West midlands bus franchising

[Stu]

OK, so I've gone through the agenda pack documents, and I've provided a summary of the public responses to the consultation, as well as a couple of demographics of interest.

The results are in: West Midlands set for bus franchising
https://wmbu.org.uk/2025/05/the-results-are-in-west-midlands-set-for-bus-franchising/


The thing is though, that many of the concerns that were raised by respondents won't be immediately solved by franchising alone.

With regards to bus service punctuality, reliability and journey times, franchising won't solve this, because franchised buses will still get caught up in traffic congestion and end up being delayed.

With regards to private companies putting 'profits before passengers', franchising means that private companies are contracted to run bus services, at a price that covers their operating costs and allows a profit margin, even if the buses run around empty.

With regards to anti-social behaviour and 'feeling unsafe', franchising won't stop undesirables from fare-dodging, smoking or playing loud music.

And as for the 'paradox' of wanting cheaper bus fares, as well as improved bus services, well I'm afraid you can't have both!

[The Transport Youtuber]

OK, so I've gone through the agenda pack documents, and I've provided a summary of the public responses to the consultation, as well as a couple of demographics of interest.

The results are in: West Midlands set for bus franchising
https://wmbu.org.uk/2025/05/the-results-are-in-west-midlands-set-for-bus-franchising/


The thing is though, that many of the concerns that were raised by respondents won't be immediately solved by franchising alone.

With regards to bus service punctuality, reliability and journey times, franchising won't solve this, because franchised buses will still get caught up in traffic congestion and end up being delayed.

With regards to private companies putting 'profits before passengers', franchising means that private companies are contracted to run bus services, at a price that covers their operating costs and allows a profit margin, even if the buses run around empty.

With regards to anti-social behaviour and 'feeling unsafe', franchising won't stop undesirables from fare-dodging, smoking or playing loud music.

And as for the 'paradox' of wanting cheaper bus fares, as well as improved bus services, well I'm afraid you can't have both!

i feel like franchising supporters have been manipulating into believing that it will improve the buses it wont

as you said the top concerns had nothing to do with franchising

if people were told the truth that franchising the network would be a burden of taxpayers money responses would be different esp when council tax had recently been increased

on the railways contracts arent always given under the condition that services must improve otherwise operators like crosscountry wouldnt exist! people complain abt the exact same stuff on the franchised railways then the buses.

i doubt making the route 11 a circle again is the best idea as well unlike wt the same guy whose responsible for franchising says

[Zeddan]

OK, so I've gone through the agenda pack documents, and I've provided a summary of the public responses to the consultation, as well as a couple of demographics of interest.

The results are in: West Midlands set for bus franchising
https://wmbu.org.uk/2025/05/the-results-are-in-west-midlands-set-for-bus-franchising/


The thing is though, that many of the concerns that were raised by respondents won't be immediately solved by franchising alone.

With regards to bus service punctuality, reliability and journey times, franchising won't solve this, because franchised buses will still get caught up in traffic congestion and end up being delayed.

With regards to private companies putting 'profits before passengers', franchising means that private companies are contracted to run bus services, at a price that covers their operating costs and allows a profit margin, even if the buses run around empty.

With regards to anti-social behaviour and 'feeling unsafe', franchising won't stop undesirables from fare-dodging, smoking or playing loud music.

And as for the 'paradox' of wanting cheaper bus fares, as well as improved bus services, well I'm afraid you can't have both!

Might be an extremely controversial take, but I actually think it would be beneficial to scrap timetables altogether. Instead, retain journey starting times for hidden running boards and then just let the buses do the routes without time pressure. At as many stops as possible, have live maps showing where the buses are and an ETA to the stop, alongside those graphics for a rough journey time to various key stops. Idk if it would be possible legally, but promotion of sites like bustimes would also do well. I know so many people that get fed up when a bus hasn't turned up in 5 minutes but I can see clearly on the map it's been stuck in traffic, *cough* Clay Lane. This will probably not happen of course I just think franchising could bring about more possibilities for reducing the constant timetable reliability complaints because I'm certain 90% of those that do complain all the time, even to driver's faces, don't ever have to experience the awful West Midlands traffic themselves. 😅

[Lukeee]

Might be an extremely controversial take, but I actually think it would be beneficial to scrap timetables altogether. Instead, retain journey starting times for hidden running boards and then just let the buses do the routes without time pressure. At as many stops as possible, have live maps showing where the buses are and an ETA to the stop, alongside those graphics for a rough journey time to various key stops. Idk if it would be possible legally, but promotion of sites like bustimes would also do well. I know so many people that get fed up when a bus hasn't turned up in 5 minutes but I can see clearly on the map it's been stuck in traffic, *cough* Clay Lane. This will probably not happen of course I just think franchising could bring about more possibilities for reducing the constant timetable reliability complaints because I'm certain 90% of those that do complain all the time, even to driver's faces, don't ever have to experience the awful West Midlands traffic themselves. 😅

