London Midland Trains

[andy]

Why on earth at the busiest time of year do they think it's acceptable to put a two carriage train on tje chase line? Uncomfortable journey absolutely packed to the rafters.

While I don't like it as much as you, perhaps you could say where they can get any more carriages from

I am heartily sick of hearing people go on about there not being enough carriages on the train they happened to catch. They have no understanding whatsoever of how things work. Railways unfortunately cannot be as responsive to seasonal peaks in demand as buses and coaches can as there is a set allocation of rolling stock to each operator and route. If LM want to increase carriage allocations (as they just have on a number) they have to apply to do so. And diesel stock is stretched across the network nationally and generally unavailable. You will see little improvement on the Chase line until electification.

[Stuharris 6360]

Why on earth at the busiest time of year do they think it's acceptable to put a two carriage train on tje chase line? Uncomfortable journey absolutely packed to the rafters.

While I don't like it as much as you, perhaps you could say where they can get any more carriages from

I am heartily sick of hearing people go on about there not being enough carriages on the train they happened to catch. They have no understanding whatsoever of how things work. Railways unfortunately cannot be as responsive to seasonal peaks in demand as buses and coaches can as there is a set allocation of rolling stock to each operator and route. If LM want to increase carriage allocations (as they just have on a number) they have to apply to do so. And diesel stock is stretched across the network nationally and generally unavailable. You will see little improvement on the Chase line until electification.

I agree, you cannot have resources sat around doing nothing for most of the year just to cater for extra demand at Christmas.

[Tony]

Well the one going in had an old carriage stuck on the back ? And was less than half as busy? If they dont have enough train carriages to operate busy journeys ( still often rammed when uts not xmas) then theyre not really up to much? Itd be like nx operating e200s on peak time X51s every day...

The difference is massive, you can blame a bus company for not having the right number of proper size buses. Train companies cannot jus go down Ensign and bu a second hand train

[Stuharris 6360]

Well the one going in had an old carriage stuck on the back ? And was less than half as busy? If they dont have enough train carriages to operate busy journeys ( still often rammed when uts not xmas) then theyre not really up to much? Itd be like nx operating e200s on peak time X51s every day...

The difference is massive, you can blame a bus company for not having the right number of proper size buses. Train companies cannot jus go down Ensign and bu a second hand train

Also it's not just a case of hiring in trains from other railway companies who may have spare capacity. Drivers and guards need to be trained on those type of trains if they are a class of train they have never operated before, this is costly, plus having to pay for train paths to move those trains to eg:Tyseley, fuel, etc:

It used to be easier in the days before proper privatisation, remember when Regional Railways would hire in pairs of 20s to top and tail coaching stock between Derby and Skegness when it was busy in the summer months.

[Tony]

Well the one going in had an old carriage stuck on the back ? And was less than half as busy? If they dont have enough train carriages to operate busy journeys ( still often rammed when uts not xmas) then theyre not really up to much? Itd be like nx operating e200s on peak time X51s every day...

The difference is massive, you can blame a bus company for not having the right number of proper size buses. Train companies cannot jus go down Ensign and bu a second hand train

Also it's not just a case of hiring in trains from other railway companies who may have spare capacity. Drivers and guards need to be trained on those type of trains if they are a class of train they have never operated before, this is costly, plus having to pay for train paths to move those trains to eg:Tyseley, fuel, etc:

It used to be easier in the days before proper privatisation, remember when Regional Railways would hire in pairs of 20s to top and tail coaching stock between Derby and Skegness when it was busy in the summer months.

The 16:42 from New Street which I would put money on is the one Bob caught has another problem in that it cannot be two couple units (153+170) because a bit further up the diagram it has to reverse not in a station and the driver has to be able to walk from one cab to the other limiting it to either a two or three car 170.

If there are no 3 cars on maintenance then we get a 3 car otherwise we get a two car. I have had all the diagrams explained to me how they are making best use of the stock they have and I have been unable to find anything they could do better without robbing Peter to pay Paul. They even do things now where a 6 car will arrive at Four Oaks, drop three off and then join onto another 3 half hour later to make sure the correct evening peak Cross City has six carriages.

What will be interesting is what LM get to replace the 321s. They have been gazumped by Scotrail at the end of the current lease for the 7 321s so they have got to find another 7 untis from somewhere which could even be 319s

[Stuharris 6360]

Well the one going in had an old carriage stuck on the back ? And was less than half as busy? If they dont have enough train carriages to operate busy journeys ( still often rammed when uts not xmas) then theyre not really up to much? Itd be like nx operating e200s on peak time X51s every day...

The difference is massive, you can blame a bus company for not having the right number of proper size buses. Train companies cannot jus go down Ensign and bu a second hand train

Also it's not just a case of hiring in trains from other railway companies who may have spare capacity. Drivers and guards need to be trained on those type of trains if they are a class of train they have never operated before, this is costly, plus having to pay for train paths to move those trains to eg:Tyseley, fuel, etc:

It used to be easier in the days before proper privatisation, remember when Regional Railways would hire in pairs of 20s to top and tail coaching stock between Derby and Skegness when it was busy in the summer months.

The 16:42 from New Street which I would put money on is the one Bob caught has another problem in that it cannot be two couple units (153+170) because a bit further up the diagram it has to reverse not in a station and the driver has to be able to walk from one cab to the other limiting it to either a two or three car 170.

If there are no 3 cars on maintenance then we get a 3 car otherwise we get a two car. I have had all the diagrams explained to me how they are making best use of the stock they have and I have been unable to find anything they could do better without robbing Peter to pay Paul. They even do things now where a 6 car will arrive at Four Oaks, drop three off and then join onto another 3 half hour later to make sure the correct evening peak Cross City has six carriages.

