West midlands bus franchising

[Stu]

Some more:

(S1) There are several challenges facing the West Midlands Bus Network which means that it is not performing as well as it could. Do you have any comments on this?

If you made it cheaper, more people would use it.

(S4) It is suggested that the Proposed Franchising Scheme will offer value for money. Do you have any comments on this?
Unless you keep fares at a reasonable price, creating true value for money it won't work.

Clearly doesn't understand the context of the question!

(S2) Reform is considered to be the right thing to do to address the challenges facing the local bus market. Do you have any comments on this?
Hopefully the buses will be on time and run when they should. Causing less stress and delays.

And doesn't understand 'why' buses don't run on time!

(S2) Reform is considered to be the right thing to do to address the challenges facing the local bus market. Do you have any comments on this?
I believe franchising is the most effective way to see real change. Bus routes MUST improve and fairs MUST be lowered for the bus service to continue operating.

So you want bus services to improve, but you don't want to pay for them?

(S4) It is suggested that the Proposed Franchising Scheme will offer value for money. Do you have any comments on this?
No, this and the last question should be made more assessable. I'm a university student but still need to do research to understand the question. This is unacceptable as it excludes many people from participating

This kind of comment makes me fear about this country's future if our "best and brightest" don't know how to 'do research' by reading through the consultation documents provided!

[Rachvince53]

Those samples of answers indicate how confused people are about who owns and is responsible for what. For example some are under the impression that fares are set by TfWM (which would likely happen under franchising). 

[jasmine]

Just reading through some of the consultation responses again, and I can't believe how ill-informed some people are!
That is simply not true! One-day nNetwork tickets can be bought on bus. And NX and Diamond single/day tickets are the same price!
More ill-informed rubbish, nBus day tickets are valid on ALL bus operators' services.

No idea about what any of the questions are asking, just submit a response anyway!

honestly it seems like the go by nbus ads in i think 2023 were all for nothing if people are spouting out this much information so confidently

[j789]

Those samples of answers indicate how confused people are about who owns and is responsible for what. For example some are under the impression that fares are set by TfWM (which would likely happen under franchising).

The politicians relish such ignorance amongst the public though. It means they can get their idiotic and half-brained schemes through and get the people to believe they will have a better service.

When it all goes t*ts up and local taxes are massively raised to pay for a service no better than the deregulated service was, no doubt Mayor Richey and his ilk will blame the public for asking for change. 

Thick people are politicians ticket to an easy life and a get out of jail free card. When decisions go wrong, just blame the public who voted for them rather than take any responsibility yourself. It's in the 'how to be a  politician' handbook, page 1 paragraph 1!

I see not one comment from any of these cretins in power highlighting how worsening traffic congestion over recent years has made running bus services efficiently near on impossible. That is the reality of course but as usual the idiots with the power don't like acknowledging any actual truth. So let's just blame the current operators 🤬🤬🤬

[Gareth]

The politicians relish such ignorance amongst the public though. 

Yes of course!
'You want all that evil EU money to go straight to the NHS? Vote for Brexit'
'You want to deport all the evil brown people invading us? Vote Tory'
'You want cheap bus fares and on time buses and think NX are evil? Vote for local franchises!'

For too long anything political is about short catchy soundbites and not actual policy or substance.

[cardew]

I see not one comment from any of these cretins in power highlighting how worsening traffic congestion over recent years has made running bus services efficiently near on impossible. 

Absolutely. A point I made in my survey response,  together with bus lane enforcement. I hope my input counts for more than the likes of inaccurate rants about no multi-operator tickets. But I'm not confident.

[Steve3229vp]

The politicians relish such ignorance amongst the public though. It means they can get their idiotic and half-brained schemes through and get the people to believe they will have a better service.

When it all goes t*ts up and local taxes are massively raised to pay for a service no better than the deregulated service was, no doubt Mayor Richey and his ilk will blame the public for asking for change.

Thick people are politicians ticket to an easy life and a get out of jail free card. When decisions go wrong, just blame the public who voted for them rather than take any responsibility yourself. It's in the 'how to be a  politician' handbook, page 1 paragraph 1!

