London Midland Trains

[Bob]

Do LM still operate any sprinters now? They used to be a staple of the chase line.

[Tony]

Do LM still operate any sprinters now? They used to be a staple of the chase line.

There are still 3 class 150s, one does Bedford-Bletchley, on does a New Street-Hereford diagram and the third is a maintenance spare. There are also the 8 class 153 which turn up on Rugeleys, Worcesters, Bedford-Bletchley, & Coventry-Nuneaton

[Bob]

153? Are they the odd looking single carriage stuck on the front or back of the modern ones at busy times?  The ones with opening windows?

[Sh4318]

153? Are they the odd looking single carriage stuck on the front or back of the modern ones at busy times?  The ones with opening windows?

Yeah, they are:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/madabouttransport/15633627791/

They were originally 2 carriage Class 155s, but single carriages were converted into Class 153s

[mikestone]

No it doesn't - it merely tells you what class it is timed for, not what is diagrammed. Clearly the difference between 90 and 100 mph timings is irrelevant since the line speed is less than that  - the fact that London Midland have gone to the trouble of inserting class 1 symbols on some trains fairly clearly indicates that the others are going to be 323s.
;
Perusal of RTT suggests that 323s will do the following Mon-Fri
;
set 1
detach of 08.12 Redditch-Lichfield then work
09.08 BHM-WPN etc. - inwards from Walsall being a dmu t/w 09.05 Salop
;
set 2
14+25 Soho -New St to work
15.08 BHM-WPN etc -  14.30 Walsall forms 15.01 to Liverpool
;
set 3
16+58 Soho-New St  to work
17.27 BHM-WSL - 1650 from WPN goes to Coventry
;

Incorrect. If you look at all current Sunday workings, on the BHM-WVH stopper, the timings are "Class EMU at 90 mph". If you look at all Sunday workings after the 14th December, the timings are "Class EMU at 100 mph". On the CrossCity line, all workings are "Class EMU at 90 mph" - which, has we know, are all 323 diagrams , BHM-WVH currently have "Class EMU at 90 mph", apart from the ones operated by 350s. I've checked all of your noted workings, and they have "Class EMU at 100 mph" - indicating a class 350 is worked.

Class 323 top speed is 90 mph and Class 350 is 100 mph. Interestingly enough, it seems the International - New St shuttle will continue to be worked by a Class 323

Please read what I have written
The timings shown in real time trains, open train times, working timetables and internal computer  systems only reflect the timings *not* what is diagrammed. Obviously TOCs will have the trains timed so as to minimise delay payments, although usually standardised to avoid publishing variations of odd minutes - in this case since the line speed is generally 60 or 75  "100 mph timings" are likely to be identical to "90 mph" and I believe are actually slower to account for CL.350s slower door cycle time, Wolverhampton-New St increasing from 24 minutes to 25.
There is a diagram on the Crewe-Manchester line diagrammed Cl.323, but timed for sprinters having been altered to accommodate the absence of the set that struck a road vehicle near Congleton around five years ago and never changed back when the unit returned!

[Tony]

No it doesn't - it merely tells you what class it is timed for, not what is diagrammed. Clearly the difference between 90 and 100 mph timings is irrelevant since the line speed is less than that  - the fact that London Midland have gone to the trouble of inserting class 1 symbols on some trains fairly clearly indicates that the others are going to be 323s.
;
Perusal of RTT suggests that 323s will do the following Mon-Fri
;
set 1
detach of 08.12 Redditch-Lichfield then work
09.08 BHM-WPN etc. - inwards from Walsall being a dmu t/w 09.05 Salop
;
set 2
14+25 Soho -New St to work
15.08 BHM-WPN etc -  14.30 Walsall forms 15.01 to Liverpool
;
set 3
16+58 Soho-New St  to work
17.27 BHM-WSL - 1650 from WPN goes to Coventry
;

Incorrect. If you look at all current Sunday workings, on the BHM-WVH stopper, the timings are "Class EMU at 90 mph". If you look at all Sunday workings after the 14th December, the timings are "Class EMU at 100 mph". On the CrossCity line, all workings are "Class EMU at 90 mph" - which, has we know, are all 323 diagrams , BHM-WVH currently have "Class EMU at 90 mph", apart from the ones operated by 350s. I've checked all of your noted workings, and they have "Class EMU at 100 mph" - indicating a class 350 is worked.

Class 323 top speed is 90 mph and Class 350 is 100 mph. Interestingly enough, it seems the International - New St shuttle will continue to be worked by a Class 323

Please read what I have written
The timings shown in real time trains, open train times, working timetables and internal computer  systems only reflect the timings *not* what is diagrammed. Obviously TOCs will have the trains timed so as to minimise delay payments, although usually standardised to avoid publishing variations of odd minutes - in this case since the line speed is generally 60 or 75  "100 mph timings" are likely to be identical to "90 mph" and I believe are actually slower to account for CL.350s slower door cycle time, Wolverhampton-New St increasing from 24 minutes to 25.
There is a diagram on the Crewe-Manchester line diagrammed Cl.323, but timed for pacers having been altered to accommodate the absence of the set that struck a road vehicle near Congleton around five years ago and never changed back when the unit returned!

I will back Mike up on this. The gentleman who does all diagrams for the units catches the same train into Birmingham as me most mornings and explains the background behind how he allocates units to diagrams

[Isle of Stroma]

Incorrect. If you look at all current Sunday workings, on the BHM-WVH stopper, the timings are "Class EMU at 90 mph". If you look at all Sunday workings after the 14th December, the timings are "Class EMU at 100 mph". On the CrossCity line, all workings are "Class EMU at 90 mph" - which, has we know, are all 323 diagrams , BHM-WVH currently have "Class EMU at 90 mph", apart from the ones operated by 350s. I've checked all of your noted workings, and they have "Class EMU at 100 mph" - indicating a class 350 is worked.

