11A/C to be split up?

[Stuharris 6360]

Have to say, like a number of other people, I am totally confused by all this.

If the route needed changing, then change it, but to continue to use 11A/11C/11E is utter madness.

[Tony]

Have to say, like a number of other people, I am totally confused by all this.

If the route needed changing, then change it, but to continue to use 11A/11C/11E is utter madness.

The route isn't being changed though, just the majority if vehicles won't run the full route. I haven't seen you asking for the Walsall terminators on the X51 to be renumbered.

[metrocity]

Have to say, like a number of other people, I am totally confused by all this.

If the route needed changing, then change it, but to continue to use 11A/11C/11E is utter madness.

It costs around £75 to change a bus stop flag. There are a lot of bus stops on the 11 in both directions !

[metrocity]

The route isn't being changed though, just the majority if vehicles won't run the full route. I haven't seen you asking for the Walsall terminators on the X51 to be renumbered.

How many journeys will still run the full route ?

[2206]

The route isn't being changed though, just the majority if vehicles won't run the full route. I haven't seen you asking for the Walsall terminators on the X51 to be renumbered.

Is it operating as:
1.) Perry Barr - Erdington via Perry Barr as @ellspurs was suggesting
or
2.) Perry Barr to Acocks Green & Erdington to Acocks Green via City Hospital?

Walsall terminators on X51 and Falcon Lodge terminators on the X4 are basically short journeys of the main route, whereas with 2. they'd be separate routes largely.

[Stuharris 6360]

The route isn't being changed though, just the majority if vehicles won't run the full route. I haven't seen you asking for the Walsall terminators on the X51 to be renumbered.

According to the published timetables, no buses will run the complete route.

[Stu]

Theres an overlap.
See it this way 11n 2 sections
Section 1. Bus leaves Acocks green as an 11A running through Yardley Fox & goose Erdington to Perry Barr. It then turns around & does the 11C back to Acocks green.
Meanwhile Another 11A does section 2
It leaves Erdington through Perry barr harborne cotteridge & kings heath to Acocks green. It the turns round & does the 11C back to Erdington.
This gives a terminus point & more important layover recovery time for the buses which should improve reliability

Thanks for that Steve, I too think some people are reading to much into this, and maybe its the way the timetable has been presented that is causing confusion.

From a cursory look at the timetable from TfWM, both the 11A and 11C look like they are still operating as a 'circular', but new 'layover' points have been added at Erdington and Perry Barr.

It might be the case that buses terminate there, and then turn around to go back the other way. Or they just terminate there for a period of time before continuing on their way.

Its been a while since I've travelled on the 11A/C myself, but I know for a period of time this was already happening at Acocks Green, where buses would layover sometimes for up to 10 minutes. On many occasions there would already be another bus just ahead waiting, which 'through passengers' were invited to change onto.

Some people found it an inconvenience, but many didn't really mind.

[2206]

Or they just terminate there for a period of time before continuing on their way.

Its been a while since I've travelled on the 11A/C myself, but I know for a period of time this was already happening at Acocks Green, where buses would layover sometimes for up to 10 minutes. On many occasions there would already be another bus just ahead waiting, which 'through passengers' were invited to change onto.

I can't see any journey on the timetable that is presented as running from Ward End/Stechford/Yardley through to Handsworth from the way its presented, so I don't think they will be running through.
They do layover in Acocks Green as that is basically the terminus, and then they started there next trip but thats not what seems to be suggested as happening here.

The post you quoted seems to suggest it as 2. Perry Barr to Acocks Green & Erdington to Acocks Green via City Hospital

[bususer28]

One quick question about all this: what is the goal- to break up the route to improve reliability or increase the frequency between Erdington and Perry Barr?

[Stu]

According to the published timetables, no buses will run the complete route.

I can't see any journey on the timetable that is presented as running from Ward End/Stechford/Yardley through to Handsworth from the way its presented, so I don't think they will be running through.

If anyone can find a way to present a timetable for a circular service with multiple terminus points in a 'linear' format that isn't confusing, then I'm sure both TfWM and NX Bus would be all ears!

[Stuharris 6360]

If anyone can find a way to present a timetable for a circular service with multiple terminus points in a 'linear' format that isn't confusing, then I'm sure both TfWM and NX Bus would be all ears!

@Stu , the problem is, if it's confusing to us, then how can the gereral public be expected to read it?

[Tony]

@Stu , the problem is, if it's confusing to us, then how can the gereral public be expected to read it?

The outer circle timetable has always been one of the least picked up timetables by the general public due to frequency and unreliability anyway. So everyone will do exactly as they do now and walk to the bus stop and wait. And if this works they will be happy because there will be less big gaps. Of course, the few people wanting to go from Bromford to Handsworth, or through Acocks Green will wonder where their through service has gone, but the vast majority of the passengers won't notice anything has happened. Now of course if the numbers had been changed that would make people notice when no 11s turned up at their stop

[2206]

The outer circle timetable has always been one of the least picked up timetables by the general public due to frequency and unreliability anyway. So everyone will do exactly as they do now and walk to the bus stop and wait. And if this works they will be happy because there will be less big gaps. Of course, the few people wanting to go from Bromford to Handsworth, or through Acocks Green will wonder where their through service has gone, but the vast majority of the passengers won't notice anything has happened. Now of course if the numbers had been changed that would make people notice when no 11s turned up at their stop

So none through Acocks Green as well, quite a few people travelled through from my past experience.
I would still think a change of number would be best in that case. If its no longer a circular keeping the 11A/11C/11E and having 2 routes with the same numbers sounds bizare.
If not one as the 10 or 90 and one as the 11, then you could even just have one route as the 11 in both directions and the other as the 11A, changing the letter instead.

It would hardly be the first time they've changed the numbers such as when longstanding 900/957 were changed to the X1/X2 , 902/904/905 to to X3/X4/X5 and 37 to the 4.

[cardew]

Destination displays including the side ones could show the likes of "Change at Acocks Green for Yardley and beyond". Yes, I know some people don't read them.  it's a pity that a 100% next stop announcement equipped fleet for the 11 is a while away yet!

[monkeyjoe]

So you couldn't do Swan to kings heath for an example? Fair few years since I used it traffic most horrendous these days