Driver shortage

[j789]

Replying to Trident4194 from the Landflight thread.

I'm not sure why you think the comment that employers would much prefer drivers with a long term employment record at one company over someone who has had many jobs in a short period of time as NONSENSE???

It is common sense surely. Showing you have been in a job for a long time suggests that you clearly have high driving standards, low accident rates, loyalty and a good work ethic. Things employers want. On the contrary, moving jobs every 6 months suggests either you are very unlucky with employers or that you are regularly being asked to move on from jobs for whatever reason. Not what employers want.

Equally your comment about NXWM and sacking people. You may as well accuse all the big companies of the same thing - but that is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE! Working on a daily basis in a large transport company, drivers are considered the most important aspect of the company as they are the frontline and ultimately being in the profits. I don't understand why you think companies do not value drivers? They do!

Drivers that are dismissed are not gotten rid of on trivial things - unions and employment laws would prevent this happening. No, those drivers will have committed serious misdemeanours, such as using a phone whilst driving or running purposefully early. There is no excuse for those incidents and even the union couldn't really fight your corner then.

The big thing these days is buses with onboard cctv. It is true that it is mainly larger companies that have this in all vehicles so drivers committing offences are much more likely to be seen doing so and the subsequent consequences happening. In the past, many of these offences would likely have been missed and gone unnoticed. Are you suggesting companies like NXWM should just ignore these incidents?

[Steveminor]

So why do so many nx drivers tell me they don't feel valued & they feel like the company is looking for excuses to sack drivers left right & centre. Not saying its true but that's what a lot of nx drivers are saying to me personally.
Regarding driving standards being lower at these "run 3 minutes in front of the competition" operators, well firstly nxwm is as guilty of running in front of others as anyone
Secondly plenty of drivers that have been dismissed for poor driving standards & customer care skills from Claribels have gone to nxwm. With a fleet of coaches valued at upto £1million a piece & with top flight football clubs & blue chip clients I take umbridge at anyone that would suggest there are poor driving standards at Claribels/BIC

[j789]

So why do so many nx drivers tell me they don't feel valued & they feel like the company is looking for excuses to sack drivers left right & centre. Not saying its true but that's what a lot of nx drivers are saying to me personally.
Regarding driving standards being lower at these "run 3 minutes in front of the competition" operators, well firstly nxwm is as guilty of running in front of others as anyone
Secondly plenty of drivers that have been dismissed for poor driving standards & customer care skills from Claribels have gone to nxwm. With a fleet of coaches valued at upto £1million a piece & with top flight football clubs & blue chip clients I take umbridge at anyone that would suggest there are poor driving standards at Claribels/BIC

Nowhere did I mention your specific company!!! However,  in your same comment you say that drivers have been dismissed by Claribels for poor driving standards and yet you then  say there are no poor driving standards at Claribels. That makes no sense! Clearly, all companies have the odd rogue driver who lets the side down but cctv makes it easier to weed these ones out.

From personal experience I know bus driving is not the easiest job to do well with all the external pressures, traffic, passengers, etc. However, during my years in various roles I have found that in the large majority of cases those drivers that moan the loudest about conditions, management and the like are the ones who generally are not providing a good public service anyway. Bus driving requires distinct skills that some people just don't have and the constant moaning by some drivers proves that point.

[MW]

In my experience, I've found that a lot (not all) of NX drivers who've never worked for another company are not very good drivers.

They're used to driving up and down main trunk roads. Straight lines. Put them in Dickens Heath or similar and you'll find there'll be plenty of scrapes on the side of their buses.

None of them seem to have the ability to reverse (again because of lack of experience).

There's terrible drivers everywhere, but to say that NXWM drivers are better than others is not true. Typically, smaller operators drivers tend to have far better manoeuvrability / navigation.

The flip side to that is, the training you receive at Walsall is excellent. You're just not trained to think for yourself as much.

[Trident 4194]

What I'm saying is it doesn't take a genius to work out that those drivers at a smaller independent are more likely to feel valued and stay loyal to their firm especially (purely down to the close knit community they will have). 2900 many times has told us on the forum about the awful treatment and Rotas at nx. So with such poor Working conditions why would you want to work for them? Sure they get paid more than other competitors but is it really worth it? If I went to nx I could be expected to work stupidly unsociable hours (similar to HgV driving) or I could chose the likes of landflight, claribels who run very sociable hours for employees, similar to a day time job I imagine, or even diamond. Driver I know at tividale has been working for 25 years on reincarnations of the 4H and he's never once thought of leaving because he's never expected to work a night time, and has the same Rota week on week providing consistency for him. Also I'm not going to lie the passengers that nx are a dam disgrace to human society some of them. I'm glad the WM bus partnership is ending and I'm sure the diamond drivers are too who have been forced to carry these people. I can't blame nx drivers for leaving when the customers treat them like shît.

