are clearly happy to piss away taxpayers money, but I think the costs involved in transporting other vehicles to loan just for a few weeks would raise some eyebrows.
The current fleet will likely be patched up for repair and then put back into service. Then in a couple of years (when those repairs start to fail again), TfWM will announce some 'investment in new fleet vehicles' with more millions of pounds ready to spend on buying new trams, which will be bought 'on the cheap' again, and thus the cycle continues.
Absolutely spot on! We will have this all again too when the new ones currently on delivery finally enter service. I believe CAF are already trying to deflect and are blaming badly maintained rails for some of the cracks with other operators, does make me wonder if that is why suddenly so much money has been spent re-doing Corporation St?!
Replacing track would surely be used by CAF in their argument regarding it being an infrastructure problem as they will argue there are other systems that do not have an issue (although those trams are newer than all the ones that have failed.
I dont think it's a case of just patching them up anymore as I believe the damage is far more extensive than it was previously & requires the entire bogie boxes replacing which isnt a small job.
As for using balloon trams etc I think there would potentially be gauging issues maybe voltage issues & potentially gradient issues in some sections. Politically how would they pass off one of the flagship projects of the west Midlands now using rented first generation historic rolling stock.
Quote from: Stu on November 17, 2021, 08:16:51 PM
I very much doubt it. WMCA are clearly happy to piss away taxpayers money, but I think the costs involved in transporting other vehicles to loan just for a few weeks would raise some eyebrows.
The current fleet will likely be patched up for repair and then put back into service. Then in a couple of years (when those repairs start to fail again), TfWM will announce some 'investment in new fleet vehicles' with more millions of pounds ready to spend on buying new trams, which will be bought 'on the cheap' again, and thus the cycle continues.
What happened to the previous/original fleet of trams?
Quote from: Wumpty on November 19, 2021, 08:47:52 AM
What happened to the previous/original fleet of trams?
some scrap some in storage somewhere in the east midlnds think it was
Quote from: Solo1 on November 19, 2021, 09:18:41 AM
some scrap some in storage somewhere in the east midlnds think it was
I know the logistics of roading them back to here and recommisioning are a faf, though surely worth the effort and cost to maintain public confidence in trams and WMCA?
They were moved to Long Marston but most have subsequently been scrapped I believe.
;
Bring on the horsecar-on-rails!
According to the express and star services could be suspended for longer than four weeks and may go into 2022.
If this is the case surely getting trams on loan from other operators is needs to try and get people moving across the region
Did I read somewhere that the weight on the batteries on the trams, for use on the non electrified sections, had something to do with it?
At first glance, they can't win either way, as they presumbly can't electrify certain sections(the city centre bit, I gather!) either, plus there seems to be a fairly regular problem with the electrics, which is another reason for the batteries, so they'd have a backup!
Reading the various traffic reports on Twitter, it always seems to be certain sections affected for one reason or another.
Personally (don't know if anyone else agrees with me?), I've never been keen on the Wolves to Priestfield section, because of H & S, due to the amount of accidents at the island over the years.
It does unnerve me when I've used that section in the past.
Quote from: Ginger66 on November 20, 2021, 06:29:32 PM
According to the express and star services could be suspended for longer than four weeks and may go into 2022.
If this is the case surely getting trams on loan from other operators is needs to try and get people moving across the region
The thing is that there are alternatives to the Metro service, in the form of bus and train services.
The longer this goes on for, Metro passengers will get used to those alternatives.
And at some point, people are going to question "whats the point of the Metro then?"
The other question not being asked is what is happening with all the Metro tram drivers while this service is suspended? Are they just being 'furloughed' on full pay? If suitably qualified, could they be 'loaned' as bus drivers for this interim?
Quote from: Ginger66 on November 20, 2021, 06:29:32 PM
According to the express and star services could be suspended for longer than four weeks and may go into 2022.
If this is the case surely getting trams on loan from other operators is needs to try and get people moving across the region
As soon as I saw originally it'll be at least 4 weeks I knew we wouldn't be seeing trams again at all this year. And if I'm honest, I think all the troubles they've had this year has killed off the long term future. If they can't get the basics right like infrastructure and rolling stock there is no hope. I think it's the start of slow drawn out sad end.
If only it had been a proper railway line like it was before...
The politicians seem to have gone to their bunkers to hide on this. About time His Imperial Highness Mr Mayor waved the magic wand and sorted it surely?
