The decline of Sutton services

[andy41]

The X15 is being included into the running boards covering all these routes as well. NXWM instead of bidding for all the different routes put one combined bid in to cover the X15, 77, 167, 168 & 604 which will all be run by Walsall garage

You couldn't make it up.

Tony I love your website and will always thank you for beginning it but there is a career waiting for you somewhere in PR.

I apologise in advance for the long post incoming, I'm sure it won't be to every one's taste but here goes.

So Sutton Coldfield and Erdington are to have the privilege of paying public money to National Express to cobble together a load of pretty useless and unviable services and timetables that are of little use to anyone and will do nothing to generate extra use of bus services. And they will be operated by Walsall depot. What could possibly go wrong? A traffic maelstrom with parachuted in buses and drivers with no back up when it all inevitably goes tits up, something NX can't even currently deal with when the depot is round the corner. Remember Arriva in Stafford anyone?

But let's remind ourselves of how we got where we are today. 15 years ago I remember getting into a long discussion on here regards the wanton vandalism that NX inflicted on this area with the carving up of the 68A/C. At the time we were told that the service wasn't being withdrawn due to passenger numbers (any fool could see it was viable, having a useful route and practical frequency) but due to 'reliability issues'. The issues? NX had been trying to run the Sutton and Erdington circular route from Lea Hall (sound familiar?) the result being that if or when anything went wrong no bus or driver was anywhere near the situation to put it right. When Lea Hall was finally closed without replacement (a huge mistake that has well and truly bitten them on the arse since, and continues to), and NX set about scattering its work to far flung, unsuitable homes, alas there was no room anywhere for the 68. So off it came.

What did we get? The 115, then the 15A/C, the 111, the 38, the rehash of the 966 and then 96, the 71E and the extension of the X4 to Minworth and then Centro having to reroute fairly useless services like the 167, 168 and 604 into even more useless services just so that places retained 'a bus'.

The irony of course is that all this saved barely any resource from the 68 workings, it was all done to accommodate the NX estate. The resource barely any lower, but the end result spectacularly less commercial and naturally all utterly counterproductive.

Look at how many of those services NX have since removed? Blaming low passenger numbers? Of course they were low! The frequencies and connections offered weren't a shadow of the 68. Cue more chopping and changing of the tenders to pick more abandoned roads up, making them even less efficient and viable.

So once NX had finally disposed of these apologies for the 68, what next? The only service remaining from it all, the 96, was rerouted to target the only sections of the tendered services that actually picked anybody up, as well as also targeting them in Mere Green and also another tendered service in Kingstanding, the 89. These tenders were marginal as it was. What happens to a marginal tender when you remove a few hundred concessions a week from it? You don't need my answer....

So, having thrown the three tendered services into basket case territory and therefore destabilising an independent operator that was already struggling with lower numbers due to COVID, what's their next trick? Goodbye 96!! As I said, you really couldn't make it up.

The Fort, Holly Lane, Penns Lane, swathes of Boldmere and the adjoining parts of Erdington, Minworth and Castle Vale..... some of these areas that previously had a 15 minute frequency service that was actually useful now either have a shadow of it, or in the case of the first two, no NX service atall!!

People in Castle Vale and Minworth can't even get to the Fort. What a joke.

How the commercial folk at NX have managed to make such a complete bugger's muddle out of a viable virtual monopoly absolutely beggars belief. And even what they have left, which isn't much, doesn't do what people need or want it to.

And now we are expected to congratulate them for 'rescuing' the useless set of garbage that has somehow managed to survive on the other side of it now that they have managed to force another operator off the road. As Nan would say, what a f***** liberty!!!

The alarm bells should be ringing for NX. With Diamond settled nicely on the 96 and soon the 94 alongside a lot of existing east Birmingham services and NX's network beginning to look like a heavily retreating fossil, their golden goose, the Travelcard, may start to look very unappealing to folk when you consider the links that are no longer available to them and the constant reliability issues.

I'm all for that.

[2206]

NX had been trying to run the Sutton and Erdington circular route from Lea Hall (sound familiar?) the .

I believe the 68 had been ran from Bordesley and then Perry Barr.

And they will be operated by Walsall depot.

Walsall will probably have more suitably sized vehicles for these routes than Perry Barr to. Might see 8XX.

[andy41]

I believe the 68 had been ran from Bordesley and then Perry Barr.

Correct, 'dumping grounds'

And when Bordesley was needed to pick up more overspill after the Lea Hall axe, it went to PB, and when PB needed to pick Walsall work up due to problems there, the axe fell altogether.

This is exactly my point, viable services removed to accommodate NX's property issues. Not customers.

[andy41]

Walsall will probably have more suitably sized vehicles for these routes than Perry Barr to. Might see 8XX.

This is the wrong way round to decide where you operate bus services from, believe me from experience.

[j789]

You couldn't make it up.

Tony I love your website and will always thank you for beginning it but there is a career waiting for you somewhere in PR.

I apologise in advance for the long post incoming, I'm sure it won't be to every one's taste but here goes.