On high frequency routes in the daytime this could work, but for example take the 96 that only runs every 30 mins on the day, you would still need a timetable displayed as no one will want to wait 30mins due to not knowing when the bus is due.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

You would still need a timetable for maybe short journeys or maybe multiple buses down to different destinations or the same but longer routes. So say you had to be in Solihull for 13:30 and you saw a bus at say 13:00 to Solihull you would get on it but say it took 30 minutes but the one behind at 13:05 only takes 20 your going to be Late if you get the 1pm but it you get the one at 13:05 you will be early/on time. Timetables do more than just tell you the times they give you an estimation of how long the bus should take to get timing points. It isn't always accurate the first 79 of the day takes 40 minutes from Wolverhampton to West Bromwich in theory during a regular Saturday or weekday this takes between 55minutes-1hr. You would also need it on Evenings especially if Routes are operated by another operator or aren't as frequent and On Sundays. Yes RTI does update for the Sundays and Bank Holiday and other operators but if your bus stop doesn't have that then you wouldn't know. My mate wanted to meet up today in Walsall and he knew yesterday was Sunday service but didn't know today was til I told him. So you can't really remove timetables, plus OAP's are those who aren't great with tech rely on them as they don't have a phone or know how to get the digital timetables and tracking, many actually think the RTI is. 

The amount of times I've had to tell some of them at Darlaston that there bus must be late as it has disappeared of the RTI and that it will still turn up, just because it has disappeared doesn't mean the bus won't turn up, it usually turns up 1 or 2 minutes later. 

I think what they could do is edit the RTI sort of like how they would for a train and maybe send a message down the bottom of the display, which ik for example af Darlaston they used to tell passengers of the 79 that the Midland Metro was down. So what they could do is have 79 West Bromwich 13:30 then refresh 79 West Bromwich ETA 13:36 with a message down the bottom 
Saying National Express Service 79's will be delayed due to Roadworks on Bilston Road National Express apologises for any inconvenience caused passengers are advised to maybe get an eairler service than usual. It could also list a diversion or service alterations, that would be useful and then for example another passenger could tell an OAP that yeah sorry it looks like the 79 is delayed looks like there is roadworks on it's Route. 

[BBS]

I do agree slightly with @Mega Kickdown , franchise is just a way for TFWM to drop the national express control, and to fool the people that their buses will show up on time. I'm certain almost everybody here knows Birmingham and how terrible parking situations alongside football matches and roadworks can cause in this city. You also need to consider daily life situations such as antisocial passengers, fare avoiders, bus vandalises. Many things, but people are more demanding than understanding, hence why how this franchise imo has been allowed. 

[Wumpty]

I do agree slightly with @Mega Kickdown , franchise is just a way for TFWM to drop the national express control, and to fool the people that their buses will show up on time. I'm certain almost everybody here knows Birmingham and how terrible parking situations alongside football matches and roadworks can cause in this city. You also need to consider daily life situations such as antisocial passengers, fare avoiders, bus vandalises. Many things, but people are more demanding than understanding, hence why how this franchise imo has been allowed.

In principle, I get your point, though I've never like the "National Express control" stance - NXWM and it's predecessors have built a bus network through (mainly) sound business principles, investment and improvement. 

Every business has the opportunity to grow and thrive in a competitive marketplace - Rotala are an example of this by mergers, acquisitions and building on a brand. Do WMCA REALLY think that by franchising that their "control" will improve what is already offered? Personally, it won't as they are a great white shark with no teeth - sure they'll set the routes, fares and manage the tenders, but will they really have the teeth to see it through?

Nah.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

In principle, I get your point, though I've never like the "National Express control" stance - NXWM and it's predecessors have built a bus network through (mainly) sound business principles, investment and improvement.

Every business has the opportunity to grow and thrive in a competitive marketplace - Rotala are an example of this by mergers, acquisitions and building on a brand. Do WMCA REALLY think that by franchising that their "control" will improve what is already offered? Personally, it won't as they are a great white shark with no teeth - sure they'll set the routes, fares and manage the tenders, but will they really have the teeth to see it through?

Nah.

No they won't, but to the public who will be able to see a TFWM Livery they won't know If NXWM, Rotala or Stagecoach are operating that route and that's what Parker and WMCA want they want the ordinary public to think oh this is a different Livery like say Manchester it must be a new bus operator, get on pay the money and not think anything of it and think the Mayor said he would improve Bus travel this bus was on time, clean and tidy, I'll ride it again or I like this mayor if there politically minded I'll vote for him again. Really that bus could be an NXWM bus in a different frock that was running on time as it does 95 percent of Time.