If it wasn't for a shortage of bus drivers, now would be a Good idea to have a stab at bringing back the old 979 route.
Too much congestion country that one anyway
This was in express &star Saturday https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2021/11/20/revealed-cracks-first-appeared-on-midland-metro-tram-nearly-two-years-ago/ so why wasn't it sorted out then
Quote from: Solo1 on November 21, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
This was in express &star Saturday https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2021/11/20/revealed-cracks-first-appeared-on-midland-metro-tram-nearly-two-years-ago/ so why wasn't it sorted out then
Because maybe the other trams were all fine then. You can't fix what isn't broken.
What has happened to the brand new trams that arrived during the spring/summer surely these are not affected with the same problem and should be pressed into service even if they run a 7 tram service between 6:00 - 9:00 and 16:00 - 18:30 to help keep people moving during rush hour.
Quote from: Ginger66 on November 23, 2021, 07:58:36 PM
What has happened to the brand new trams that arrived during the spring/summer surely these are not affected with the same problem and should be pressed into service even if they run a 7 tram service between 6:00 - 9:00 and 16:00 - 18:30 to help keep people moving during rush hour.
It's a very good question.
My thoughts on this whole matter include the question "are all these trams in imminent danger of falling apart any time soon?".
Safety is obviously a clear concern. And what I don't know is how severe these 'cracks' in the chassis are, or how extensive the remedial works involved are.
If defects have been identified, has any assessment been undertaken as to whether the vehicles affected could be continued in service for a further period of time before they 'significantly worsen'?
In order words, would it be more feasible to continue to operate a service - albeit at a reduced frequency - while a smaller number of trams are repaired, on a rolling basis?
Unless all these trams are in imminent danger of falling apart and putting the safety of passengers at risk, it makes no sense to me to take them all out of service, as only a couple at a time would be able to be repaired.
The other unanswered question is 'what happens with the tram drivers and conductors while all this goes on?'
I suppose they're all being 'furloughed' on full-pay, but then again how many will quit and find other jobs in the meantime? I guess come next year when the trams are back in service, we'll end up with a shortage of tram drivers.
From what I understand the cracks are severe & with panels removed can be seen to open & close while the tram is moving on a flat straight bit of track. Orr are strict when it comes to safety.
Ask yourself this, if it was a bus that had severe cracks around the suspension would you be happy to get on it?
As for the new trams, they have had no test running & mileage put on them (certainly not enough to be certified by the ORR. With a defect on all the rest of the fleet I'd think it highly unlikely that the ORR would pass them as safe for service.
I personally don't see the metro in operation anytime soon.
That's appalling! I'm amazed a modern manufacturer with all the computer aided design available today could produce something that bad. I noticed from the start that the CAFs rode very hard over the crossing in a set of points.
Quote from: Stevo on November 24, 2021, 09:06:13 AM
That's appalling! I'm amazed a modern manufacturer with all the computer aided design available today could produce something that bad. I noticed from the start that the CAFs rode very hard over the crossing in a set of points.
The CAD aspect isn't relevant - this relates to the steel and the castings used in the actual components. If these have hairline cracks then, depending upon the use, can lie dormant for many years without issue. The investigation will look at all aspects of supply chain and CAF production.
If the steel/casting has a non-visible defects, were the components X-rayed (if part of the quality process) and was this a CAF fault. With castings, the molten metal forms to the shape of the cast reducing the likelihood of cracks increasing if manifested in the process. With steel, like beams/sections used in the chassis, these will fail more easily as the steel is manipulated into shape and into standard shape/lengths. If the structure isn't supported, or the steel grade incorrect, this is where cracks will form and defects will appear much quicker. The cracks they can see are a danger, but it's the defects you can't see that will cause greater concern, hence not pressing the new fleet into a knee-jerk service until full inspection is completed.
I am currently traveling on a CAF product, 195021, hopefully still in one piece as it is in servic :D
Quote from: Tony on November 24, 2021, 10:35:51 AM
I am currently traveling on a CAF product, 195021, hopefully still in one piece as it is in servic :D
I'm more concerned that they think you're an ordinary passenger - how very dare they!!!!!
Look at the Sydney Urbos cars with the same trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKaWOIb29Ng They're expecting them off for up to 18 months!
Quote from: Sandy Lane on November 21, 2021, 10:12:07 AM
The politicians seem to have gone to their bunkers to hide on this. About time His Imperial Highness Mr Mayor waved the magic wand and sorted it surely?
