New cross-city bus services

[winston]

Considering there's now a 1000 NXWM buses sat in garages untaxed with no work, I doubt NX are concerned with planning new services, they're most likely more concerned with when current services will be back up & running to previous levels & when/if passanger number can return to pre-virus levels before anything else is considered.

[sam791]

I'm sure if some of the big cities in the country can manage to sustain a network of cross-city routes for many, many decades with not a lot of problems - due to how vast the city centre is and the road network (Leeds/Sheffield etc.) I'm sure Birmingham will have nothing to worry about. It just needs to be planned and managed correctly.

Most routes in Sheffield for instance are cross city - https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=5969

[Pat]

I'm sure if some of the big cities in the country can manage to sustain a network of cross-city routes for many, many decades with not a lot of problems - due to how vast the city centre is and the road network (Leeds/Sheffield etc.) I'm sure Birmingham will have nothing to worry about. It just needs to be planned and managed correctly.

Most routes in Sheffield for instance are cross city - https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=5969

Sheffield and Birmingham are two very different cities.  Sheffield is half the size of Birmingham and won't have the level of traffic congestion that Birmingham has, not to mention the difference in population . 

[Ian Hardy]

Leeds & Sheffield's bus routes began as cross-city tram routes and so have just continued to be cross-city. Whereas Birmingham's tram routes were just from the city centre out to the suburbs so any cross-city routes only started when the trams had gone so are not as historic. Also Birmingham is a lot bigger than Leeds & Sheffield.

Birmingham had the huge Colmore Street, New Street and Corporation Street loop which meant that buses would operate as though they were a cross city service e.g. the 37 from Solihull to Solihull via Birmingham city centre.

Leeds and Sheffield did not have such a useful loop so they would have to find somewhere for the buses to layover in the city centre, which they couldn't, so they retained the cross-city routes with the layover at the suburban terminus.

Leeds has an epic inter-worked cross-city group of routes, the 2, 3/3A, 12 & 13/13A which in normal times has a PVR of about 44 buses, see the map on the First Leeds website: https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/2.3.3A.12.13.13A%20Leeds%20Map_0.pdf

A bus starts every 10 minutes at the White Rose Centre as a 3 or 3A via Dewsbury Road, Leeds City Centre, Chapeltown Road to Gledhow (every 20 mins) or Brackenwood (every 20 mins) where it becomes a 13  or 13A via Roundhay Road, City Centre, Belle Isle to Middleton Thorpe Lane, where it becomes a 2 via Dewsbury Road, Leeds City Centre, Chapeltown Road to Roundhay where it changes to a 12 via Roundhay Road, City Center, Belle Isle, Middleton & back to the White Rose Centre where it becomes a 3 or 3A about 4 hours after it left there previously.

Buses also run the other way around the circuit every 10 minutes. It obviously works as the service pattern has been like that since the days of Yorkshire Rider in 1986.  So on each four hour trip each bus crosses the city centre four times: twice northbound and twice southbound. The buses do have some recovery time built into the schedule at White Rose Centre, Gledhow / Brackenwood, Middleton Thorpe Lane & Roundhay as to turn a bus short is a bit like doing in on the Outer Circle route in Birmingham.

[ellspurs]

The Birmingham Mail are reporting that they have started work on the improvements needed for the Druids Heath - Bearwood/Dudley cross city-buses to operate:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/work-begins-major-30-million-19907695

I dunno if this deserves its own thread. I had a look and didn't see one specifically for the upcoming cross-city services.

Edit: Thanks, Stu!

[fleetline6477]

The Birmingham Mail are reporting that they have started work on the improvements needed for the Druids Heath - Bearwood/Dudley cross city-buses to operate:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/work-begins-major-30-million-19907695

I dunno if this deserves its own thread. I had a look and didn't see one specifically for the upcoming cross-city services.

Unless I'm missing something here of all the daft route ideas,  give these new routes 12 - 18 months before they split them again, investment in the road networks and bus priority measures is certainly a good thing.

[Stu]

Apart from the quote from Andy Street, there isn't any other mention of these services being combined into one/two through services.

Also, I think the headline is a bit misleading as I don't think any work has already started (apart from anything that has been done already along those two corridors), and I will be amused to see how the 50, 82 and 87 services will operate if they "skip out the A435 and A457" (will they go along the motorway?  ;D)

At the moment, this is just 'talk', with various people giving nice speeches and statements.

Less talk, more action please!

[Steve3229vp]

Apart from the quote from Andy Street, there isn't any other mention of these services being combined into one/two through services.

Also, I think the headline is a bit misleading as I don't think any work has already started (apart from anything that has been done already along those two corridors), and I will be amused to see how the 50, 82 and 87 services will operate if they "skip out the A435 and A457" (will they go along the motorway?  ;D)

At the moment, this is just 'talk', with various people giving nice speeches and statements.

Less talk, more action please!

I agree, the quote 'skip out the A435 and A457' is a ridiculous one and virtually impossible. Also if they were (I'm not saying they are) to make the 50 cross-city with 82/87 they would have to put in serious major priorities not just a bus gate here and there.

[monkeyjoe]

Maybe the 50 will be operated by helicopters and the chelmsley wood routes get an upgrade

[ellspurs]

Maybe the 50 will be operated by helicopters and the chelmsley wood routes get an upgrade

To be fair, there has been more platinums appearing on the 94 and 55 recently, even some of the newer 2019 model ones.

[Stu]

I agree, the quote 'skip out the A435 and A457' is a ridiculous one and virtually impossible. Also if they were (I'm not saying they are) to make the 50 cross-city with 82/87 they would have to put in serious major priorities not just a bus gate here and there.

While I'm generally onboard with the 'idea' of these cross-city services, and the principle behind them, where I feel the problems are going to come is how to route them smoothly through the city-centre.

Lets face it the road network at present is quite convoluted with its one way systems and, at times, bizarre layouts.

[monkeyjoe]

To be fair, there has been more platinums appearing on the 94 and 55 recently, even some of the newer 2019 model ones.

I was just bantering, left that side of town last year.  I really cannot see where there is room on the 50 corridor to speed things up though?

[Stu]

I was just bantering, left that side of town last year.  I really cannot see where there is room on the 50 corridor to speed things up though?

There are plans to add a new bus lane on Highgate Middleway and a bus gate to allow vehicles to easily enter Moseley Road southbound.

Also, I recall they're looking to introduce more enforced bus lanes on Moseley Road through Balsall Heath. But as I've pointed out before here, there are already bus lanes that are not enforced, and that adds to the congestion as buses have to go around the parked cars and vans.

From my own experience of travelling on the 50, the section through Balsall Heath is the worst part for congestion, once you get to Moseley its generally fine.

[Steve3229vp]

There are plans to add a new bus lane on Highgate Middleway and a bus gate to allow vehicles to easily enter Moseley Road southbound.

Also, I recall they're looking to introduce more enforced bus lanes on Moseley Road through Balsall Heath. But as I've pointed out before here, there are already bus lanes that are not enforced, and that adds to the congestion as buses have to go around the parked cars and vans.

From my own experience of travelling on the 50, the section through Balsall Heath is the worst part for congestion, once you get to Moseley its generally fine.

I use the 50 most days and you are generally correct about what you've stated. I think the only way to ease the congestion in Balsall Heath/Moseley/Kings Heath is when the new railway stations are built.

[monkeyjoe]

Used to use it in the 90s when had a  part time job in kings heath. It was bad then can't imagine what it's like now