Strike Action

[j789]

The above poster posting rubbish as usual I see

And how many companies have you been through in the West Mids - odd you didn't stay with each company very long, makes you wonder!

[j789]

And also anyone please name a few examples of 'quality' companies that don't have union recognition to prove what I said is rubbish,I'll wait 👍👍👍

[Lukeee]

I'm a driver who's not a member of a union who's worked for many companies round the West Midlands, does that make me a cowboy driver then or any off the companies I've worked for anymore/less cowboys than NX. 

[MW]

I'm a driver who's not a member of a union who's worked for many companies round the West Midlands, does that make me a cowboy driver then or any off the companies I've worked for anymore/less cowboys than NX.

I am also in the above position. 

Perhaps j789 should consider that there's no warrant for a union if your employer treats you fairly and sensibly. Perhaps the existence of having a recognised union amongst a workforce speaks volumes on the kind of employer such party works for. 

Are you capable of seeing things from another point of view j789?

[Tony]

I'm a driver who's not a member of a union who's worked for many companies round the West Midlands, does that make me a cowboy driver then or any off the companies I've worked for anymore/less cowboys than NX.

I think the difference is if you are not in the union because you feel you are looked after well enough by your employer, or not in the union because your employer won't recognise a union even if you personally joined. It is the second that are generally the cowboys.

[MW]

And also anyone please name a few examples of 'quality' companies that don't have union recognition to prove what I said is rubbish,I'll wait 👍👍👍

Can you name the operators in the West Midlands area that you feel aren't of "quality".

I sense that some members may not wish to disclose their employer.

[j789]

I am also in the above position.

Perhaps j789 should consider that there's no warrant for a union if your employer treats you fairly and sensibly. Perhaps the existence of having a recognised union amongst a workforce speaks volumes on the kind of employer such party works for.

Are you capable of seeing things from another point of view j789?

And you tell me that I speak rubbish! "There's no warrant for a union if your employer treats you fairly and sensibly" is a ridiculously short sighted view!

Being in a union gives you protection from future decisions that may be to the detriment of working conditions and wages. It also guarantees you that there is someone there to support you should you have a grievance against any other member of staff, management or otherwise.  In the example you use, you have NO PROTECTION should someone suddenly take a disliking to you and decide they want you out of the job.

How can you not see that basic fact that the union protects you from that? Say you suddenly got ill and needed regular time off, having no union representation will likely mean that your employer would find a way to get rid of you quickly to save them the hassle. Being in a union gives you protection against this.

What maternity leave rights dies your company or others give female drivers - I bet it is the most basic statutory rights because, let's face it, no company is going to pay extra money to someone if they can avoid it. What about paternity leave? With the union, you can at least rely on them to ensure you have a job to go back too - the alternative without them is you have to fight yourself through the employment court for unfair dismissal. Having the union in your corner takes that hassle away.

I'm sorry if you think I don't see things from your point of view but I know plenty of drivers who have been shafted by these sort of cowboy companies because they didn't toe the line, eg purposefully blocking competitors in, running 1 minute in front of the competition, driving past concession holders to get cash fares, working too many driver hours a fortnight, etc etc. Plenty of West Mids companies did this, fortunately most have folded or gone under now.

In 95% of cases, there is something 'suspicious' when a company won't recognise a union because they know it will be far harder to get away with dodgy practices because they are under more scrutiny. I have  very high standards of what I expect from fellow employees and drivers, the least I'd expect is that they have the self-desire to be protected from abuse and manipulation by being in a union.

More fool you if you think your happy little non-union existence is guaranteed for the rest of your career, find one person who takes a dislike to you and you'll be gone with no one to fight your corner. I don't understand how you can't see that.

[j789]

Can you name the operators in the West Midlands area that you feel aren't of "quality".

I sense that some members may not wish to disclose their employer.

I will name the West Mids employers that I know have union reps and recognition. NX, First, Stagecoach and Arriva.

Now, I believe Rotala also recognise unions in the garages taken over in the North West as the previous owners did and those conditions would have been 'tupe'd over. However, I do not know if the West Mids ops recognise a union. I am guessing no as if it was Unite they would likely be also supporting the industrial action by NX drivers to get bigger wages across the board for themselves too as this would cause even more disruption. I am happy to be corrected here though by any Diamond employee as they may well do.

As for any other companies, I can't see why any employee would have an issue with saying if their company had union representation or not. It adds to the debate and perhaps they can give further reasons why they don't see it as a problem to not have that representation. Otherwise, I think the silence backs up what I am saying here.

[MW]

@j789 

Can you just clarify something? Earlier you posted the following:

It would only be the cow boy type companies who do not recognise a union, and don't give their drivers that protection, whose drivers could possibly run such things.

Do you consider the following operators as "cow boy type companies"?

Johnson's
LandFlight
Endeavour
Ridley's
Kevs 

A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

Thanks

[j789]

@j789

Can you just clarify something? Earlier you posted the following:

It would only be the cow boy type companies who do not recognise a union, and don't give their drivers that protection, whose drivers could possibly run such things.

Do you consider the following operators as "cow boy type companies"?

Johnson's
LandFlight
Endeavour
Ridley's
Kevs

A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

Thanks

Well a 'simple yes or no' answer won't apply here obviously 🙄 

Johnsons, Endeavour and Ridley's operate coaches only so they are a completely different scenario - bus and coach drivers are a completely different type of person, as you should well know. You won't get many coach drivers transferring to bus work that is for sure so you can't apply your argument here - it seems very odd you've included those coach only companies.