[Trident 4194]

In my experience, I've found that a lot (not all) of NX drivers who've never worked for another company are not very good drivers.

They're used to driving up and down main trunk roads. Straight lines. Put them in Dickens Heath or similar and you'll find there'll be plenty of scrapes on the side of their buses.

None of them seem to have the ability to reverse (again because of lack of experience).

There's terrible drivers everywhere, but to say that NXWM drivers are better than others is not true. Typically, smaller operators drivers tend to have far better manoeuvrability / navigation.

The flip side to that is, the training you receive at Walsall is excellent. You're just not trained to think for yourself as much.

I would certainly agree with that. They seem to lack knowledge of the areas they travel through. In my area diamond drivers would be happy to work their way out should be there be an incident round here, whereas nx (unsure if they are instructed too) just sit there and wait for help from control.

[Wumpty]

So why do so many nx drivers tell me they don't feel valued & they feel like the company is looking for excuses to sack drivers left right & centre. Not saying its true but that's what a lot of nx drivers are saying to me personally.

If I had a pound for every time I've heard the old "Many of the rival (insert job role here) have told me that they don't feel valued/aren't happy etc" I'd have retired years ago. If that is true, then THEY have a personal choice to make. Why aren't they leaving and working for other bus companies? Perhaps because they have job security and that it isn't as bad as they're making out? I've always lived by "If I don't like the job, then leave".

Secondly plenty of drivers that have been dismissed for poor driving standards & customer care skills from Claribels have gone to nxwm. With a fleet of coaches valued at upto £1million a piece & with top flight football clubs & blue chip clients I take umbridge at anyone that would suggest there are poor driving standards at Claribels/BIC

However,  in your same comment you say that drivers have been dismissed by Claribels for poor driving standards and yet you then  say there are no poor driving standards at Claribels. That makes no sense! Clearly, all companies have the odd rogue driver who lets the side down but cctv makes it easier to weed these ones out.

I was going to pick up on this point but @j789 got in first! Excellent contradiction Steve, though only a fool would suggest that there are no bad apples in their barrel. It doesn't matter if you run a bus company, haulage business or a supermarket, you'll always have a percentage of good and bad. It's a personal mentality that decides whether you are a good/conscientious and/or safe worker - you can train someone to the basic requirements to complete a task or role, but the rest of it is down to them to WANT to do it safely and to the best of their ability.

I'm told that the average cost of a new bus is in the region of £300-400,000 and considerably more for a high spec coach - I'd challenge anyone that regardless of what they're driving, we've ALL (including me) taken that additional chance, driven above the speed limit or gotten frustrated behind a slower driver that turns normally rational humans into irrational drivers. Please take umbridge Steve as I guarantee you that every driver that you have, including yourself is guilty of poor driving at some point to some degree. I hope that the "many nx drivers tell me they don't feel valued" are kicking your door down for a job, then at least one bus company won't have a driver shortage.

[Steveminor]

Its not a contradiction because if you have 5 rotten tomatoes & you get rid of 5 rotten tomatoes  then you don't have any rotten tomatoes. Or am I missing something.

To answer your final point, no we don't have a driver shortage here at the moment.

[j789]

What I'm saying is it doesn't take a genius to work out that those drivers at a smaller independent are more likely to feel valued and stay loyal to their firm especially (purely down to the close knit community they will have). 2900 many times has told us on the forum about the awful treatment and Rotas at nx. So with such poor Working conditions why would you want to work for them? Sure they get paid more than other competitors but is it really worth it? If I went to nx I could be expected to work stupidly unsociable hours (similar to HgV driving) or I could chose the likes of landflight, claribels who run very sociable hours for employees, similar to a day time job I imagine, or even diamond. Driver I know at tividale has been working for 25 years on reincarnations of the 4H and he's never once thought of leaving because he's never expected to work a night time, and has the same Rota week on week providing consistency for him. Also I'm not going to lie the passengers that nx are a dam disgrace to human society some of them. I'm glad the WM bus partnership is ending and I'm sure the diamond drivers are too who have been forced to carry these people. I can't blame nx drivers for leaving when the customers treat them like shît.

