Pensnett Garage

[Trident 4194]

The problem is Birmingham city centre. Any bus service that has to enter there is bound to get delayed or become unreliable due to the increasing traffic congestion.

You only have to look at the questions in the recent South-West and South Birmingham surveys to get an idea of what NX Bus (and ultimately TfWM/WMCA) are going to work towards:

-Fewer direct services going into the city centre from the suburbs and periphery ("out-lying") areas of Birmingham.
-Faster and more frequent city centre services along key 'trunk' corridors.

Passengers are going to be inconvenienced because many will have to change buses in order to continue their journey to/from the city centre. But then again passengers who only use these services in local areas, will be less inconvenienced because their 'out-lying' services will be more reliable as a result of not having to come in and out of the city centre congestion hotspot.

But what is ultimately better: being able to travel from Welsh House Farm, or Tile Cross, into the city centre, on one bus service, that takes ages and is unreliable? Or using a local service that may be less frequent but reliable, and then changing onto a more frequent service to continue your journey?

We can't all have a direct bus from where we live to where we want to get to. My opinion is that it is better to have a properly organised network of bus routes, so that even if you have to change buses to complete your journey, it is not a massive inconvenience.

But we haven't seen the reliability of the new service- could be worse. I still don't understand why they don't just reduce the 99 to every 30 mins between Halesowen and Birmingham- oh wait they are- which makes no sense!

[j789]

Could two of the 3 buses an hour on the 99 just not have been rerouted around Quinton to run Via West Boulevard, Tennal Lane and Tennal road (like the old 20 route) instead of Welsh House Farm with only one bus an hour going the current route so to minimise delays. Going via West Boulevard etc would also free up more time to compensate for any further delay in service on the way to the City Centre. This would mean most people maintained a decent service, the bus would have more running time freed up and some raods would even get a new link into Harborne and the City Centre (Tennal Road). Seems to make sense to me!!

[Stuharris 6360]

The problem is Birmingham city centre. Any bus service that has to enter there is bound to get delayed or become unreliable due to the increasing traffic congestion.

You only have to look at the questions in the recent South-West and South Birmingham surveys to get an idea of what NX Bus (and ultimately TfWM/WMCA) are going to work towards:

-Fewer direct services going into the city centre from the suburbs and periphery ("out-lying") areas of Birmingham.
-Faster and more frequent city centre services along key 'trunk' corridors.

Passengers are going to be inconvenienced because many will have to change buses in order to continue their journey to/from the city centre. But then again passengers who only use these services in local areas, will be less inconvenienced because their 'out-lying' services will be more reliable as a result of not having to come in and out of the city centre congestion hotspot.

But what is ultimately better: being able to travel from Welsh House Farm, or Tile Cross, into the city centre, on one bus service, that takes ages and is unreliable? Or using a local service that may be less frequent but reliable, and then changing onto a more frequent service to continue your journey?

We can't all have a direct bus from where we live to where we want to get to. My opinion is that it is better to have a properly organised network of bus routes, so that even if you have to change buses to complete your journey, it is not a massive inconvenience.

You may well be right @Stu , but then wouldn't there be a case for introducing a hopper style ticket (like London have introduced).

If you are going to introduce "Fewer direct services going into the city centre from the suburbs and periphery ("out-lying") areas of Birmingham" then it needs to be a policy across the board, and passengers should not be penalised for it, ie: NE not to make money from it.

[Tony]

But we haven't seen the reliability of the new service- could be worse. I still don't understand why they don't just reduce the 99 to every 30 mins between Halesowen and Birmingham- oh wait they are- which makes no sense!

No it doesn't because then between the Hospital & Birmingham, the busiest part of the route you cannot get the even 10 minute frequency with the 98

[j789]

You may well be right @Stu , but then wouldn't there be a case for introducing a hopper style ticket (like London have introduced).

If you are going to introduce "Fewer direct services going into the city centre from the suburbs and periphery ("out-lying") areas of Birmingham" then it needs to be a policy across the board, and passengers should not be penalised for it, ie: NE not to make money from it.

To be fair though, most people travelling by bus would probably also return as well so would buy a day ticket which is like a 'hopper' ticket. I guess you could argue though that NX would make more money from concession passess as they would need to be scanned twice rather than once.

[Trident 4194]

No it doesn't because then between the Hospital & Birmingham, the busiest part of the route you cannot get the even 10 minute frequency with the 98

Then why are eliminating part of the busiest part of the route? I'm sure passengers don't care about even 10 mins- not like there's any competition...

[Tony]

To be fair though, most people travelling by bus would probably also return as well so would buy a day ticket which is like a 'hopper' ticket. I guess you could argue though that NX would make more money from concession passess as they would need to be scanned twice rather than once.

The people doing these changes are professional planners, not armchair fantasy bus planners. If the changes they make drive passengers away they will not be very popular with senior management, the aim of any service change is to a) increase passenger numbers or b) make a service more reliable (which in turn increases passenger numbers) or c) save money without losing passengers. They have a lot of data to look at to see passenger flows, not just a quick look in Halesowen Bus Station like Trident 4194.

[Stu]

If you are going to introduce "Fewer direct services going into the city centre from the suburbs and periphery ("out-lying") areas of Birmingham" then it needs to be a policy across the board, and passengers should not be penalised for it, ie: NE not to make money from it.

If you're already making two journeys a day (in and out of the city centre), a Daysaver is already cheaper than buying two single tickets. So to the passenger, buying a Daysaver is no more expensive if you have to catch 4 buses in one day, than 2 buses, in order to complete your journey.