So Sutton Coldfield and Erdington are to have the privilege of paying public money to National Express to cobble together a load of pretty useless and unviable services and timetables that are of little use to anyone and will do nothing to generate extra use of bus services. And they will be operated by Walsall depot. What could possibly go wrong? A traffic maelstrom with parachuted in buses and drivers with no back up when it all inevitably goes tits up, something NX can't even currently deal with when the depot is round the corner. Remember Arriva in Stafford anyone?

But let's remind ourselves of how we got where we are today. 15 years ago I remember getting into a long discussion on here regards the wanton vandalism that NX inflicted on this area with the carving up of the 68A/C. At the time we were told that the service wasn't being withdrawn due to passenger numbers (any fool could see it was viable, having a useful route and practical frequency) but due to 'reliability issues'. The issues? NX had been trying to run the Sutton and Erdington circular route from Lea Hall (sound familiar?) the result being that if or when anything went wrong no bus or driver was anywhere near the situation to put it right. When Lea Hall was finally closed without replacement (a huge mistake that has well and truly bitten them on the arse since, and continues to), and NX set about scattering its work to far flung, unsuitable homes, alas there was no room anywhere for the 68. So off it came.

What did we get? The 115, then the 15A/C, the 111, the 38, the rehash of the 966 and then 96, the extension of the X4 to Minworth and then Centro having to reroute fairly useless services like the 167, 168 and 604 into even more useless services just so that places retained 'a bus'.

The irony of course is that all this saved barely any resource from the 68 workings, it was all done to accommodate the NX estate. The resource barely any lower, but the end result spectacularly less commercial and naturally all utterly counterproductive.

Look at how many of those services NX have since removed? Blaming low passenger numbers? Of course they were low! The frequencies and connections offered weren't a shadow of the 68. Cue more chopping and changing of the tenders to pick more abandoned roads up, making them even less efficient and viable.

So once NX had finally disposed of these apologies for the 68, what next? The only service remaining from it all, the 96, was rerouted to target the only sections of the tendered services that actually picked anybody up, as well as also targeting them in Mere Green and also another tendered service in Kingstanding, the 89. These tenders were marginal as it was. What happens to a marginal tender when you remove a few hundred concessions a week from it? You don't need my answer....

So, having thrown the three tendered services into basket case territory and therefore destabilising an independent operator that was already struggling with lower numbers due to COVID, what's their next trick? Goodbye 96!! As I said, you really couldn't make it up.

The Fort, Holly Lane, Penns Lane, swathes of Boldmere and the adjoining parts of Erdington, Minworth and Castle Vale..... some of these areas that previously had a 15 minute frequency service that was actually useful now either have a shadow of it, or in the case of the first two, no NX service atall!!

People in Castle Vale and Minworth can't even get to the Fort. What a joke.

How the commercial folk at NX have managed to make such a complete bugger's muddle out of a viable virtual monopoly absolutely beggars belief. And even what they have left, which isn't much, doesn't do what people need or want it to.

And now we are expected to congratulate them for 'rescuing' the useless set of garbage that has somehow managed to survive on the other side of it now that they have managed to force another operator off the road. As Nan would say, what a f***** liberty!!!

The alarm bells should be ringing for NX. With Diamond settled nicely on the 96 and soon the 94 alongside a lot of existing east Birmingham services and NX's network beginning to look like a heavily retreating fossil, their golden goose, the Travelcard, may start to look very unappealing to folk when you consider the links that are no longer available to them and the constant reliability issues.

I'm all for that.

First off, I agree that withdrawing the primal 68a/c was a mistake as they provided very useful links and the replacement services were not fit for purpose in comparison.

However, what starts off as a good point quickly descends into your usual anti-NXWM tirade accompanied with a look how good and noble Diamond are.

Let's break some of your ranting down:
Why did no other company 15 years ago step in to replace the 68a/c in full? Diamond, Claribels, Central, etc etc. perhaps because the route wasn't as financial viable as you made out. Did you work for NXWM at that time? Did you have access to that route's financial information?

The transport landscape of 15 years ago is completely different to today, look how few quality transport companies are left in the West Mids - most taken over due to the difficulties presented by operating buses in this new difficult climate. Look at every company in the west Mids in the last 15 years, EVERY ONE has made cut backs (NXWM, Arriva in Cannock, the 116, etc, First around Worcester and the 144 to Birmingham, Diamond in Redditch - compare the current network under almost 8 years of Diamond to 15 years back, big changes - no 146 etc, even Stagecoach has made changes in their operating areas - no company has been immune). You seem to not be grasping this fact that every company has made withdrawals, you just want to pick out NXWM without acknowledging it's the same with every operator.