Parker wants you to think that the current model doesn't work as does the wider Labour Government, what people should realise but don't is think of how frequent buses are in the Birmingham and Black Country Area, think about how many routes can take you to either the same place or different places, think about how far you can go on an NX Daysaver that wasn't done overnight that was done through investment, if people were to compare buses being Franchised to nationalisation of the Railways and Beeching ie the cutting of services that now 60 years later we realise actually a train station in King's Heath and Darlaston makes sense then they wouldn't be allowed to do it. Part of the reason Parker got in to was people had had enough of the Tories, I feel bad for Andy Street who was doing a decent job, and as a West Brom fan he played a part in helping us with our bad Chinese owners but in terms of Transport whilst I don't agree Trams needed to go everywhere, he realised buses needed support after Covid but kept fares low to Try and prompt people to look at the bus as a cheap way of getting around, he wanted to improve bus priority measures, I believe he was planning to do something about it had he been reelected having spoken to operators who told him that they felt it was an issue. He didn't propose daft service reductions and joining up the outer circle again something that can't happen easily. He introduced Partnership routes with the two big operators NX and Rotala and was gonna expand on it but then Covid happened that helped make corridors such as the 31/32 in Walsall easier to travel. But he was a victim of people wanting the Tories out. In hindsight had he stayed I feel buses would be growing now and NX especially wouldn't be in this mess of do they risk investing in thete plans to have Electric Buses in most garages, do they risk trying to use more expensive paint and keeping Hertiage fleets and liveries if by 2027/28 they will lose the majority of there income. Had Street stayed those ideas plus routes staying or being increased would have happened.

What we are seeing is operators especially NX as that who Parker seems to attack feel a bit nervous as they don't know what will happen in a few years. Parker has caused chaos wither he meant to or not this shake up has left operators insecure and he is now using this to his advantage, he much like Most people's perception of Labour at the minute is absolutely Clueless and he will not have two terms like Street, hopefully Street reruns and the Tories can gain some creditabilty back by then that if he does decide to run he will be voted back in and can go fix and undo Parker's mess

[Stu]

So, it's official then...

Revolution in region's bus services promised after Mayor signs order to take back control
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/revolution-in-region-s-bus-services-promised-after-mayor-signs-order-to-take-back-control/

On a side note, it looks like this means that the first Sprint route won't be in operation until late 2027, only five years late (it was meant to be completed before the 2022 Commonwealth Games!)

The Mayor said: "For too long, our buses have been run for private profits, not public good. Today, that changes.

My understanding is that in a franchised network, private operators are awarded contracts and the contract price allows a profit margin to be made. So essentially with the revenue risk taken away from the operator, private companies are running bus services and making profit even if the buses run around empty?

"The work is now underway, and over the next two years we'll create a bus network that puts passengers first - reliable, affordable and run in the interests of the people that use them."

As I've stated elsewhere, there will now need to be a second consultation, this time asking passengers about the services they use and how they would like to see them change.

WMCA/TfWM will have access to ticketing data from operators, which will show them the routes that 'work' and will bring in the most revenue, but what this data won't tell them are the 'missed opportunities' - journeys that aren't being made, for whatever reason, whether that is because a particular bus service doesn't go where passengers want to go, or doesn't run at the right times, etc etc.

I have nightmares about TfWM running passenger loading and ticketing data through some "AI-powered" software tool, and using that to 'create a bus network', which ends up being a disjointed mess, with mismatched timetables that no-one can understand.

If they're serious about a bus network 'run in the interests of the people that use it', then they need to consult more widely with the public.

[wembley86]

Surely nationalising the buses is not new wasn't this the start of National Bus Company back in the mid/late 60's with parts of the BMMO brand become WMPTE buses.

[Tony]

Surely nationalising the buses is not new wasn't this the start of National Bus Company back in the mid/late 60's with parts of the BMMO brand become WMPTE buses.

This isn't Nationalising though is it?

The buses are still run by private PLCs

[cardew]

" The first public controlled services, which are likely to include a non-stop Sprint service from Walsall to Solihull via Birmingham city centre, are expected to start rolling out in late 2027, with the whole process finished during 2029"


Non-stop! They can't even proof read. Note that 2027 mentions Solihull and not the Airport. 

I remain highly sceptical of the whole thing but I guess we move on.

[Straightlines]

Whilst few tears will be shed for the impending demise of NXWM, I am not sure the work-shy bureaucrats at Summer Drain have quite yet realised what they have signed up for... 

[j789]

If Labour's attempt to run Birmingham City Council is anything to go by, the week after Sprint is finally opened (no doubt massively over budget and delayed), the drivers will be out on strike and no vehicles will run anyway.

There was an article on this on the E&S Facebook page and it was very interesting reading the 100+ comments directed towards Mr Parker - perhaps 2 of them had something positive to say about him.

As he is keen to base his assumptions of what the West Mids wants on such a low number of responses to the franchising debate, I'll do likewise and summarise from the above comments that he is most definitely not wanted as our mayor. If only that mayoral election hadn't been last year!!!

[BBS]

Whilst few tears will be shed for the impending demise of NXWM, I am not sure the work-shy bureaucrats at Summer Drain have quite yet realised what they have signed up for...

And don't forget the people that voted for the franchise using the excuse "the buses don't show up on time"