[winston]

The problem is Birmingham city centre. Any bus service that has to enter there is bound to get delayed or become unreliable due to the increasing traffic congestion.

You only have to look at the questions in the recent South-West and South Birmingham surveys to get an idea of what NX Bus (and ultimately TfWM/WMCA) are going to work towards:

-Fewer direct services going into the city centre from the suburbs and periphery ("out-lying") areas of Birmingham.
-Faster and more frequent city centre services along key 'trunk' corridors.

Passengers are going to be inconvenienced because many will have to change buses in order to continue their journey to/from the city centre. But then again passengers who only use these services in local areas, will be less inconvenienced because their 'out-lying' services will be more reliable as a result of not having to come in and out of the city centre congestion hotspot.

But what is ultimately better: being able to travel from Welsh House Farm, or Tile Cross, into the city centre, on one bus service, that takes ages and is unreliable? Or using a local service that may be less frequent but reliable, and then changing onto a more frequent service to continue your journey?

We can't all have a direct bus from where we live to where we want to get to. My opinion is that it is better to have a properly organised network of bus routes, so that even if you have to change buses to complete your journey, it is not a massive inconvenience.

Some of the problems as regards Traffic Congestion within Birmingham City Centre are self created by Birmingham City Council with bus priorties not being a priority in the slightest, even now when it's too late. Buses have been continuously pushed further outside the City Centre in favour of the Metro / pedestrianising various streets. Cars should have been banned from the City Centre a long time ago, deliveries to shops within the City Centre boundary should be made out of hours to prevent lorries blocking streets etc. There are no park & ride sites/services serving the City Centre to relieve traffic congestion like in many other cities, bus lanes are removed and the road space given back in favour of the car.

What happened to Sprint??? 

Time is a big factor in modern day living, having to change buses will be inconvience where routes operate at lower frequencies in the out lying areas, as it's highly unlikely passengers will be able to jump off one bus straight on to another without a wait and what happens when the connection doesn't turn up / is delayed. Only those that have no alternative will continue to make the journey & change, others will simply resort to using the car or other means as it's quicker.

[Stuharris 6360]

The people doing these changes are professional planners, not armchair fantasy bus planners. If the changes they make drive passengers away they will not be very popular with senior management, the aim of any service change is to a) increase passenger numbers or b) make a service more reliable (which in turn increases passenger numbers) or c) save money without losing passengers. They have a lot of data to look at to see passenger flows, not just a quick look in Halesowen Bus Station like Trident 4194.

Well reducing the service between QE and Halesowen to half hourly is not likely to increase passenger numbers, more likely to lose them.

[j789]

The people doing these changes are professional planners, not armchair fantasy bus planners. If the changes they make drive passengers away they will not be very popular with senior management, the aim of any service change is to a) increase passenger numbers or b) make a service more reliable (which in turn increases passenger numbers) or c) save money without losing passengers. They have a lot of data to look at to see passenger flows, not just a quick look in Halesowen Bus Station like Trident 4194.

This is a genuine question related to the above data analysis. Do NX actively monitor whether their drivers always record every passenger journey made, paeticularly those using day tickets or passes? I know it must be easier now to ensure this with the new scanners but I have been on plenty of NXWM buses in the past where the drivers have not inputted any data to record a pass getting on, hence it would seem like there were less passengers using the bus than there actually was. On one journey I remember in particular, the driver between Harborne and Town the Driver sold 4 cash tickets but did not record a single pass getting on - a further 15 people (I was sat at the front so could see this) - therefore the data would show only 4 people used the bus when actually 19 had?

[Tony]

This is a genuine question related to the above data analysis. Do NX actively monitor whether their drivers always record every passenger journey made, paeticularly those using day tickets or passes? I know it must be easier now to ensure this with the new scanners but I have been on plenty of NXWM buses in the past where the drivers have not inputted any data to record a pass getting on, hence it would seem like there were less passengers using the bus than there actually was. On one journey I remember in particular, the driver between Harborne and Town the Driver sold 4 cash tickets but did not record a single pass getting on - a further 15 people (I was sat at the front so could see this) - therefore the data would show only 4 people used the bus when actually 19 had?

Yes, drivers not recording passes stand out like a sore thumb on the data

[Trident 4194]

This is a genuine question related to the above data analysis. Do NX actively monitor whether their drivers always record every passenger journey made, paeticularly those using day tickets or passes? I know it must be easier now to ensure this with the new scanners but I have been on plenty of NXWM buses in the past where the drivers have not inputted any data to record a pass getting on, hence it would seem like there were less passengers using the bus than there actually was. On one journey I remember in particular, the driver between Harborne and Town the Driver sold 4 cash tickets but did not record a single pass getting on - a further 15 people (I was sat at the front so could see this) - therefore the data would show only 4 people used the bus when actually 19 had?

Or to the other extreme where they just spam the machine..

[winston]

This is a genuine question related to the above data analysis. Do NX actively monitor whether their drivers always record every passenger journey made, paeticularly those using day tickets or passes? I know it must be easier now to ensure this with the new scanners but I have been on plenty of NXWM buses in the past where the drivers have not inputted any data to record a pass getting on, hence it would seem like there were less passengers using the bus than there actually was. On one journey I remember in particular, the driver between Harborne and Town the Driver sold 4 cash tickets but did not record a single pass getting on - a further 15 people (I was sat at the front so could see this) - therefore the data would show only 4 people used the bus when actually 19 had?

Also, surely the data would only show where passngers got on, not where they're getting off.

[j789]

Yes, drivers not recording passes stand out like a sore thumb on the data

Thank you, that is good to know, I know they are quite hot on this now at First too.