The waving of the magic wand seems to be working. The Mayor just said now on the BBC he reckons some will be running by about mid-December ish. Wonder if there will be any test running first?
Quote from: Steveminor on November 24, 2021, 05:11:47 AM
From what I understand the cracks are severe & with panels removed can be seen to open & close while the tram is moving on a flat straight bit of track. Orr are strict when it comes to safety.
Ask yourself this, if it was a bus that had severe cracks around the suspension would you be happy to get on it?
OK, if the defects are as bad as that then fair enough, like I said I didn't know the extent of this 'fault'.
The media just parrot the press releases put out by TfWM/WMCA and don't go into this kind of detail, and typical of the media that they don't press TfWM/WMCA for more details.
Then again they wouldn't want passengers knowing they have been riding around on potential death-traps for weeks or even months.
Quote from: Wumpty on November 24, 2021, 09:23:42 AM
The CAD aspect isn't relevant - this relates to the steel and the castings used in the actual components. If these have hairline cracks then, depending upon the use, can lie dormant for many years without issue. The investigation will look at all aspects of supply chain and CAF production.
Cheap Chinese steel, that'll no doubt be it. ::)
I imagine CAF will have negotiated a spec and a price for these trams, then once agreed, corners will have been cut in order to reduce costs and maximise profit returns.
Any investigation will be a whitewash - CAF have already blamed poor track infrastructure/maintenance, and they'll say that this was not factored into design specifications, or something along those lines. Hopefully this will lead into a full investigation into the design and contracting of the track building and infrastructure, as that went all quiet once the track started to be relaid on Corporation Street.
Quote from: Stevo on November 24, 2021, 05:34:43 PM
Look at the Sydney Urbos cars with the same trouble. They're expecting them off for up to 18 months!
Could probably build a whole new fleet in the same time! Makes you wonder how long it will be before someone turns around and states it would be more cost-effective to buy new vehicles.
Just seen the video that was posted about the ones in Sydney and it is horrific. Surely heads have to roll regarding whoever purchased the trams that are deemed unsafe.
According to British trams online CAF was awarded the second contract in October 2019 to provide the additional trams for line 1 and line 2. If it is true about the cracks appearing during late 2019.
Can transport for west midlands suspend the order for the remainder of the order of the 29 new CAF trams as eight have only been delivered as the rest of the new fleet are not due till the middle of 2023.
Are the companies in the UK that can build lightweight trams such as Parry's People Movers
The BBC News website has a new article on "What is wrong with West Midlands trams?" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-59391779 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-59391779)
It basically confirms what has appeared in this thread, but not sure it has revealed anything new.
Quote from: Stu on November 24, 2021, 06:47:27 PM
Cheap Chinese steel, that'll no doubt be it. ::)
In fairness, although the Chinese steel *is* cheap (more to do with their communist mass production - they don't want folk standing around doing nowt!), it is of a very good quality - only downside is that they play "cake and eat it" by adding more bromide to the steel, technically making it an alloy, thus drawing rebates from the Chinese and other governments!
I'd personally wager it's a miscalculation on the grade of structural steel required and specified for the components.
Coming out of the West Brom game this evening about 10pm, I noticed 2 X1 branded Platinums parked on the Birmingham Road near opposite the ground. I'm guessing these may have been on Metro duties?
Also, the other side of the M5 J1 island on Birmingham road (towards West Bromwich) there were 3 buses parked up out of service plus 2 inspectors. One of these turned into a 74 and headed off but I'm not sure what the other 2 were unless they were all extra 74s too put on for the football because there was no Metro?
Quote from: j789 on November 26, 2021, 11:52:26 PM
Coming out of the West Brom game this evening about 10pm, I noticed 2 X1 branded Platinums parked on the Birmingham Road near opposite the ground. I'm guessing these may have been on Metro duties?
Also, the other side of the M5 J1 island on Birmingham road (towards West Bromwich) there were 3 buses parked up out of service plus 2 inspectors. One of these turned into a 74 and headed off but I'm not sure what the other 2 were unless they were all extra 74s too put on for the football because there was no Metro?
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=1861.msg297118#msg297118
Came over the crossing at Black Lake last night and noticed what looked like tail lights sat between the stop and the tunnel possibly a tram out on test.
Quote from: 4679 on November 27, 2021, 10:33:59 AM
Came over the crossing at Black Lake last night and noticed what looked like tail lights sat between the stop and the tunnel possibly a tram out on test.
