11A/11C

[richardjones210368]

I think you misunderstood and apart from the legislation you've mentioned there is far more that is pertinent here. However, apparently, local voters can hold the mayor responsible for the quality of the key road network. Presumably part of the coordination role as it really is just a group of local authority and three local enterprise partnership representatives.

The Mayor has no DIRECT responsibility for the public highway but a key part of the WMCA is to draw up strategies to be carried in partnership with other authorities on matters such as highways for the greater good of the West Midlands, the WMCA is partnership of local stakeholders including members of the LEP's of which I am one.

[don]

Good grief. However the point is that the Mayor is clearly failing in his transport co-ordination duties in terms of congestion on the key local road network where the 11a/11c is concerned (part of transport strategy).

[richardjones210368]

Good grief. However the point is that the Mayor is clearly failing in his transport co-ordination duties in terms of congestion on the key local road network where the 11a/11c is concerned (part of transport strategy).

The Mayors strategy on transport co-ordination in general is available to download on the WMCA website. I am not aware on anything specific to the 11A/11C and it is never mentioned at the meetings I attend I can only conclude no concerns have been raised then about this service.

[don]

You 'political people' do have your heads buried well and truly in the sand don't you!! That's no doubt  because the public haven't a clue how to complain to the strategic authority (as opposed to say Birmingham City Council or the bus operator) - sensible people probably don't complain to the bus operator because they can see the traffic congestion and know it's not the operator's responsibility.

You clearly didn't read @Tony 's post saying the operating time for the whole route has increased by an hour? This is down to traffic congestion - but by all means, put your head in the sand and ignore it!!

[richardjones210368]

You 'political people' do have your heads buried well and truly in the sand don't you!! That's no doubt  because the public haven't a clue how to complain to the strategic authority (as opposed to say Birmingham City Council or the bus operator) - sensible people probably don't complain to the bus operator because they can see the traffic congestion and know it's not the operator's responsibility.

You clearly didn't read @Tony 's post saying the operating time for the whole route has increased by an hour? This is down to traffic congestion - but by all means, put your head in the sand and ignore it!!

What has the current 11A/11C due to do with congestion for the moment it is the responsibility of the operator. There is a mayoral vision document on the WMCA which outlines all transport strategies including congestion. I use the excellent service West Midlands Travel Limited operates on the Outer Circle personally at least twice a week and connect to and from it on the 13A & X8.

[Jack]

What has the current 11A/11C due to do with congestion for the moment it is the responsibility of the operator. There is a mayoral vision document on the WMCA which outlines all transport strategies including congestion.

Well do you expect them to fly over the traffic hotspots they get into? Have you even ridden the 11? Or are you stuck in Blackheath because the X8 won't turn up...

[Lukeee]

The 11A/C is one of those routes which will always be late. People don't really check the timetable they just turn up and hope it's not too long a wait.

[Stu]

The Mayor has no DIRECT responsibility for the public highway but a key part of the WMCA is to draw up strategies to be carried in partnership with other authorities on matters such as highways for the greater good of the West Midlands, the WMCA is partnership of local stakeholders including members of the LEP's of which I am one.

So this is why we have situations where the Mayor is at loggerheads with Birmingham City Council over plans to demolish the Perry Barr flyover.

I am not aware on anything specific to the 11A/11C and it is never mentioned at the meetings I attend I can only conclude no concerns have been raised then about this service.

Whoever also attends these meetings you apparently attend clearly does not either use the Outer Circle services, nor do they listen to concerns from passengers who regularly use those services. This is why ordinary people have this perception of political leaders and transport authorities as 'burying their heads in the sand' as put by don earlier.

What has the current 11A/11C due to do with congestion for the moment it is the responsibility of the operator. There is a mayoral vision document on the WMCA which outlines all transport strategies including congestion. I use the excellent service West Midlands Travel Limited operates on the Outer Circle personally at least twice a week and connect to and from it on the 13A & X8.

The Outer Circle 11A/C services suffer terribly due to traffic congestion, that is a fact. Its the responsibility of the operator to do what? National Express can't go ahead and have bus lanes and priority measures installed. What else can they do apart from increasing the running time and using more vehicles to maintain the current frequency, thus increasing operating costs? At this rate, within a couple of years, the journey time will be approaching four hours.

You might be lucky enough to experience what you believe to be an 'excellent service' operated on the Outer Circle, but I know of many people who would disagree with you, myself included.

But for all the failings, I do not blame National Express at all.

[SO6597]

Wasn't is run with Lynx from the former Patterson's yard?

Yes, Elliott Road in Selly Oak. A few services in SW Bham operated out of there for a couple of years or so.

[j789]

One solution may be to keep the full route of the 11A/C on a slightly reduced timetable, eg every 10 minutes, and then have short workings between different points on the route running every 20 minutes, these being run by the nearest garage to them, eg Yardley to QE/Uni by Yardley Wood garage,  Harborne to handsworth soho road by West Bromwich garage, Handsworth to Erdington by Perry Barr garage and then Erdington to Yardley run by Acocks Green themselves.

