West Midlands Railway

[Stu]

Forthcoming railway strike listened to the clip about closing tickets offices. Surely most bus stations have lost their ticket offices due to the way their passengers travel and tickets are now eTickets meaning you don't have to go to a ticket office to buy them you can buy from local shop before travel.  Surely it will be the same with trains stations and companies the way you sell your products, if 80% is now eTickets ie there train pass is on mobile phone surely you will have to adapt your business and it will be saft having someone just sitting there not selling tickets. You have to use the resources to the best of the availability

I doubt its down to eTickets, though they are becoming more popular.

Its more likely down to people either using the self-service machines at the station, or buying tickets online and then collecting them from the machine before travelling.

Admittedly I don't travel by train very often now, but it has been several years since I've needed to buy a ticket from staff in the booking office.

[markcf83]

I never use e-tickets when I am travelling for work, a nice paper ticket and receipt is far easier to attach to my expenses form.

Same here. Paper tickets are fail proof. Mobile tickets aren't. 

[Ginger66]

Booking office staff on the railway do more than just sell tickets. E Tickets are a popular way for people to purchase their tickets, but have flaws. It leads to potential fare evasion (With the simplicity for passengers to purchase child rate tickets, add railcards they don't have or simply not buy one at all).

How do you know that it's 80% E tickets?

The 80% comment was not meant to mean it was 80% but as a ballpark figure.   What I was trying to say was if the vast majority of tickets are either smartcard (swift/oyster) /mobile etickets.  Then surely you will have to look at your business profile and how you sell your products.  But I agree the ticket office do more than just sell tickets they provide travel advice.

[Kevin]

The 80% comment was not meant to mean it was 80% but as a ballpark figure.  What I was trying to say was if the vast majority of tickets are either smartcard (swift/oyster) /mobile etickets.  Then surely you will have to look at your business profile and how you sell your products.  But I agree the ticket office do more than just sell tickets they provide travel advice.

Alas, even providing travel advice looks like becoming a thing of the past these days, regular folk just Google a route & use Trainline for mobile tickets. Personally I hate both, neither of them knows things they just know data

[2206]

Think WMR have no trains on Snow Hill line some days next week due to industrial action.
So would guess bus services that run near rail lines X2, 9/X8/X10, 4 etc might have extra passengers maybe.

[midlandred2003]

There are no trains Tuesday to Saturday.

[D10]

There are no trains Tuesday to Saturday.

Yes, and on the Monday no service on the Dorridge and Whitlocks End lines and only an hourly service to Stourbridge.

[Ginger66]

Regarding the strikes as railway passengers returned to pre COVID levels; we know bus passengers have not fully returned to pre COVID levels.

In business big bosses will look at everything to determine if a pay rise is viable.  Bosses will either use SWOT/PESTLE analysis.   

Strengths  - reliable train/bus service
Weaknesses - failing passenger numbers
Opportunities - new lines i.e. camp hill line but this could be years down the line
Threats  - another potential virus outbreak that could close country down again

Even if you look a PESTLE the two E's relate to economic and environmental.   The S relates to social.

Economic - The cost of fuel as gone meaning WMR/LNWR pays goes up for commercial diesel.
Social - Customer travel patterns change due to new ways of working ie hybrid working meaning only in office two or three times a week.
Environmental - Looking at cleaner electric or even hydrogen trains to replace diesel powered units. 

[the trainbasher]

Its not all about pay though. Its about safety as well.

Less NR staff = potential for another Hatfield
Less on board staff = potential for uncontrolled evacuations when things go wrong, more crime on-board, fare evasion increases.
Less station staff = more crime.

That's why I'm in favour of this industrial action.

[D10]

Its not all about pay though. Its about safety as well.

Less NR staff = potential for another Hatfield
Less on board staff = potential for uncontrolled evacuations when things go wrong, more crime on-board, fare evasion increases.
Less station staff = more crime.

That's why I'm in favour of this industrial action.

Don't disagree with your points at all. Unfortunately on the Snow Hill lines at least you very rarely see the conductors, so they don't provide any deterrent to anti-social behaviour or fare evasion. If the Unions are arguing that these staff are needed and deserve pay rises, they need to get out the rear cab and do these things. 

[the trainbasher]

Don't disagree with your points at all. Unfortunately on the Snow Hill lines at least you very rarely see the conductors, so they don't provide any deterrent to anti-social behaviour or fare evasion. If the Unions are arguing that these staff are needed and deserve pay rises, they need to get out the rear cab and do these things.

The problem with services like the Snow Hill and Cross City is the closeness between stations, meaning its hard to do ticket checks, customer service and the safety critical duties, especially on the all stations routes.

What's needed is more RPIs, but we all know that the TOCs won't pay out for them

[2206]

The problem with services like the Snow Hill and Cross City is the closeness between stations, meaning its hard to do ticket checks, customer service and the safety critical duties, especially on the all stations routes.

What's needed is more RPIs, but we all know that the TOCs won't pay out for them

I noticed when they do check tickets, its certainly seems to be the same few that check them.
Plus if someone's journey is between 2 stations without barriers, even less chance of it getting checked.

[j789]

It's an unfortunate situation not helped by incompetent government ministers and equally incompetent union leaders. Everyone is always trying to save face rather than actually try to resolve these issues. 

The cost of living crisis is a genuine consideration for many in the transport industry but, come on, it is a joke to say a £45000 train driver needs an 8% rise to equal the increase in cost of living - they are hardly living on the breadline on minimum wage are they?

I have spent a large part of my working life  in the bus industry. I was always in the union and supported action when we needed to take it. However, one real issue I had with some of the transport unions was how they completely failed the bus industry because of their obsession with trains. 

Bus drivers today are paid around half of what a train driver can expect. This is a ridiculous situation when you consider what a skilled job bus driving is (no matter what the government or private companies may like to suggest). The unions should have put their energies into collective action to raise the pay across the industry for bus drivers. They sadly didn't though.

This is replicated in many other low paid industries like healthcare and education. Ultimately, the unions have failed the 'real' working class who genuinely do live on the breadline earning low wages. Whatever the union's rhetoric about helping the working class, the fact they are campaigning for 8% (or whatever) for well paid workers is a slap in the face for the average worker in other industries.

Therefore, it is the unions who are now creating this social divide between people as they are not focused on the actual working class individuals who do need help in these challenging times. This is clearly what the government also wants to happen as they can then get the public to turn against the unions when their lives get disrupted by this sort of industrial action. 

It's a losing situation for everyone and I truly hope some last minute common sense prevails from all sides.

[the trainbasher]

The cost of living crisis is a genuine consideration for many in the transport industry but, come on, it is a joke to say a £45000 train driver needs an 8% rise to equal the increase in cost of living - they are hardly living on the breadline on minimum wage are they?

It's not the train drivers taking Industrial Action. Its grades like cleaners, conductors, signallers, booking office staff, TOC social media staff, Customer Service staff, dispatchers, track inspectors.

And it's not just pay but T&Cs, job losses, Health and Safety.

As I said above, it's the loss/reduction of those staff that can lead to another Hatfield disaster, an increase in crime, a increase in fare evasion, less assistance avaliable to those in need.

Also known as the "working class".

[bususer28]

The UK already has the most expensive set of rail fares in Europe so I know it's an uncomfortable reality but do things like ticket offices really need to stay open when they sell a single ticket a day? Network Rail know that passengers need a reliable service and I am sure that despite the unions' opinion, they will not compromise on safety. I am all for unions but someone really needs to think hard if holding the country to ransom is the way to win public support especially when the railway is crying for passengers to return.