What will be interesting is what LM get to replace the 321s. They have been gazumped by Scotrail at the end of the current lease for the 7 321s so they have got to find another 7 untis from somewhere which could even be 319s

What do they use 321s on these days Tony?

[598]

Well the one going in had an old carriage stuck on the back ? And was less than half as busy? If they dont have enough train carriages to operate busy journeys ( still often rammed when uts not xmas) then theyre not really up to much? Itd be like nx operating e200s on peak time X51s every day...

The difference is massive, you can blame a bus company for not having the right number of proper size buses. Train companies cannot jus go down Ensign and bu a second hand train

Also it's not just a case of hiring in trains from other railway companies who may have spare capacity. Drivers and guards need to be trained on those type of trains if they are a class of train they have never operated before, this is costly, plus having to pay for train paths to move those trains to eg:Tyseley, fuel, etc:

It used to be easier in the days before proper privatisation, remember when Regional Railways would hire in pairs of 20s to top and tail coaching stock between Derby and Skegness when it was busy in the summer months.

The 16:42 from New Street which I would put money on is the one Bob caught has another problem in that it cannot be two couple units (153+170) because a bit further up the diagram it has to reverse not in a station and the driver has to be able to walk from one cab to the other limiting it to either a two or three car 170.

If there are no 3 cars on maintenance then we get a 3 car otherwise we get a two car. I have had all the diagrams explained to me how they are making best use of the stock they have and I have been unable to find anything they could do better without robbing Peter to pay Paul. They even do things now where a 6 car will arrive at Four Oaks, drop three off and then join onto another 3 half hour later to make sure the correct evening peak Cross City has six carriages.

What will be interesting is what LM get to replace the 321s. They have been gazumped by Scotrail at the end of the current lease for the 7 321s so they have got to find another 7 untis from somewhere which could even be 319s

What do they use 321s on these days Tony?

Commuter services (mostly) south of Northampton and on the Abbey line between Watford Junction and St Albans Abbey

[mikestone]

has your source actually been told that it's the LM ones going to Scotland - an alternative would seem to be to send seven from Anglia, released by re-instating the stored 317s?

[Tony]

has your source actually been told that it's the LM ones going to Scotland - an alternative would seem to be to send seven from Anglia, released by re-instating the stored 317s?

Definitely the LM ones.

[D10]

Why on earth at the busiest time of year do they think it's acceptable to put a two carriage train on tje chase line? Uncomfortable journey absolutely packed to the rafters.

While I don't like it as much as you, perhaps you could say where they can get any more carriages from

I am heartily sick of hearing people go on about there not being enough carriages on the train they happened to catch. They have no understanding whatsoever of how things work. Railways unfortunately cannot be as responsive to seasonal peaks in demand as buses and coaches can as there is a set allocation of rolling stock to each operator and route. If LM want to increase carriage allocations (as they just have on a number) they have to apply to do so. And diesel stock is stretched across the network nationally and generally unavailable. You will see little improvement on the Chase line until electification.

Good point, but on the Snow Hill lines there is normally plenty of 2 and 3 carriage trains running at the weekends all year round. These can be rammed at any time of the year. One particular problem is on Sunday mornings on the Stourbridge section not helped due to the late start and low frequency.

[Sh4318]

Why on earth at the busiest time of year do they think it's acceptable to put a two carriage train on tje chase line? Uncomfortable journey absolutely packed to the rafters.

While I don't like it as much as you, perhaps you could say where they can get any more carriages from

I am heartily sick of hearing people go on about there not being enough carriages on the train they happened to catch. They have no understanding whatsoever of how things work. Railways unfortunately cannot be as responsive to seasonal peaks in demand as buses and coaches can as there is a set allocation of rolling stock to each operator and route. If LM want to increase carriage allocations (as they just have on a number) they have to apply to do so. And diesel stock is stretched across the network nationally and generally unavailable. You will see little improvement on the Chase line until electification.

Good point, but on the Snow Hill lines there is normally plenty of 2 and 3 carriage trains running at the weekends all year round. These can be rammed at any time of the year. One particular problem is on Sunday mornings on the Stourbridge section not helped due to the late start and low frequency.

Earliest train into Birmingham on a Sunday at 10:30 is poor for such a busy line. I tend to stay away from the Snow Hill line on the weekends, if I can help it, for this very reason. It's even worse when the Albion are playing at home. I just use the Stour Valley on weekends, and I can on Sundays now it's 2tph between BHM & SGB

[Justin Tyme]

All this shows one weakness with railway "privatisation" -  when it comes to rolling stock, the Department for Transport still calls the shots.  And with the best will in the world, getting new rolling stock seems to take years.

I can't help thinking about the Cambridgshire Busway (along the path of old St Ives - Cambridge line), which many rail enthusiasts said should be a railway rather than a busway.  It was a runaway success and needed more buses.  Stagecoach simply ordered more and within a few months they arrived, allowing improved services to meet demand.  What would have happened if it had been a railway?

[Bob]

Get to cannock for the 20.56 to Walsall,  the sign said "on time" till the last minute then changed to cancelled! !!! S##T service! The 10pm says on time, will that be cancelled as well!? Good god

[Tony]

Get to cannock for the 20.56 to Walsall,  the sign said "on time" till the last minute then changed to cancelled! !!! S##T service! The 10pm says on time, will that be cancelled as well!? Good god

That one failed at Walsall on the way to Rugeley. The 22:01 is already sat at Rugeley waiting to come back on time

[Bob]

So Iit fails at walsall and doesnt even make it out to rugeley and back yet they leave the "on time" til a couple of minutes before its due out the opposite direction at cannock?  Appalling.  If the bus hadnt finished so early I wouldn't even be bothering with the train