The brand new urbo trams are been commissioned, and while the line is closed to passengers the testing has been happening during the day and night so hopefully by the four week deadline they can get the new trams into service along with any fixed trams subject to approval of the ORR.
http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=42551
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/wolverhampton/2021/12/08/one-third-of-west-midlands-metro-trams-repaired-after-nearly-four-weeks-out-of-action/
They'd repaired 7 a couple of weeks ago though! In a previous report they'd said 7 were repaired but 9 were needed even for a limited service.
We just had the news from the government asking people to work from home yet again and it comes as we expect some kind of news from MML regarding if/when services should resume along line one.
Tram 28 was running through the city centre on test yesterday afternoon.
according to the metro website as confirmed a service should return at some point next week, as most nearly half the fleet is fixed.
So it seems a pretty good turnaround to fix and it seems it's roughly about 2-3 days maybe 4 at push to mend a tram of the cracks
In my opinion, we have been here before.
In the past they have found cracks and they have been repaired only for new cracks to be found and have to be repaired.
So what is to stop, 6 or 12 months down the line, trams having to be repaired yet again?
Service will resume tomorrow between Wolverhampton St Georges and Bull Street, initially up to every 10 minutes.
https://twitter.com/WMmetro/status/1470802950532513803
Why not down to grand central???
Quote from: Jack D on December 14, 2021, 08:52:21 PM
Why not down to grand central???
Probably because it would need one extra tram to maintain a 10 minute frequency
Quote from: Tony on December 14, 2021, 08:55:34 PM
Probably because it would need one extra tram to maintain a 10 minute frequency
also the newer trams are still been tested with mileage accumulation before being allowed into public service. But the question is when do the tram start covering the line to five ways as it was due before the end of 2021.
Quote from: Ginger66 on December 15, 2021, 07:03:01 AM
But the question is when do the tram start covering the line to five ways as it was due before the end of 2021.
I'm siure its been admitted somewhere that this is unlikely to happen until January now.
Trams will return to running the full line to Library from tomorrow (12th Feb).
Has this been announced publicly,or is it a softly,softly resumption of service?
Quote from: suavegarv on February 11, 2022, 09:33:14 PM
Has this been announced publicly,or is it a softly,softly resumption of service?
Andy Street has put it on his Facebook page
Quote from: Tony on February 11, 2022, 09:54:26 PM
Andy Street has put it on his Facebook page
It's also on the Metro website and Twitter, and on the Express and Star.
Quote from: DJ on February 12, 2022, 12:18:32 AM
It's also on the Metro website and Twitter, and on the Express and Star.
Yet nothing on the Metro or TfWM Facebook pages. You'd think they'd want to advertise its reopening.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-60359755
I thought that the reason that trams were not going to The Library was because of the track replacement work, not the problems they were having with the trams?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 13, 2022, 04:51:37 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-60359755
I thought that the reason that trams were not going to The Library was because of the track replacement work, not the problems they were having with the trams?
The track replacement was a seperate issue, once that was resolved, it was a lack of available vehicles that meant services were curtailed to Bull Street - longer route + same frequency = higher PVR
As more vehicles get repaired, and new ones become available for service, we may yet see trams going past Five Ways!
Quote from: Stu on February 13, 2022, 07:40:07 PM
The track replacement was a seperate issue, once that was resolved, it was a lack of available vehicles that meant services were curtailed to Bull Street - longer route + same frequency = higher PVR
As more vehicles get repaired, and new ones become available for service, we may yet see trams going past Five Ways!
And hopefully, along the Pipers Row extension at t'other end!
When are both extensions due to open does anyone know, also, how is the Dudley extension coming along, havnt been past it in ages last I saw the road outside zoo was being dug up??
Quote from: danny on February 14, 2022, 03:39:51 PM
When are both extensions due to open does anyone know, also, how is the Dudley extension coming along, havnt been past it in ages last I saw the road outside zoo was being dug up??
There's an update on it in the local rag today, the first tracks have now been laid along Castle Hill, with the mayor there for the usual publicity photos.
Service suspended again today, after a reduced service yesterday. Who wants to take bets on the problem this time? ::)
Quote from: DJ on March 19, 2022, 12:21:53 PM
Service suspended again today, after a reduced service yesterday. Who wants to take bets on the problem this time? ::)
Fiver on a points failure
low and behold trams are suspended yet again.
https://twitter.com/WMmetro/status/1505262878575759361
"Operational issues" ::)
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2022/03/20/trams-cracked-again-as-west-midlands-metro-admits-reason-for-suspending-services/ Cracks Again!!!
