West midlands bus franchising

[Mega Kickdown]

The intention is for the WMCA to own all the vehicles, therefore it would be their responsibility to pay for repaints.

Up until the point that franchising begins, operators can do what they like with their vehicles.
The 'West Midlands Bus' red livery was a 'trial', apart from some NX and Diamond vehicles, the only other operator that uses this is Walsall Community Transport. If TfWM already has such a livery design ready, it makes sense to use and adopt that.

But what you have to remember is that WMCA like to fritter public money away on consultants and agencies, so no doubt a new bus livery design will be sought.

If you look at the West Midlands Bus logo, it is red and dark grey.


Which are not too dissimilar to the colours used by National Express West Midlands.

is this the same in london and manchester where bees and TFL pay for the paints?

[Tony]

is this the same in london and manchester where bees and TFL pay for the paints?

I don't think London pays for repaints. Vehicles are expected to be provided in red and any costs involved in providing the correct vehicles should be taken into consideration in the bid price.

[RW]

Will WMCA actually own the vehicles under the new arrangements as stated in an earlier post? If so what's the incentive for current service providers to purchase any new vehicles in the meantime never mind what 'colour' they will be?

[2206]

I wonder do they intend to acquire vehicles from other operators like Rotala, etc or just NX?

I guess services like the 110 & 25A which spend a significant amount of time in the WM area will be included in the scheme. While the likes of the 192/145 which run into the fringes of the area might operate under a permit? Where the 202 would stand in that I don't know?

[Gareth]

I wonder about the basic things like livery. WMB two tone red is ok, or will they do what WMPTE did and go by the largest operator livery. Will grey live on?
What about the name? West Midlands Bus is ok. Or will they pick something stupid like Bee Network?
Bull Network? Rats the size of cats Network?

[Coventrybususer95]

I wonder do they intend to acquire vehicles from other operators like Rotala, etc or just NX?

I guess services like the 110 & 25A which spend a significant amount of time in the WM area will be included in the scheme. While the likes of the 192/145 which run into the fringes of the area might operate under a permit? Where the 202 would stand in that I don't know?

5.8 page 9/10

https://wmca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s25101/Bus%20Franchising%20-%20Outcome%20of%20Public%20Consultation%20and%20Mayoral%20Decision.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawKN-D1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHjq2LUz9Swudm2IWDK5O89bbId1DQ9Lf2ofOKkK1lkyc6Stsn7YvYFnEMVFX_aem_6dvogUVXIHzzND89_9tx5A
It seems TFWM will buy all the buses in the midlands 

[Mega Kickdown]

5.8 page 9/10

https://wmca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s25101/Bus%20Franchising%20-%20Outcome%20of%20Public%20Consultation%20and%20Mayoral%20Decision.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawKN-D1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHjq2LUz9Swudm2IWDK5O89bbId1DQ9Lf2ofOKkK1lkyc6Stsn7YvYFnEMVFX_aem_6dvogUVXIHzzND89_9tx5A
It seems TFWM will buy all the buses in the midlands

if they own them they will pay for the repaints and i can presume the buses will be loaned to the winning operator, same for the garages. seems different to London where the buses are owned by the company meaning if they lose a contract they can transfer the buses somwhere else

https://www.wigantoday.net/news/transport/multi-million-pound-cost-of-revamp-of-bee-network-buses-revealed-under-freedom-of-information-request-4588607

according to the link in manchester the buses are still owned by the companies but Bees decided to pay for the inital repaints, i doubt that will happen in the future however.

[Wumpty]

if they own them they will pay for the repaints and i can presume the buses will be loaned to the winning operator, same for the garages. seems different to London where the buses are owned by the company meaning if they lose a contract they can transfer the buses somwhere else

https://www.wigantoday.net/news/transport/multi-million-pound-cost-of-revamp-of-bee-network-buses-revealed-under-freedom-of-information-request-4588607

according to the link in manchester the buses are still owned by the companies but Bees decided to pay for the inital repaints, i doubt that will happen in the future however.

