Issues 4/4H/4M

[PB50]

I live in Caldmore Road, Walsall and I have noticed a big difference in the amount of buses running now since the changes took place. Seems less buses especially Diamond ones. I can understand why buses get crowded if there are less out on the route.

[Westy]

I live in Caldmore Road, Walsall and I have noticed a big difference in the amount of buses running now since the changes took place. Seems less buses especially Diamond ones. I can understand why buses get crowded if there are less out on the route.

The same happened with the 31/32.

Peak time, every bus that turns up is rammed, instead of everyone piling onto the Nx & leaving the Diamonds quieter, lets say.

The question I will ask is, since the indivdual operator tickets were discontinued, but before the partnership started, did passengers start to 'spread out' between the 2 operators on the 4 group?

[Ash]

It will be interesting if the reliability of the vehicles used on the 4 is affecting the service. 1857 has just broken down on the 4, leaving a gap in the service with a well loaded e200 being the next vehicle to arrive.

[Westy]

It will be interesting if the reliability of the vehicles used on the 4 is affecting the service. 1857 has just broken down on the 4, leaving a gap in the service with a well loaded e200 being the next vehicle to arrive.

Scanias are one of the next types to go, I gather.

[Stu]

I live in Caldmore Road, Walsall and I have noticed a big difference in the amount of buses running now since the changes took place. Seems less buses especially Diamond ones. I can understand why buses get crowded if there are less out on the route.

It is my understanding that prior to the changes, between NX and Diamond the 4s were 'overbussed' with the two operators competing against each other.

I'm assuming that the combined timetable was drawn up to take into account passenger loading data vs vehicle capacity.

Yes, it is true that there are fewer buses in operation now - which helps both operators reduce operating costs - but in theory the co-ordinated timetable should ensure that there is enough capacity to cope with the loadings. Plus the fact that passengers can use nBus tickets/passes on either operators' services now.

Of course, theory does not always work in reality, and I've seen comments elsewhere about issues with the 4s due to roadworks, which inevitably causes delays which leads to crowded buses.

[Wba_lad]

856 should of left Walsall on the 19:32 4 to Blackheath, did it, no. Instead driver was just sitting there as if he's got all the time in the world.

[Steve3229vp]

856 should of left Walsall on the 19:32 4 to Blackheath, did it, no. Instead driver was just sitting there as if he's got all the time in the world.

There could be a fault with the bus

[Wba_lad]

There could be a fault with the bus

There could have been but he could have let all the passengers know who was all waiting in the stop. 

[karl724223]

There could have been but he could have let all the passengers know who was all waiting in the stop.

Conflict avoidance 😁

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

There could have been but he could have let all the passengers know who was all waiting in the stop.

I think that is for an Inspector or Supervisor to say. The times I have been told when the 79 at Wolverhampton broke down was by an Inspector who told us to get the 79 behind

[Rachvince53]

The only time the 4 has had Doubles was during Covid there were photos of 44×× on loan to WA and I think some went to WN 46×× 45×× and Platniums on the 4 only I'm not sure if they did go on the 4H or 4M but you can't ignore company advice to go under a low bridge even if Buses are exempt

While it's generally true that the current 4 group are operated by single decks, in the days of the 404 in the 90s, Metrobuses were used on the route. I can clearly remember the sign at Sandwell Station lighting up stating that the bus was over the safe height.  

[Lukeee]

856 should of left Walsall on the 19:32 4 to Blackheath, did it, no. Instead driver was just sitting there as if he's got all the time in the world.

No relief maybe? 

[winston]

The 404 has traditionally been single decker, as I said the combined frequency hasn't changed much at all over the years so I'm not sure what you're supposed to be saying? Either way back when the Scania's were new the combined frequency is every 6 minutes and that's been the case for many years...

If the service was in need of being even more frequent I'm sure they would have done this quite some time ago.

Whilst the combined frequency over common sections of the route hasn't changed drastically, since TfWM recast the timetable to rationalise Diamond & NXWM services, the Diamond Pvr has dropped by -5 & IIRC NXWM's was similar at -5 or -6, so the 4 / 4H & 4M now see's at least 10 buses less.

The 4H has has seen the biggest reduction in frequency, down from 7 bph to 3 bph. Also Diamond now follow the NX route around Hayley Green / Hasbury, whereas Diamond 4H route which served all of the Hagley Road, part of this is no longer served by the 4H.

Thus gaps in services & bunching of buses is now far more noticeable.

[don]

Whilst the combined frequency over common sections of the route hasn't changed drastically, since TfWM recast the timetable to rationalise Diamond & NXWM services, the Diamond Pvr has dropped by -5 & IIRC NXWM's was similar at -5 or -6, so the 4 / 4H & 4M now see's at least 10 buses less.

The 4H has has seen the biggest reduction in frequency, down from 7 bph to 3 bph. Also Diamond now follow the NX route around Hayley Green / Hasbury, whereas Diamond 4H route which served all of the Hagley Road, part of this is no longer served by the 4H.

Thus gaps in services & bunching of buses is now far more noticeable.

Thank you @winston - that's quite a significant reduction - in the scenario that Diamond does not operate that's even more significant.

I know TfWM's aim was to eliminate wasteful competition (in terms of resources, which could be allocated elsewhere to overcome shortages), given the tendency for passenger numbers to continue to increase towards pre-Covid levels in many areas, it would appear TfWM may need to reconsider the timetable to try and iron out some of the problems. If the timetable stays as now, then discussion with Sandwell BC and NXWM to try and find a solution at the Parkway bridge in Bromford Lane, along with NXWM biting the bullet re dead bus journeys to/from Walsall garage via Bridgeman St (which they would need to relatively soon anyway even if they plan to operate zero emission single deckers at some stage) then the problems could be alleviated by changing to double deckers - and given NXWM has/will shortly have more than enough double deckers to eliminate the non Euro 6s, then either giving Walsall some electrics or cascading other Euro 6 double deckers there if only Birmingham is allowed to receive new EVs, could happen if solutions could be found.

The difficulties of going EV in terms of infrastructure are obvious, and particularly where the garage situation is fluctuating in Birmingham - however unless there are things we don't know, then Walsall, Wolverhampton and Pensnett surely would be reasonable candidates for phased introduction of EVs along with Birmingham garages like PB, YW etc?

I guess in an ideal world hydrogen would happen at Walsall but the technology and infrastructure support appears several years behind EV so unless NXWM is willing to wait with zero emission at Walsall (with no guarantee hydrogen becomes more than marginally reliable for the foreseeable) then implementing some EV would appear essential.

[BK63 YWP]

Even with ADL 400 EVs, the buses are too tall for Sandwell and Dudley stations rail bridge.