These shorter routes could run every 20 minutes to ensure minimal disruption caused elsewhere on the full route. I would also do it (if it allowed by the regulator!) to just tell the drivers to do as many trips as possible in their shift and not necessary run to a set timetable. That way they would be more flexible to cope with any delays encountered and not be under pressure to make up time. As the full route would still be every 10 minutes, it wouldn't matter so much having the shorter routes not on a set timetable. Strange idea but may work (if allowed!)

[don]

That's how the route operated back in the 70s, but it was shared between three depots, PB, AG and Harborne, which made the short journeys a bit easier to manage. That said I agree with you, in the peak shorter journeys with some through journeys would ease the effect of multiple congestion spots. There are two problems for passengers which result in unreliable journey times - buses not arriving very regularly owing to traffic congestion, and once they get a bus, further delays caused by congestion. However the route does cross every single outer radial route to the city at some point.

Many will be surprised to hear that one of the main memories I have of being taken around the outer circle by my grandmother as a child in about 1963 (GOE reg CVA6), is of horrendous delays in places like Cotteridge, Perry Barr and Kings Heath. It's not new.

However NXWM may be able to improve it by running more short workings of a reasonable length over the busiest sections and reducing the through frequency (maybe) in the peaks.

[sonic84]

I suppose the reason the 11A/C hasn't changed is because the outer circle is pretty iconic.

However as others have pointed out if there are key failings on the service NXWM seem more reluctant to make changes than on other routes.

As suggested sharing the 11 out to Yardley Wood and perry barr and having timetables short workings could help regulate the route better.

It would be interesting to know what type of journeys passengers make on the 11. Are they short distance of long distance. I know people who still get a bus from Bearwood into the city and then another over to Erdington or Perry Barr as it is quicker to do it that way than get the 11.

[richardjones210368]

So this is why we have situations where the Mayor is at loggerheads with Birmingham City Council over plans to demolish the Perry Barr flyover.

Whoever also attends these meetings you apparently attend clearly does not either use the Outer Circle services, nor do they listen to concerns from passengers who regularly use those services. This is why ordinary people have this perception of political leaders and transport authorities as 'burying their heads in the sand' as put by don earlier.

The Outer Circle 11A/C services suffer terribly due to traffic congestion, that is a fact. Its the responsibility of the operator to do what? National Express can't go ahead and have bus lanes and priority measures installed. What else can they do apart from increasing the running time and using more vehicles to maintain the current frequency, thus increasing operating costs? At this rate, within a couple of years, the journey time will be approaching four hours.

You might be lucky enough to experience what you believe to be an 'excellent service' operated on the Outer Circle, but I know of many people who would disagree with you, myself included.

But for all the failings, I do not blame National Express at all.

In Response To Your Comments @Stu :
1. The Mayor has made his comments public on the Perry Barr Flyover
2. Unless you can prove I was not in ROOM 116, 16 Summer Lane, Birmingham, B193SD on Tuesday 28th January at 1pm at an WMCA meeting please withdraw  your comment  "these meetings you apparently attend"[/b] these meetings I apparently attend completely voluntary for no wage simply for my passion for buses and wanting to get a better bus service for all.
3. At the meeting I apparently attended no complaints were raised from submissions to TfWM or the operator present therefore I would kindly ask you how we are supposed to act on evidence based reviews on the 11A/C when my own observations when I was actually aboard the service on Monday 27th January are not in line with your comments otherwise I would have raised them alongside my concerns of the X8 I raised at the meeting I apparently attended.
I am posting this on the 02.30 PN9 ex Colmore Row proving yet again I put my money where my mouth is and use the buses I love 24hrs a day 364 days a year.

[Jack]

Have you actually ridden the 11? I mean it sounds like you're getting secondary research from people and it doesn't sound like you've done it for yourself? Then I'm sure how stuck it gets in traffic.

[2206]

One solution may be to keep the full route of the 11A/C on a slightly reduced timetable, eg every 10 minutes, and then have short workings between different points on the route running every 20 minutes, these being run by the nearest garage to them, eg Yardley to QE/Uni by Yardley Wood garage,  Harborne to handsworth soho road by West Bromwich garage, Handsworth to Erdington by Perry Barr garage and then Erdington to Yardley run by Acocks Green themselves.

These shorter routes could run every 20 minutes to ensure minimal disruption caused elsewhere on the full route. I would also do it (if it allowed by the regulator!) to just tell the drivers to do as many trips as possible in their shift and not necessary run to a set timetable. That way they would be more flexible to cope with any delays encountered and not be under pressure to make up time. As the full route would still be every 10 minutes, it wouldn't matter so much having the shorter routes not on a set timetable. Strange idea but may work (if allowed!)

Think Erdington/Perry Barr to Acocks Green would make more sense.
As loads of people travel through yardley, not a good idea and would show a lack of understanding about the route.