Cannock Garage

[Bob]

Frequency went up 1st June so no longer needed

Will the 1 and 3 be coming back 15th June?

[Simon@Arriva]

Will the 1 and 3 be coming back 15th June?

Not on 15th no.

[Bob]

Not on 15th no.

Are they coming back at all?

[Simon@Arriva]

Are they coming back at all?

As with everything at the moment depends on usage levels overall and the arrangements for the government funding but I would like to think so yes

[WyreForestShuttle]

As with everything at the moment depends on usage levels overall and the arrangements for the government funding but I would like to think so yes

The funding for stage carriage services have been clearly set by DfT unlike a few weeks ago when I will admit the clarification of the replacement for CBSSG was not delivered in hindsight quite as smoothly as one would hope.

Arriva & all operators should now be clear with what services are completely commercial & what support is required from DfT so the comments from @Simon@Arriva are a little baffling to some of us.

[Tony]

The funding for stage carriage services have been clearly set by DfT unlike a few weeks ago when I will admit the clarification of the replacement for CBSSG was not delivered in hindsight quite as smoothly as one would hope.

Arriva & all operators should now be clear with what services are completely commercial & what support is required from DfT so the comments from @Simon@Arriva are a little baffling to some of us.

They are not completely clear as you suggest as when CBSSG finishes no-one knows what passenger levels will be like

[WyreForestShuttle]

They are not completely clear as you suggest as when CBSSG finishes no-one knows what passenger levels will be like

The funding & guidance is clear to Arriva & all other operators:

The Department for Transport (DfT) has outlined the terms and conditions of its £254m COVID-19 Bus Service Support Grant (CBSSG) Restart package.

CBSSG Restart will support the bus industry in England through the recovery period from coronavirus COVID-19. It runs for an initial 12-week period, backdated to 12 May. The scheme incentivises an increase of services to 100% of full timetables within the context of maintaining social distancing, but it does not allow for operators to return either a profit or a loss while it is in force.

CBSSG Restart replaces the previous CBSSG, which has been in effect since 17 March. CBSSG was introduced to support the industry when strict movement restrictions were in force. While some terms and conditions of CBSSG Restart are similar or identical to those for CBSSG, others are not, particularly in relation to service levels.

"The overarching aim of CBSSG Restart is to ensure that operators remain viable while continuing to provide key services, and that the bus industry is able to support the economic recovery once the crisis has passed,"

Like the previous CBSSG Restart uses a baseline 100.51p per commercial live kilometre payment as its foundation.

Oher costs may also be claimed through CBSSG Restart. They include those accrued for PPE and safe operation. Those that are a result of removing staff from the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme early and are for returning vehicles to service will be settled via a one-off payment in June.

Agreement must be reached with TfWM & other relevant local authorities on service levels that are to be provided. Operators may propose to run up to 100% of scheduled commercial mileage for a typical non-school week for the period of the new scheme.

Buses should not be overcrowded and that their capacity must allow social distancing guidelines to be met.

Operators are to agree with TfWM & similar on at least a four-weekly basis what service level is needed. That includes taking steps to respond to and comply with ' reasonable requests to amend routes and timetables.

[metrocity]

They are not completely clear as you suggest as when CBSSG finishes no-one knows what passenger levels will be like

The only certainty is if a service hasnt operated for 3 months then if and when it is eventually reinstated passenger levels will only ever be a fraction of what they were pre COVID

[WyreForestShuttle]

The only certainty is if a service hasnt operated for 3 months then if and when it is eventually reinstated passenger levels will only ever be a fraction of what they were pre COVID

Operators are already sucessfully applying for funding to restart services reinstated on the expectation of lower patronage.

Diamond Bus Linited has reached agreement with Worcestershire County Council for funding for its Service 303 which is expected to have much reduced patronage.

The post CBSSG scheme has been designed to be flexible and to meet the needs of operators and the changing demand for services in the new conditions we are living in now.