If it's the floor is it down to the weight of all the people that get on in the rush hour if so can't they run extra trams over the busy part of the line like city -west brom
so this is the third time of suspension with the same issue,
Questions WMCA should be asking now are.
(1) Why haven't we cancelled the order for trams being built?
(2) Why haven't we brought British?
[Nottinghams first batch Incentro was built in Derby]
(3) How many more suspension are needed before heads to role.
It definitely wouldn't be cheap, but they need to be looking at a replacement fleet at this point.
What a joke this is becoming.
You have Andy Street in the paper saying that test running will start on the Edgbaston extension in May with a public service from June, surely it would be better to get the current network up and running reliably first.
The Midland Metro system is becoming the laughing stock of all metro systems around the world!!
WMCA must be wondering what will be back in service first, the trams or the hydrogen buses. Not ideal.
Quote from: cardew on March 20, 2022, 04:19:29 PM
WMCA must be wondering what will be back in service first, the trams or the hydrogen buses. Not ideal.
I believe that Tony has said it's looking like April for Hydrogens to resume
CAF seem to have a rep of being Cheap As F### as the 195s and 196s have all had issues though the 397s and mark 5a (TP ones) have had minimum issues
Quote from: Solo1 on March 20, 2022, 12:50:07 PM
If it's the floor is it down to the weight of all the people that get on in the rush hour if so can't they run extra trams over the busy part of the line like city -west brom
I think its a bit more than that to be honest, though it would make a great April Fool story for the 'solution' to be having the trams run empty. 8)
@Ginger66 I agree buy British keep our people in a job & should now cancel the order & go with another tram builder in the UK who else has problems with the trams
Quote from: DJ on March 20, 2022, 02:42:07 PM
It definitely wouldn't be cheap, but they need to be looking at a replacement fleet at this point.
A private company would probably be going to the wall at this point.
However as this is run by the WMCA, it would seem that money is no object, as it is paid for by taxpayers money through Government funding. So no, it wouldn't surprise me, if some sort of new deal is brokered in order to purchase new tram vehicles, as a result of this fiasco.
(Funny how there were no issues like this with the first generation of Metro trams)
Who was responsible for the order of these trams originally? Would it have been Network WM or National Express? If it was NX, I bet they are breathing a huge sigh of relief whilst TfWM are cursing them no end!
Quote from: Gareth on March 20, 2022, 07:30:58 PM
Who was responsible for the order of these trams originally? Would it have been Network WM or National Express? If it was NX, I bet they are breathing a huge sigh of relief whilst TfWM are cursing them no end!
They were ordered iirc during the NX era but I'm not sure who led the procurement process
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 21, 2022, 01:20:04 AM
They were ordered iirc during the NX era but I'm not sure who led the procurement process
I think it would of been network west midlands & NX just ran the trams
they have trams 37-45 at the metro depot why cant they run them unless they still need the miles wuth some of them i know most have been out
Quote from: Solo1 on March 21, 2022, 09:03:43 AM
they have trams 37-45 at the metro depot why cant they run them unless they still need the miles wuth some of them i know most have been out
What sort of frequency would that be to enable to send them out? Maybe they may need mods to prevent issues that may occured in the older trams.
I do wonder if it's a weight issue with the batteries on top? Maybe the older trams can not support the weight? Increasing wear and tear of the chassis and bogies?
Or the sharp curve into Stephenson Place?
NXWM are accepting metro tickets until Friday
maybe time to look at Parry Peoples Movers as they produce as PPM 50 and 60 Single Deck Tram or a PPM130 (two PPM60 back to back)
A tram ran slowly towards Upper Bull St this afternoon from the Snow Hill direction. I was too far away to see a fleet number but it did have a Contravision ad on the centre section so I doubt it's one of the new cars. The strange thing about all this is that the Edinburgh system has CAF Urbos trams too, but they seem to have no cracks.
ive never been a fan of these trams
problems have plagued it for years, the ONLY times ive tried to use it, they have been stacked out and still trying to get more on when there is no room left.
my suggestions......
(A) SCRAP THE LOT
(B) ORDER A NEW FLEET FROM SOMEBODY MORE RELIABLE
(C) SACK ANDY STREET
(D) A FULL PUBLIC ENQUIRY INTO THE WHOLE DISASTER SHOULD BE HELD
(E) SEE IF BLACKPOOL CAN SPARE A FEW FROM THE HERITAGE FLEET http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/aaron/tongue.gif
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on March 21, 2022, 06:16:40 PM
ive never been a fan of these trams
problems have plagued it for years, the ONLY times ive tried to use it, they have been stacked out and still trying to get more on when there is no room left.
my suggestions......