NXWM in retreat??? In your dreams perhaps but not the reality on the trunk routes at all (the ones that make the profit, not the periphery ones!). Have you missed the last 15 years NXWM extending regular services to Cannock, Lichfield, Nuneaton, etc. Trunk Brum routes like 23/24/45/47/50/61/63 etc etc they still provide every 5-6 minute services on core roads - not showing a company in retreat at all, just a company still continuing to be profitable thanks to those routes. As for the Chelmsley services, don't forget Central Connect withdrew off the 97 (was that before or after Rotala ownership I don't remember), Claribels withdrew off the 55 and now Diamond running a 20 minute frequency on the 94 isn't exactly giving passengers many additional options. I'm sure they will let 3 NXWM 94s go past and wait for the Diamond 🤦‍♂️

What about the massive investment in new buses? Coventry going all electric soon, massive increase in quality platinum brand buses in the past 8 years. Where's the equivalent investment elsewhere?

As I said at the start, you mention a valid point to begin with the rest just is not close to the reality. You and your few anti-NXWM mates will of course think it's the gospel truth but please show me anything any other company has done better than NXWM in the West Midlands in recent years. All the little enterprising companies, like Ludlows, North Birmingham Busways etc, have gone and not been replaced with anything as good. How many NEW commercial routes has Diamond started in the last 10 years that don't merely replicate an established route or run as a replacement service? That answer tells you all you need to know about how difficult the current operating situation is and that companies operate within an environment of risk avoidance these days.

[Straightlines]

In the next episode of The decline of Sutton services TfWM has put out a 682A/C as an option to replace some of the existing subsidised bus network from April... I thought multiple digit service numbers were too complicated? 

[Lukeee]

Be interesting to see what gets replaced and how long winded they make this route

[MW]

Be interesting to see what gets replaced and how long winded they make this route

Line of route
From Sutton Coldfield (682A): Lower Parade via Mill Street, Coleshill Street, Trinity Hill, Rectory Road, Bedford Road, Tamworth Road, Lichfield Road, Little Sutton Lane, Little Sutton Road, Weeford Road, Shepherds Pool Road, Little Sutton Road, Mere Green Road, Belwell Lane, Streetly Lane, Thornhill Road, Foley Road
 
  East, Foley Road West, Hazlewood Road, Lowlands Avenue, Blackwood Drive, Bridle Lane, Hundred Acre Road, Aldridge Road, Bakers Lane, Sutton Oak Road, Kingstanding Road, Kings Road, Shady Lane, Dunedin Rd, Templeton Road, Southgate Rd, Oscott School Lane, Old Oscott Hill, Kingstanding Road, Rough Road, Banners Gate Road, Monmouth Drive, Somerville Road, Clifton Road, Park Road (for Sutton Park Town Gate Bus Stop), Park Road (towards Sutton Coldfield), Brassington Avenue, Sutton Coldfield (Lower Parade). [Anti-Clockwise].

84 minute running time.

[2206]

Line of route
From Sutton Coldfield (682A): Lower Parade via Mill Street, Coleshill Street, Trinity Hill, Rectory Road, Bedford Road, Tamworth Road, Lichfield Road, Little Sutton Lane, Little Sutton Road, Weeford Road, Shepherds Pool Road, Little Sutton Road, Mere Green Road, Belwell Lane, Streetly Lane, Thornhill Road, Foley Road
 
  East, Foley Road West, Hazlewood Road, Lowlands Avenue, Blackwood Drive, Bridle Lane, Hundred Acre Road, Aldridge Road, Bakers Lane, Sutton Oak Road, Kingstanding Road, Kings Road, Shady Lane, Dunedin Rd, Templeton Road, Southgate Rd, Oscott School Lane, Old Oscott Hill, Kingstanding Road, Rough Road, Banners Gate Road, Monmouth Drive, Somerville Road, Clifton Road, Park Road (for Sutton Park Town Gate Bus Stop), Park Road (towards Sutton Coldfield), Brassington Avenue, Sutton Coldfield (Lower Parade). [Anti-Clockwise].

84 minute running time.

So that replaces the 78, 604, 96 in Old Oscott? And part of the 77A possibly as it uses somerville road?

It sort of re-joins the old 604 route the other side of Sutton to, Mere Green to Kingstanding. Wonder if Stagecoach will run it?

[MW]

In the next episode of The decline of Sutton services TfWM has put out a 682A/C as an option to replace some of the existing subsidised bus network from April... I thought multiple digit service numbers were too complicated?

The "S" prefix is now available (not that that matters these days), so perhaps an S1/S2 and the 78 renumbered to S3.

[monkeyjoe]

Talking of tenders I see online all the tfwm tenders for works to create these cross city services ie 94/95 ...... 23/24 

[GoldenSquid]

Talking of tenders I see online all the tfwm tenders for works to create these cross city services ie 94/95 ...... 23/24

That's going to be so unreliable.

[monkeyjoe]

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/?ntype=tender

Saw them there 

[Jack D]

Talking of tenders I see online all the tfwm tenders for works to create these cross city services ie 94/95 ...... 23/24

How can I find tenders

[PB2938]

From 16 April 2023 service 604 is to be withdrawn replaced by a new 78A sutton - Mere Green - Streetly - kingstanding circle 90 minute frequency operated by nx replacing diamond 78 and nx 604.

Service 78 will be operated by nx peak times only.

https://bustimes.org/services/78a-sutton-coldfield-kingstanding

Withdrawal.604

https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/859