The next West Midlands franchise

[Stuharris 6360]

142; 143 & 144 units are not allowed into Birmingham New Street

@Tony That's a shame, are they out of gauge?

[Tony]

@Tony That's a shame, are they out of gauge?

It's not a shame! Something to do with the risk of derailing on the track layout.

I believe this photo is of the only 143 ever to run into New Street Station
http://wmbusphotos.com/Trains/class143/143001.html

[Bryan]

The potential franchisees are expected to provide suggestions on improving capacity on the network, even with the limited rolling stock as it stands. This could include reducing the amount of seating and layout thereby allowing more standees, removing some of the toilets on the trains and restricting the carriage of cycles at certain times. 

[Liberator9]

Wouldn't surprise me if when it came to it the 323s have their toilets removed as opposed to fitting a DDA compliant one, in the pursuance of extra seating.

[Roy]

We may find out more when the Invitation to Tender document is published in July but it is possible that capacity issues could be addressed by either new or cascaded vehicles.  One possible solution for NUCKLE (Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington) is the use of the ex-LU Class 230 units being developed by Vivarail. 

However, the West Midlands and Chiltern Route Study is due to be published by Network Rail in mid-May for consultation.  This details the strategy for growth up to 2043.  The following are included in the strategy for implementation during Control Period 6 (2019-2024)

1.  Train lengthening across the West Midlands with platform lengthening on Wolverhampton and Shrewsbury corridors
2.  CrossCountry train lengthening

Number 2 is interesting as it would probably mean the replacement of Voyagers on long-distance XC trains, possibly with bi-mode AT300s or equivalent.  This would create a cascade with the Voyagers possibly moving to routes such as Nottingham to Cardiff or Portsmouth to Cardiff, releasing shorter DMUs for local services.

One possibility in the strategy in the longer term is the electrification of the Chiltern and Snow Hill lines in the late 2020s.

[Dylanbusboy45]

Or CrossCountry trains could be lengthened by using some HSTs displaced by IEPs on Great Western and East Coast and then double up Voyagers so all trains are around 8 coaches. Then some of the voyagers could be used on current 170 routes??

[Alex]

We may find out more when the Invitation to Tender document is published in July but it is possible that capacity issues could be addressed by either new or cascaded vehicles.  One possible solution for NUCKLE (Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington) is the use of the ex-LU Class 230 units being developed by Vivarail. 

However, the West Midlands and Chiltern Route Study is due to be published by Network Rail in mid-May for consultation.  This details the strategy for growth up to 2043.  The following are included in the strategy for implementation during Control Period 6 (2019-2024)

1.  Train lengthening across the West Midlands with platform lengthening on Wolverhampton and Shrewsbury corridors
2.  CrossCountry train lengthening

Number 2 is interesting as it would probably mean the replacement of Voyagers on long-distance XC trains, possibly with bi-mode AT300s or equivalent.  This would create a cascade with the Voyagers possibly moving to routes such as Nottingham to Cardiff or Portsmouth to Cardiff, releasing shorter DMUs for local services.

One possibility in the strategy in the longer term is the electrification of the Chiltern and Snow Hill lines in the late 2020s.

Another possibility suggested on no.2 is that, once the MML is mostly electrified (to Derby, i think?) East Midlands Trains (or their successor) gain newer BMUs (Bi-Modes) for the London-the East Midlands & Sheffield services, with the current 222's being cascaded to XC (possibly recoupled as 222's are incompatible with 220/221 units) for lengthening services. Just something that i've seen suggested

[Roy]

Or CrossCountry trains could be lengthened by using some HSTs displaced by IEPs on Great Western and East Coast and then double up Voyagers so all trains are around 8 coaches. Then some of the voyagers could be used on current 170 routes??

Much as I would love to see HSTs taking over all Edinburgh-Plymouth services, it is very unlikely to happen.  A lot of the GW sets are already destined for Scotland, while there are compliance issues with the slam doors on the Mk3 coaches, as well as the non-retention toilets.  I know that Chiltern invested in converting their Mk3s to power operated doors and retention toilets but I cannot see anybody else doing this as Chiltern hit a lot of problems doing the conversions.

In addition, Network Rail are issuing their electrification strategy this summer which will order by date future electrifications.  It is thought that Bromsgrove to Westerleigh Junction and Birmingham to Derby will be high on the list, while Coventry to Didcot is part of the electric spine which is also high on the list and was part of CP6 before the Hendy Report.  If these happen then a lot of the long distance XC network will be under the wires.

[T840MAK]

Another possibility suggested on no.2 is that, once the MML is mostly electrified (to Derby, i think?) East Midlands Trains (or their successor) gain newer BMUs (Bi-Modes) for the London-the East Midlands & Sheffield services, with the current 222's being cascaded to XC (possibly recoupled as 222's are incompatible with 220/221 units) for lengthening services. Just something that i've seen suggested

It's already been said elsewhere that XC don't want the 222s when EMT get their bi-modes for the Midland Mainline.

[The Real 4778]

Oooo Japanese partnership with Abellio, would that be the first Japanese company in the rail franchises?

No.  MTR has been running franchises (or more correctly TfL concessions) since 2007, London Overground, and Crossrail since May 2015.

[The Real 4778]

When / if the 143s get realised out of the Wales & Borders and Great Western franchises (which would be 2019 earliest), they would most likely go for scrap rather than going to LM - they're already 30 years old, and as we Northerners have proved with the 142s and extremely similar 144s, are completely unfit for purpose now.

142s will undoubtedly be going to scrap or preservation on withdrawal, as it's impractical spending money on making them PRM-TSI compliant by 31st December 2019.

[Adam 404]

142s will undoubtedly be going to scrap or preservation on withdrawal, as it's impractical spending money on making them PRM-TSI compliant by 31st December 2019.

Nothing stopping them being temporary replacements for the Nuneaton to Coventry line though if they were to decide to re-experiment with the Event Services again??? It would also increase Capacity on the line :D

[The Real 4778]

Nothing stopping them being temporary locomotives

Other than the fact they aren't locomotives, I guess.

[T840MAK]

Nothing stopping them being temporary replacements for the Nuneaton to Coventry line though if they were to decide to re-experiment with the Event Services again??? It would also increase Capacity on the line :D

The fact that they won't be DDA compliant so won't be able to be used past 31/12/19? No operator will take them off with 6 months maximum left in their life, by the time Northern/Arriva Rail North has disposed of all of them.

[Roy]

The Invitation to Tender document for the new franchise has been released today at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/549119/west-midland-stakeholder-briefing-document-and-consultation-response.pdf.  Major changes are better evening services on most lines by December 2018 and improved Sunday services on most lines by December 2021.  Pages 46 to 53 show the improvements line by line.