(A) SCRAP THE LOT
(B) ORDER A NEW FLEET FROM SOMEBODY MORE RELIABLE
(C) SACK ANDY STREET
(D) A FULL PUBLIC ENQUIRY INTO THE WHOLE DISASTER SHOULD BE HELD
(E) SEE IF BLACKPOOL CAN SPARE A FEW FROM THE HERITAGE FLEET http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/aaron/tongue.gif
Not sure how scrapping the lot, and ordering a new fleet is supposed to stop your overcrowding problem
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2022, 06:18:18 PM
Not sure how scrapping the lot, and ordering a new fleet is supposed to stop your overcrowding problem
the new trams would be bigger or, at peak times do as Blackpool does and double up
i.e. join 2 trams together
or add some short workings
its certainly time to do something instead of insisting Line 1 will extend
and new routes will be built - get what youve got working or go back to buses
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on March 21, 2022, 06:27:02 PM
the new trams would be bigger or, at peak times do as Blackpool does and double up
i.e. join 2 trams together
or add some short workings
its certainly time to do something instead of insisting Line 1 will extend
and new routes will be built - get what youve got working or go back to buses
How do you suppose running bigger or double trams on the existing infrastructure?#
Blackpool do not run double trams
I like option E.
Borrow some Balloons from BTS until a permanent fix is in place
According to Andy Streets post this evening the cracks are around the doors.
If Midland Metro hired Balloons from Blackpool they could only run from Grand Central to Saint Pauls or Priestfield to Wolverhampton
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2022, 02:27:40 PM
NXWM are accepting metro tickets until Friday
& if the trams are not fixed by the weekend will NXWM Extend the acceptance of metro tickets untill it's fixed
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 21, 2022, 08:40:03 PM
If Midland Metro hired Balloons from Blackpool they could only run from Grand Central to Saint Pauls or Priestfield to Wolverhampton
Better than nothing though & gives the opportunity for some PR spin on how Birmingham has a touch of the seaside with Blackpool trams making an appearance
Isn't the voltage slightly different?
750v Birmingham vs 600v Blackpool
And the WM system has regeneration when the trams brake, meaning the voltage can go as high as 1000 volts.
Quote from: Solo1 on March 22, 2022, 06:37:13 AM
& if the trams are not fixed by the weekend will NXWM Extend the acceptance of metro tickets untill it's fixed
Only if NX get some reimbursement from West Midlands Metro.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-60866233
Weeks not days, surely this proves that the trams are not fit for purpose!!
It's all a bit misleading with the constant referral to 'older trams' too. They're not that old! 6/7 years?
Quote from: Solo1 on March 22, 2022, 06:37:13 AM
& if the trams are not fixed by the weekend will NXWM Extend the acceptance of metro tickets untill it's fixed
Quote from: Stu on March 24, 2022, 10:14:05 AM
Only if NX get some reimbursement from West Midlands Metro.
BBC article linked to above confirms ticket acceptance until Sunday 3rd April.
What happened to the remaining four T69's that did not get scrapped. I know one ended up been donated to UK Tram as part of a test fleets, one to a Birmingham Museum. but not sure what happened to the others.
Last I hear 2 were in storage at long marston
Stevek uk rail posted a video on YouTube 2 months ago, just watched it & you can clearly see 4 t69s they're about 1 min & 5 seconds in
Tram 37 was running this morning up colmore crow not in service
41 was running the other day. Seen passing Hawthornes heading north towards west Bromwich
https://westmidlandsmetro.com/works-to-restore-metro-services-is-underway/
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/west-midlands-metro-reveals-date-24081409
Quote from: Solo1 on May 27, 2022, 03:49:15 PMhttps://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/west-midlands-metro-reveals-date-24081409
So depending when the rest of the fleet is available the so called five ways opening is going to be missed and can see this now been autumn 2022 when it's was supposed to be Dec 2021.
Has anyone mentioned that trams are running into St. Georges on batteries - I assume because the section from the junction to the bottom of Queen St is not ready for energisation?
.
Where is the previous "neutral section" or its equivalent.
I also noted that there is a twelve minute time warp between the two platforms at St. Georges@