I see not one comment from any of these cretins in power highlighting how worsening traffic congestion over recent years has made running bus services efficiently near on impossible. That is the reality of course but as usual the idiots with the power don't like acknowledging any actual truth. So let's just blame the current operators 🤬🤬🤬

I agree, especially with your point about worsening traffic congestion, the fact is that unless there are serious and I mean serious bus priorities then it will make no difference no matter how the bus service is opertated or how it is operated or who operates it.

[Stu]

Many bus journeys are ridiculously slow. 1 hour + from Dudley to Birmingham is ridiculous for 10 miles.

Revisiting the above comment again. Yes, actually I do think it is pretty ridiculous, but there are several bus routes going between Dudley and Birmingham and the above commenter doesn't point out which route they refer to.

After having a think about this, I distinctly remember a time when the old 120 (now 12) was timetabled to take just under an hour to get from Birmingham city centre to Dudley bus station. No doubt anyone with a collection of old timetable leaflets can back this up.

The route of the 12 hasn't changed substantially since I used to use the 120, but it does take roughly an hour and 15mins now.

The fastest route between Birmingham and Dudley has always been the 126, and I remember when this used to take around 40-45mins. It's pretty much the same route now (apart from not continuing to Wolverhampton), but it seems to take around 50mins now. The 'express' X8 service isn't really any quicker.

If you travel on the 74 or 87, they are longer journeys, and both can get subject to heavy traffic congestion and thus journeys take longer than they are scheduled to.

So what's changed to make bus journeys slower? Traffic congestion is the main one, but equally for the city centre services, changes to road layouts there have made some routings quite convoluted, and despite some bus-priority measures in place, its taking some buses much longer to get in and out of the city centre than it used to.

What many people don't realise is that franchising won't make buses "more reliable" on its own, and WMCA do admit this in their assessment documents. Without more bus priority measures - whatever happened to 'smart junctions' that detect approaching buses and alter the signal sequence to allow them to get through faster? - the franchised bus network will end up just as unreliable, or journeys will take even longer as buses wait at timing points if they're lucky enough to miss congestion points.

[Stu]

Absolutely. A point I made in my survey response,  together with bus lane enforcement. I hope my input counts for more than the likes of inaccurate rants about no multi-operator tickets. But I'm not confident.

Make sure your comment has actually been published and is visible! My contribution is still 'awaiting moderation' nearly two weeks after submitting it!

[Sayeed]

So what's changed to make bus journeys slower? Traffic congestion is the main one, but equally for the city centre services, changes to road layouts there have made some routings quite convoluted, and despite some bus-priority measures in place, its taking some buses much longer to get in and out of the city centre than it used to.

Who knows the mayor will likely to adopt Ken Livingstone idea and introduce Congestion Charge in places like City Centres. Although the idea came from Singapore but it is becoming popular and New York introduced it recently. 

[Stu]

Who knows the mayor will likely to adopt Ken Livingstone idea and introduce Congestion Charge in places like City Centres. Although the idea came from Singapore but it is becoming popular and New York introduced it recently.

Birmingham has already sort of done this though with its 'clean air zone' charge.

[Sayeed]

Birmingham has already sort of done this though with its 'clean air zone' charge.

Yes but Congestion Charge can be used at specific times like at peak hours unlike CAZ. 

[Straightlines]

Birmingham has already sort of done this though with its 'clean air zone' charge.

Don't be silly.

Have you seen the congestion in City Centre on most Saturdays?

It's anything but.

[BBS]

Don't be silly.

Have you seen the congestion in City Centre on most Saturdays?

It's anything but.

Might wanna pack your sleeping bag a kitchen and a toilet while you wait in that traffic 

[Stu]

Just been reading through some of the responses to the consultation here:
https://busreform.commonplace.is/en-GB/contributions/proposal/short-questionnaire

Seems to be a lot of contributions "Pending Moderation", including my own!

You cannot view this attachment.

I contacted TfWM with my concerns about this, and have now had the following response back:


Thank you for sending this over. The unusually high level of moderation is something we have raised with Commonplace.
Just to let you know in case it happens to you on a future consultation, we do have access to all responses. So even if it is held as moderated, it has still been received it just isn't showing publicly.