A34 and A45 Sprint routes will run 'cross-city'

[winston]

@don - If you look at the Sprint marketing material, they are illustrated as Van Hool artics.

You know, artics from the 2000's that are now coke cans

[don]

@don - If you look at the Sprint marketing material, they are illustrated as Van Hool artics.

You know, artics from the 2000's that are now coke cans

Well I remember that being mentioned a while back, but am a bit surprised to say the least, that's still the proposal!! A lot of standing room then....

[2206]

The 94 and 55 route corridor (which @monkeyjoe refers to) is largely along what used to be the A47 (buses from WH and LH) but A45 really does go due east as well. I agree with @Tony that Bordesley depot is a bit close in to be east Birmingham, but of course Heartlands Hospital (in Bordesley Green but a bit further out) used to be called East Birmingham Hospital - so Bordesley Green is also an east Birmingham corridor (97 route - with old buses.....).

55/94 and 14 corridors serve Ward End, Washwood Heath and Alum Rock.
X1/X2 corridor serves Sheldon and Yardley.
Don't think there is any connection between the A45 corridor and the 14/55/94 and they serve different places and different parts of Birmingham.

[don]

Yeah I agree - in pre motorway Brum (end of the 60s/beginning of the 70s before it was joined up so surprisingly recently) the A45 was the route to the south-east. A47 to the east (Leicester and the East Coast), which is probably how I'm thinking - East Birmingham was historically thought of as Stetchford, Bordesley Green, Tile Cross, Shard End etc and ultimately Chelmsley Wood (although that's never actually been part of Birmingham). 

[winston]

Well I remember that being mentioned a while back, but am a bit surprised to say the least, that's still the proposal!! A lot of standing room then....

@don - If you look at the architects scheme for the new Perry Barr garage if shows marked parking bays for articulated Sprint vehicles.

It's a backwards step even considering artics in my opinion i.e. reduced seating capacity, expensive to buy & maintain, take up too much road/depot space, heavy & not as fuel efficient as double decker's.

[don]

I must say the only problem I ever saw with their use in London was their tendency to block back across major junctions when more than one turned up at a bus stop at the same time, blocking the rolls and ferraris from getting across. Their early deletion was down to a certain politician's whim and electoral promise.

However as you say there are maintenance costs as well.

If we are talking bus priorities at junctions and on bends, they will need more road space.

Is it just me or does that site for the replacement PB look quite difficult to access (other than from straight on to the 11 route) - the ground levels in Wellhead Lane beyond the railway bridge must be quite difficult unless the access is close to the signals at Aston Lane - the footprint also looks smaller than the existing PB.

[Isle of Stroma]

It's a backwards step even considering artics in my opinion i.e. reduced seating capacity, expensive to buy & maintain, take up too much road/depot space, heavy & not as fuel efficient as double decker's.

Careful now, you're turning into me in your old age  ;)

[Stu]

55/94 and 14 corridors serve Ward End, Washwood Heath and Alum Rock.
X1/X2 corridor serves Sheldon and Yardley.
Don't think there is any connection between the A45 corridor and the 14/55/94 and they serve different places and different parts of Birmingham.

I think we're all fully aware of where those routes go, thanks.

I'm more interested in opinions of this new development in the Sprint bus proposal.

Interestingly, the report which is on the Agenda for this board meeting ( ) mentions a number of bus services that are going to benefit from the enhancements that Sprint will bring to bus priority (on page 6). The X1 and X2 aren't mentioned although surely they'd be one of the main benefactors.

Thanks for that link, made an interesting read (once you filter out the waffle and buzzwords).

3. Vehicles and Delivery Agreements
3.1 The region’s commitment to climate change has escalated since the original scheme proposal, and a Climate Emergency has been declared by the WMCA. As a result, the decision has been taken to use zero emission vehicles for the operation of Sprint. This has increased the delivery timescale risk of the scheme due to additional infrastructure required to support zero emission operation.
3.2 The option for the WMCA to part-purchase the vehicles in a grant scheme arrangement (and take on the commercial risk of contracting the service) was discounted in order to reduce the financial risk to the WMCA and remove £12m of cost to the WMCA. Furthermore, a market sounding exercise in 2018 confirmed that the Sprint route could be operated commercially, and an operator has confirmed they are willing to purchase the vehicles with no contribution required from the WMCA. This approach has reduced any ongoing liabilities for the WMCA.

