Vehicles currently away from home garage

[winston]

I was going to ask why 5402 and 5412 are at East Yorkshire? However the pictures just posted of 5402 on holiday in Scarborough show it with an odd cream coloured, non standard engine bay door. Conversion work?

Yes - EYMS are converting them to Euro 6 diesel therefore they will no longer be hybrids.

A lot quicker than 5409's conversion at PCS....

[Tony]

I was going to ask why 5402 and 5412 are at East Yorkshire? However the pictures just posted of 5402 on holiday in Scarborough show it with an odd cream coloured, non standard engine bay door. Conversion work?

Hybrid system replaced with a ZF gearbox

[don]

Hybrid system replaced with a ZF gearbox

Thanks Tony. I'm guessing the whole 5401-5430 fleet will be done by next March?

[Tony]

Thanks Tony. I'm guessing the whole 5401-5430 fleet will be done by next March?

Not necessarily that quickly. As you do some conversions you get spare decent batteries and traction motors which are the expensive parts to replace and cause the conversions.

[mesub]

How come the batteries for the Volvo hybrids haven't degraded?

[Tony]

How come the batteries for the Volvo hybrids haven't degraded?

See
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/Hubs/leb/LEBTechnologies/leb-hybrid.htm

At the bottom of the page (white bit just above the black footer) you can download a report showing the replacement cost of the main parts

[Eric Shaw]

If I understand these things correctly I believe the Volvos being parallel hybrids can operate with the batteries in a much poorer state because the engine can power the bus by itself without help from the batteries.

[Stu]

Not necessarily that quickly. As you do some conversions you get spare decent batteries and traction motors which are the expensive parts to replace and cause the conversions.

See
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/Hubs/leb/LEBTechnologies/leb-hybrid.htm

At the bottom of the page (white bit just above the black footer) you can download a report showing the replacement cost of the main parts

Just out of interest, what is the approximate cost of converting one of these diesel-electric hybrid buses to 'full-diesel'?

I can appreciate that it is probably not cheap, but compared to the cost of replacing batteries etc it would probably work out to be more economic considering the lifespan of the vehicle.

But keeping things in balance, I can also see where people may get angry because NX Bus were given 'taxpayers money' to 'invest' in 'clean' hybrid buses, only to then later convert them into 'dirty polluting' diesel buses in order to save money on operating costs.



For the record, I know it is not the case that NX were 'given' these buses, and did have to contribute towards their cost, so I can fully appreciate the commercial decision that NX have made. I do recall seeing some similar kind of document, that demonstrated that the Volvo B5LH hybrids were proving to be superior to the ADL E400Hs after testing. Which is probably why they are still going strong.

[Tony]

Just out of interest, what is the approximate cost of converting one of these diesel-electric hybrid buses to 'full-diesel'?

I can appreciate that it is probably not cheap, but compared to the cost of replacing batteries etc it would probably work out to be more economic considering the lifespan of the vehicle.

But keeping things in balance, I can also see where people may get angry because NX Bus were given 'taxpayers money' to 'invest' in 'clean' hybrid buses, only to then later convert them into 'dirty polluting' diesel buses in order to save money on operating costs.



For the record, I know it is not the case that NX were 'given' these buses, and did have to contribute towards their cost, so I can fully appreciate the commercial decision that NX have made. I do recall seeing some similar kind of document, that demonstrated that the Volvo B5LH hybrids were proving to be superior to the ADL E400Hs after testing. Which is probably why they are still going strong.

Your argument doesn't stand up about making them into dirty diesel as they were only Euro5 as hybrid, but are being made Euro 6 diesel so much cleaner. The only 'green' advantage of hybrid is they do more mpg, so produce less carbon emissions but as you can see from the report I  linked to these are already down to normal diesel mpg so no advantage whosoever. NXWM paid the full price of the bus as a standard diesel and got the grant to pay for the hybrid system on top. As it is that part that needs replacing (traction motor and batteries) perhaps we could give the green fund their broken bits back they paid for.

[Busboy105]

Does this mean that the hybrids will not last as long as they would if they were hybrids?
Also, nice use of the meme.

[2206]

Will they keep the green interiors? Or will they be refurbished gaining the standard moquette?
Is there any reason why the Hyrbids on the 61/63 don't have any announcements. As they used to when they were on the 22/23?

[Busboy105]

Probably haven't bothered to record them.

[mesub]

Will they keep the green interiors? Or will they be refurbished gaining the standard moquette?
Is there any reason why the Hyrbids on the 61/63 don't have any announcements. As they used to when they were on the 22/23?

I was thinking that as well. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact that stop announcements are a platinum feature. The Phil Upton announcements worked (some of the stop James are inaccurate though) when a hybrid was heading towards Birmingham between the time that the 23 went Platinum and the London style announcements were introduced. I'm not sure if they still work now however.

[Stu]

Your argument doesn't stand up about making them into dirty diesel as they were only Euro5 as hybrid, but are being made Euro 6 diesel so much cleaner. The only 'green' advantage of hybrid is they do more mpg, so produce less carbon emissions but as you can see from the report I  linked to these are already down to normal diesel mpg so no advantage whosoever. NXWM paid the full price of the bus as a standard diesel and got the grant to pay for the hybrid system on top. As it is that part that needs replacing (traction motor and batteries) perhaps we could give the green fund their broken bits back they paid for.

I wasn't trying to make an argument, I agree with your comments. I was merely suggesting 'possible complaints' that those on the other side of the discussion might have.

I'm going to presume that the cost of converting these hybrids back into 'standard' diesel buses, is equal to or less than the cost of replacing the 'worn out' components (battery and/or traction motor), especially if those components would also need replacing again in a few more years.

As it is that part that needs replacing (traction motor and batteries) perhaps we could give the green fund their broken bits back they paid for

That I would like to see!  ;D

[RW]

Given that they're converting to full diesel operation what was the point of the hybrids in the first place?