Johnson's reputation for quality is well known industry wide hence who can assume when they did have bus stage work their drivers would have also been held to the highest standards as they are with the coaches. It would be very interesting to know exactly how many former Johnson's drivers transferred over to Diamond with the purchase of the bus work. If it wasn't near 100% you can probably argue that shows that Johnson's were great employers and they knew the new company may not be quite the same.

Kev's seem a perfectly good operator - the fact they have never been the sort of operator that ran in competition with others on the same routes speaks volumes. Landflight is the same. However, I'd ask you  at the next round of tendering, if they lost all their Solihull work to another operator, what would happen to your job? Do you have a set contract that guarantees some sort of payoff in the event of being made redundant? First certainly do this as will NX, Stagecoach, etc. What is your pension projection like? Does your company offer any sort of share save options so you can benefit with the companies success? Unions will ensure that pension money cannot be misused as they scrutinise everything - I hope your employer has an equal scrutiny of any company they use for their employees long term financial wellbeing. These sort of contracts are a safety net and prevents drivers having to move jobs to a new company every few years when tendered work changes hands. Im not sure how you can argue against that point.

The cowboy operators most of us really mean are those from the post deregulation era through the 90s and early 2000s. Thankfully most of these have gone now but it doesn't mean there are cases still around today. All I'm advocating is protecting yourself from malicious passenger and company claims. I don't get why you are unable to see the benefits of union membership purely based on this protection if nothing else.

As an aside, despite being a long term union member, I have also posted a number of times on here  showing my dislike of certain union practices and I do think they should be far more willing to compromise in the current NX negotiations for everyone's sake. I am certainly not a mouthpiece for them but really am mystified by your insistence that you are somehow better off at a company with no union representation. Long term you really will not be.

If you want a simple yes or no answer, ask a simple yes or no question!

[Rachvince53]

While I can't answer whether Diamond West Midlands has Union representation,  it is  illegal to come out in a sympathy strike j789 so Diamond drivers would not be permitted to strike in support of NX employees. 

[Simon Dunn]

While I can't answer whether Diamond West Midlands has Union representation,  it is  illegal to come out in a sympathy strike j789 so Diamond drivers would not be permitted to strike in support of NX employees.

Generally Unite are the Union that have a recognition agreement across all our depots.  There are some differences in the North West with Engineers/ Office staff/ having a different Union in place.

I believe this is the same Union as National Express.  We have elected reps at all the Midlands depots and at present, all but one posts are empty.  

I would like to think, as the West Midlands is the original home to our business we are close to our people.  

Some of the reasons listed in this thread for being in a Union are statutory requirement.   So either way, they will receive this benefit.

Union representation/ recognition is a fact of life for large bus garages.  

[dw1308]

As a new deiver currently in the latter stages of my training with NX I am actually nervous with this strike action because to be able to go to my garage on the 20th to finalise the training process and be assigned my duties I will have to cross the picket line. Now I am part of the union and having to cross the picket line to be able to do what I need to do for my career is causing me great concern because of the stigma attached to those who cross. Having been a passenger for many years I can obviously understand the point of view of the travelling public and I sympathise with all those who will be affected. I sincerely hope this dispute can be worked out by the company and the union and a happy medium ground is found for both sides because I'm itching and looking forward to carrying my first load of passengers in service, call me naive or call me stupid for getting into the company with all this going on but for me it's been a life long ambition to become a driver and I'm thrilled that I get the chance to do what I wanted to do since I was a little kid 

[j789]

As a new deiver currently in the latter stages of my training with NX I am actually nervous with this strike action because to be able to go to my garage on the 20th to finalise the training process and be assigned my duties I will have to cross the picket line. Now I am part of the union and having to cross the picket line to be able to do what I need to do for my career is causing me great concern because of the stigma attached to those who cross. Having been a passenger for many years I can obviously understand the point of view of the travelling public and I sympathise with all those who will be affected. I sincerely hope this dispute can be worked out by the company and the union and a happy medium ground is found for both sides because I'm itching and looking forward to carrying my first load of passengers in service, call me naive or call me stupid for getting into the company with all this going on but for me it's been a life long ambition to become a driver and I'm thrilled that I get the chance to do what I wanted to do since I was a little kid

It's a great job 99% of the time, just don't let the 1% wear you down. As for the pickets, the union reps I have worked with have all had a decent amount of common sense and I'm sure your garage rep will be the same. There is no way that them or any of the other drivers would see a new starter like yourself, in this situation, in a bad light. 

Just do your thing and focus on building up your in service confidence. You're certainly going to be thrown in the deep end as will be likely very busy with the minimal service operated, but if you come out the other side ok, as I'm sure you will, you can rest assured that you will be able to cope with anything else the job throws at you!

[Westy]

Generally Unite are the Union that have a recognition agreement across all our depots.  There are some differences in the North West with Engineers/ Office staff/ having a different Union in place.

I believe this is the same Union as National Express.  We have elected reps at all the Midlands depots and at present, all but one posts are empty. 

I would like to think, as the West Midlands is the original home to our business we are close to our people. 

Some of the reasons listed in this thread for being in a Union are statutory requirement.  So either way, they will receive this benefit.

Union representation/ recognition is a fact of life for large bus garages. 

One question.

Are any double deckers coming in temporaily from elsewhere, to increase capacity on your own services?