If the operating companies owned the buses at the start of the tender, then these will be retained. The strange situation where Metroline were awarded Bee routes and they've hired vehicles from Stagecoach, and not TfGM, to cover routes (you'll see some Stagecoach liveried buses with Bee vinyls running on these Metroline routes!).

[Wumpty]

5.8 page 9/10

https://wmca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s25101/Bus%20Franchising%20-%20Outcome%20of%20Public%20Consultation%20and%20Mayoral%20Decision.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawKN-D1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHjq2LUz9Swudm2IWDK5O89bbId1DQ9Lf2ofOKkK1lkyc6Stsn7YvYFnEMVFX_aem_6dvogUVXIHzzND89_9tx5A
It seems TFWM will buy all the buses in the midlands

Zero emissions fleets (electrics etc) will be acquired and novated under a new lease.

They will look to purchase the diesel fleets at a cost of £77m, and that recurring statement, "........purchased and funded by borrowing".

The acquisition of the zero emissions fleets won't need any additional outlay as it will be covered by fares income as at present. What concerns me is the additional £77m borrowing for the diesel fleets, and the assumption that these will be replaced by zero emissions vehicles over time. I'm no mathematician, but I'm sure that will mean a steep hike in fares year-on-year to cover this expense.

[Mega Kickdown]

If the operating companies owned the buses at the start of the tender, then these will be retained. The strange situation where Metroline were awarded Bee routes and they've hired vehicles from Stagecoach, and not TfGM, to cover routes (you'll see some Stagecoach liveried buses with Bee vinyls running on these Metroline routes!).

just read the link.and it says parkers gang will own the buses

does this mean if stagecoach won the WB 5 and 80 in the contract they would end up with B7TLs that are loaned to them, they cant use them elsewhere or transfer them and they could lose the buses if they lose the contract.

doesnt sound friendly to new start ups..

[Mega Kickdown]

if anyone says franchising is better:

"blue bus gets stuck in the same traffic as red bus"

there is not much simpler u could get

[Wumpty]

just read the link.and it says parkers gang will own the buses

does this mean if stagecoach won the WB 5 and 80 in the contract they would end up with B7TLs that are loaned to them, they cant use them elsewhere or transfer them and they could lose the buses if they lose the contract.

doesnt sound friendly to new start ups..

Like London and Manchester, and existing TfWM tenders, each tender will specify the bus type required for that route.


If Stagecoach won whatever the existing WB5 looked like (or any other route), they could use their own zero emission buses (though doubt they'd have spares to cascade from other SC areas), or the local authority would sub lease the buses to them to run the route.

More likely, if it was a Euro 6 route, then SC could use their own (which I'm sure they'd have enough on reserve fleet to cover), though there would be a caveat stating buses must be in the franchise livery (whatever that looks loke) by a certain date, or the local authority could lease buses to them.

[Coventrybususer95]

I noticed stagecoach are keeping there coventry routes until 2030 not quite sure how that's fair on all the other companies that will lose routes when they plan coventry to be franchised in 2027

[BBS]

I noticed stagecoach are keeping there coventry routes until 2030 not quite sure how that's fair on all the other companies that will lose routes when they plan coventry to be franchised in 2027

Aren't those routes Stagecoach have are not regional services? Only the 51,7C and the Solihull routes are the ones they operate from West Midlands to West Midlands 

[BN]

If the operating companies owned the buses at the start of the tender, then these will be retained. The strange situation where Metroline were awarded Bee routes and they've hired vehicles from Stagecoach, and not TfGM, to cover routes (you'll see some Stagecoach liveried buses with Bee vinyls running on these Metroline routes!).

Not quite, they form part of TfGM RV fleet, they are not hired. Purely due to the chargers not being ready for the BZL's. Ashton will go fully electric and the ex GNW B9's will be phased out.