It is rather ironic that you are suggesting Diamond or other smaller companies wouldn't want a larger slice of NXWM's passengers!!! I'm pretty sure if you asked their management they would say the complete contrary. There are an element of scumbags as in all things in life but the % of scum to nice passengers is <1% from personal experience. And you're argument is completely flawed too by saying those companies only offer sociable hours for staff - this comes at the detriment of passengers! By that logic if NXWM did the same then there wouldn't be any buses after 7pm on any route (I can imagine your howls of complaint already)  - that is not providing a complete service to passengers. You can argue all you like about 'how good' the little guys are but they aren't the ones providing a 20 hour or more service on most routes.

Any operator who competes on a route but finishes at 6-7pm each night to leave the other operator to provide a service for the evening and night time DOES NOT have the public's interests at heart, it is purely profit driven. Let's not pretend that smaller companies aren't driven by the £ sign just as the larger companies are!

[2206]

It is rather ironic that you are suggesting Diamond or other smaller companies wouldn't want a larger slice of NXWM's passengers!!! I'm pretty sure if you asked their management they would say the complete contrary. There are an element of scumbags as in all things in life but the % of scum to nice passengers is <1% from personal experience. And you're argument is completely flawed too by saying those companies only offer sociable hours for staff - this comes at the detriment of passengers! By that logic if NXWM did the same then there wouldn't be any buses after 7pm on any route (I can imagine your howls of complaint already)  - that is not providing a complete service to passengers. You can argue all you like about 'how good' the little guys are but they aren't the ones providing a 20 hour or more service on most routes.

Any operator who competes on a route but finishes at 6-7pm each night to leave the other operator to provide a service for the evening and night time DOES NOT have the public's interests at heart, it is purely profit driven. Let's not pretend that smaller companies aren't driven by the £ sign just as the larger companies are!

And workers wouldn't be able to get home/to work at night if NX stopped at 6PM everynight.

[Westy]

Wasn't it the case years ago(whether it still is now, I don't know?), that evening & Sunday services were covered by overtime?

[Tony]

Wasn't it the case years ago(whether it still is now, I don't know?), that evening & Sunday services were covered by overtime?

Not evenings with the major companies and not Sundays with Birmingham.

As for the small family firms they can suffer just as badly. Johnsons are currently having to cancel services.

At the moment one of the problems faced by operators is if anyone tests positive for covid they have to have 10 days off even if they feel fine and fit for work, which is different to any other illness,  so even fully staffed small operators could suffer, unless the don't follow the rules and ask staff to work anyway

[j789]

Wasn't it the case years ago(whether it still is now, I don't know?), that evening & Sunday services were covered by overtime?

Plenty of drivers actually like evening and night shifts because on the whole they are quieter and far less traffic. At various times there has been waiting lists to go on late rotas that only do evenings.

Same with Sunday working, it suits some people to get a couple of days off in the week rather than weekends. The problem is if you have a young family it is more difficult to do those shifts and have enough time seeing your kids. There is no perfect solution to it unfortunately as the nature of bus driving demands that drivers work at all times of the day.

The best solution I've seen for full time drivers was using a 4 day rota to cover the normal 39 hours. This did mean longer duties on the days worked but having 3 days off a week suited many drivers and this became a very popular rota. It also gave drivers an extra day to work overtime too so financially benefitted them too. Also, it often led to having 4 or 5 days off in a row, spread over two duty weeks, which was good.

It's obviously not feasible to put everyone on a 4 day rota as it won't suit those who like shorter shifts but I do think it would attract more drivers if they were given this option.

[Stu]

At the moment one of the problems faced by operators is if anyone tests positive for covid they have to have 10 days off even if they feel fine and fit for work, which is different to any other illness,  so even fully staffed small operators could suffer, unless the don't follow the rules and ask staff to work anyway

And equally, anyone who gets 'pinged' by the NHS Test & Trace app, because they have apparently been in contact with someone who has tested 'positive', also has to 'self-isolate' for the same period, or unless at least until they can prove a negative test result.

This so-called "pingdemic" is what is also what has been having an adverse effect causing staff shortages in many industries, due to otherwise perfectly healthy people being forced to take time off as 'sick'.

[bususer28]

I'm sure the diamond drivers are too who have been forced to carry these people.

That's if they bother to pick up the passengers! The number of times I've waited for the hourly midibus services just for them to speed past at faster than I would drive with the car. I know this isn't all drivers but come on.