Class 323 top speed is 90 mph and Class 350 is 100 mph. Interestingly enough, it seems the International - New St shuttle will continue to be worked by a Class 323

The only 350's rated at 100mph are 350/2, the rest are 110mph. 321's are 100mph, but that doesn't mean you'll be getting those either....

Tony, could you have a word with the diagramming guy please & ask him if He knows when 323's were upped from 75 to 90mph? Ta.

[mikestone]

Looking into it further  the 05.33 Birmingham-Walsall and 06.01 back to Wolverhampton will also be 323 as the next working as the next working is 07.19 to Four Oaks.
;

[Sh4318]

No it doesn't - it merely tells you what class it is timed for, not what is diagrammed. Clearly the difference between 90 and 100 mph timings is irrelevant since the line speed is less than that  - the fact that London Midland have gone to the trouble of inserting class 1 symbols on some trains fairly clearly indicates that the others are going to be 323s.
;
Perusal of RTT suggests that 323s will do the following Mon-Fri
;
set 1
detach of 08.12 Redditch-Lichfield then work
09.08 BHM-WPN etc. - inwards from Walsall being a dmu t/w 09.05 Salop
;
set 2
14+25 Soho -New St to work
15.08 BHM-WPN etc -  14.30 Walsall forms 15.01 to Liverpool
;
set 3
16+58 Soho-New St  to work
17.27 BHM-WSL - 1650 from WPN goes to Coventry
;

Incorrect. If you look at all current Sunday workings, on the BHM-WVH stopper, the timings are "Class EMU at 90 mph". If you look at all Sunday workings after the 14th December, the timings are "Class EMU at 100 mph". On the CrossCity line, all workings are "Class EMU at 90 mph" - which, has we know, are all 323 diagrams , BHM-WVH currently have "Class EMU at 90 mph", apart from the ones operated by 350s. I've checked all of your noted workings, and they have "Class EMU at 100 mph" - indicating a class 350 is worked.

Class 323 top speed is 90 mph and Class 350 is 100 mph. Interestingly enough, it seems the International - New St shuttle will continue to be worked by a Class 323

Please read what I have written
The timings shown in real time trains, open train times, working timetables and internal computer  systems only reflect the timings *not* what is diagrammed. Obviously TOCs will have the trains timed so as to minimise delay payments, although usually standardised to avoid publishing variations of odd minutes - in this case since the line speed is generally 60 or 75  "100 mph timings" are likely to be identical to "90 mph" and I believe are actually slower to account for CL.350s slower door cycle time, Wolverhampton-New St increasing from 24 minutes to 25.
There is a diagram on the Crewe-Manchester line diagrammed Cl.323, but timed for sprinters having been altered to accommodate the absence of the set that struck a road vehicle near Congleton around five years ago and never changed back when the unit returned!

EDIT: oh, I see it now. I wasn't taking ECS workings into account. Sorry for the confusion

[D10]

It's been chaos on the Snow Hill lines today. There were major delays in the AM peak after a points failure at The Hawthorns and signal problems near Stratford.

There were still delays in the Evening peak, with all Stratford trains diverted via Solihull and a coach replacement services serving stations between Whitlock End and Wilmcote, also some delays still on the Stourbridge line.

[Sh4318]

It's been chaos on the Snow Hill lines today. There were major delays in the AM peak after a points failure at The Hawthorns and signal problems near Stratford.

There were still delays in the Evening peak, with all Stratford trains diverted via Solihull and a coach replacement services serving stations between Whitlock End and Wilmcote, also some delays still on the Stourbridge line.

Hopefully will be solved by tomorrow. Quite a few cancelled trains on the CrossCity line too

[Justin Tyme]

Presumably the signal problem near Stratford (at Danzey?) spread somehow, because attempts to even reach Whitlocks End from Birmingham were abandoned around 5 pm for the night.  Must have been a long, long return home to stations out in the country - an NXWM 3 to Shirley Station, then a rail replacement coach beyond.

[Tony]

Incorrect. If you look at all current Sunday workings, on the BHM-WVH stopper, the timings are "Class EMU at 90 mph". If you look at all Sunday workings after the 14th December, the timings are "Class EMU at 100 mph". On the CrossCity line, all workings are "Class EMU at 90 mph" - which, has we know, are all 323 diagrams , BHM-WVH currently have "Class EMU at 90 mph", apart from the ones operated by 350s. I've checked all of your noted workings, and they have "Class EMU at 100 mph" - indicating a class 350 is worked.

Class 323 top speed is 90 mph and Class 350 is 100 mph. Interestingly enough, it seems the International - New St shuttle will continue to be worked by a Class 323

He reckons it was about 1997, just as they were being replaced on the Liverpools by 170s!  Apparently from new the cab door seals weren't very good, and above 75 the whistling noise was so bad you couldn't here the AWS!

The only 350's rated at 100mph are 350/2, the rest are 110mph. 321's are 100mph, but that doesn't mean you'll be getting those either....

Tony, could you have a word with the diagramming guy please & ask him if He knows when 323's were upped from 75 to 90mph? Ta.

[Sh4318]

I for one am excited for the new timetable change. Sundays especially will be very useful for me. 4tph between Smethwick Galton Bridge and Birmingham stations. I'm not happy about almost all Wolverhampton - New St diagrams being Class 350s, but I'll learn to live with that

[Bob]

On a LM train from cannock to Birmingham and was supposed to meet someone on it, theyre in the middle carriage and the bloody door between that and the first one doesnt work so I cant get to them. The conductor ( if theyve bothered their arse to put one on) also cant get to us. So im gonna be faced with a huge queue at new st when I get off. Thanks LM rubbish service as usual