Well, I guess this rules out any smaller operator like Landflight, Banga Buses or Claribels being able to operate Sprint under contract. So Sprint will just end up being a commercial operation. Good news in a way, as the overall cost of the project will be reduced if purchasing vehicles isn't required.

It also sounds like it has already been decided who the operator is going to be, so there obviously isn't going to be any tendering process either.

If it is not National Express West Midlands, I don't know which of the other 'big bus companies' would have the financial resources to be able to invest in this operation.

2.11 Transport for West Midlands are undertaking further work to deliver a park and ride site on the A34 Sprint route in advance of the Commonwealth Games. The location will be near to M6 Junction 7, and we are working with local authority colleagues (including planning officers) and landowner(s) to deliver this. Development and enabling work will be funded as part of the wider Sprint programme.

Finally someone in TfWM is listening to me! This is the first mention of 'park-and-ride' in conjunction with Sprint that I have heard about, and I have raised this in various consultations and surveys in the past.

While I welcome this, I would be interested to know where they plan to build this park-and-ride facility, and how 'near' to the M6 junction it will be.

[Roy]

If you look at the Andy Street 2040 plan for "Metro" and Rail, you will notice that some of the new "Metro" lines are actually the same as proposed Sprint lines.  On the A34 line, there is a stop called "Paddock" with a P&R site with 150 or more parking spaces.

[winston]

Careful now, you're turning into me in your old age  ;)

Never!  :o  ;D

It's just a case of we tried artics 15-20 years ago..... the rest is history or storing our carbonated drinks.

[ellspurs]

Finally someone in TfWM is listening to me! This is the first mention of 'park-and-ride' in conjunction with Sprint that I have heard about, and I have raised this in various consultations and surveys in the past.

While I welcome this, I would be interested to know where they plan to build this park-and-ride facility, and how 'near' to the M6 junction it will be.

There's a nice block of green land just north of J7 next to the Holiday Inn. If they play their cards right, they could even have their own bridge going over the motorway (and avoiding the congestion) to link into it.

[Jack]

There's a nice block of green land just north of J7 next to the Holiday Inn. If they play their cards right, they could even have their own bridge going over the motorway (and avoiding the congestion) to link into it.

And where do you expect the other end of the bridge end at? Something like that not will please people who live on the Whitecrest Estate!

[ellspurs]

And where do you expect the other end of the bridge end at? Something like that not will please people who live on the Whitecrest Estate!

I would suppose they'd take the same attitude that they have towards the Perry Barr flyover.

[Jack]

I would suppose they'd take the same attitude that they have towards the Perry Barr flyover.

Why shouldn't they?
The Perry Barr flyover going will cause the traffic around here to be worse than it already is! Scott Arms is bad enough and it would cause the entire Walsall Road to be slow moving traffic. I do think Sprint is a waste of time, especially when we've got a perfect enough X51 (apart from overcrowding).

In regards to the the bridge over the M6, where's the other end meant to finish? An Estate? A primary school? A field?

[ellspurs]

Why shouldn't they?
The Perry Barr flyover going will cause the traffic around here to be worse than it already is! Scott Arms is bad enough and it would cause the entire Walsall Road to be slow moving traffic. I do think Sprint is a waste of time, especially when we've got a perfect enough X51 (apart from overcrowding).

I meant in regards to the fact that they'll disregard local objections and go through with it regardless.

In regards to the the bridge over the M6, where's the other end meant to finish? An Estate? A primary school? A field?

Wherever pays them the least to not smash it through their community.

A more logical solution would be to have the P&R as an exit off the J7 roundabout, while at the same time sorting out that ridiculous layout so it looks like a normal functioning junction.