It is on this basis I find the comments from @Simon@Arriva quite baffling.

[Steveminor]

The key point is that cbssg restart is for an initial period of 12 weeks, so there is no guarantee after that initial period. The other point is that if there is an under payment the dft will "endeavour" to make up the shortfall, so again no guarantee there either.

Passenger numbers are extremely depressed & it is highly unlikely they will ever return to pre covid levels & its likely to be some time before services return to commercial levels in.any meaningfull amount.

Wyreforestshuttle you say myself & Mr Dunn are respected & competant  professional well so is @Simon@Arriva .

[WyreForestShuttle]

The key point is that cbssg restart is for an initial period of 12 weeks, so there is no guarantee after that initial period. The other point is that if there is an under payment the dft will "endeavour" to make up the shortfall, so again no guarantee there either.

Passenger numbers are extremely depressed & it is highly unlikely they will ever return to pre covid levels & its likely to be some time before services return to commercial levels in.any meaningfull amount.

Wyreforestshuttle you say myself & Mr Dunn are respected & competant  professional well so is @Simon@Arriva .

Unlike yourself & Mr Dunn I have never had the pleasure of meeting of him in the course of my work.

I know little of the gentleman in the industry and really know only of Arriva from the tender takeovers from Wednesfield and the recent igo collapse resulting in an emergency tender handed to them. We always send his company invitations to our meetings but they have failed to turn up on every single occasion unfortunately.

I based my comment on his reply to a post after all the detailed planning operators including yourself have undertaken for next weeks relaxation of the lockdown and the realities of the post CBSSG scheme which can best be best described like myself of having a difficult birth.

I personally found it baffling given it was from a member of local management of an operator & important planning as you well know is needed by operators to serve the public currently.

However given some of my own personal comments on the forum perhaps not a sound base to judge from perhaps.

[LazyGuy222]

Unlike yourself & Mr Dunn I have never had the pleasure of meeting of him in the course of my work.

I know little of the gentleman in the industry and really know only of Arriva from the tender takeovers from Wednesfield and the recent igo collapse resulting in an emergency tender handed to them. We always send his company invitations to our meetings but they have failed to turn up on every single occasion unfortunately.

I based my comment on his reply to a post after all the detailed planning operators including yourself have undertaken for next weeks relaxation of the lockdown and the realities of the post CBSSG scheme which can best be best described like myself of having a difficult birth.

I personally found it baffling given it was from a member of local management of an operator & important planning as you well know is needed by operators to serve the public currently.

However given some of my own personal comments on the forum perhaps not a sound base to judge from perhaps.

Have you ever thought of sounding a little less rude?
Simon knows what he is doing. Currently I don't think it is anyone's place to question the viability of services, considering the fact that buses are still operating with very few passengers. Instead of being abrupt and almost trying to start an argument, let him do his job and bring services levels up slowly in the coming weeks.

[WyreForestShuttle]

Have you ever thought of sounding a little less rude?
Simon knows what he is doing. Currently I don't think it is anyone's place to question the viability of services, considering the fact that buses are still operating with very few passengers. Instead of being abrupt and almost trying to start an argument, let him do his job and bring services levels up slowly in the coming weeks.

No! I judge people on thier actions, sucesses & failures in life .

[l.murphy123]

Entirely my own thoughts on this one but I reckon the 1 won't run again (replacement being X51 or altered 2) and I also think the 3 will be replaced by an extension of NXWM number 8. Probably a nonsense thought but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

Also with regards to all the managers of companies during my campaign 2 years ago I found them all very good to chat to including both Simons, James and Ben. I certainly wouldn't want to be doing their job at the moment!

[Simon@Arriva]

I am not sure what more to say.  I enjoy the debate!

We have a number of scenarios worked up in the planning team but the exact timings of what we will implement and when depends on a number of things based around funding, passenger usage, social distancing (if it went to 1m) and the number of drivers available (we still have many on furlough for health reasons).  We are monitoring these daily or weekly and judging what to do and when.