Cost of Regulation

[Tony]

For those who think going back to PTE days is a good idea, this report makes interesting reading. Great choice of photo though
http://www.route-one.net/industry/cost-of-regulation-is-exposed/

[Bob]

Depends where you lived Tony. PTEs may have lost money but NBC firms which would have been covering a much larger part of the uk were charged to run their affairs at a profit werent they??? What good has deregulation done for Cannock? From an operator ( two if you count pte) that we all owned, Midland Red, weve now got arriva with a virtual mmonopoly and its owned by a bloody german state rail company. And also didnt quality of service improve enormously in the Black country during the PTE era compared with the previous ( pre public ownership) Midland red standards?

[Tony]

Depends where you lived Tony. PTEs may have lost money but NBC firms which would have been covering a much larger part of the uk were charged to run their affairs at a profit werent they??? What good has deregulation done for Cannock? From an operator ( two if you count pte) that we all owned, Midland Red, weve now got arriva with a virtual mmonopoly and its owned by a bloody german state rail company. And also didnt quality of service improve enormously in the Black country during the PTE era compared with the previous ( pre public ownership) Midland red standards?

The link I have posted is to a report saying what regulation would cost, not whether it is good or bad, and nothing to do with where you live.

As an aside to your point though, a lot of the National Bus companies did NOT make a profit, several were complete basket cases

[Stu]

I agree, at present a small proportion of my council tax bill currently goes towards funding for Centro. I'm pretty sure most taxpayers would be annoyed if their council tax bill rocketed up to pay for regulated bus services, especially if they don't use public transport at all.

I just wish that people who complain about 'vast profiteering' by NX (for example) could try and understand that the profits generated are ploughed back into the business, in the form of investment in new vehicles etc. Passengers using the services contribute towards new vehicles, not every single taxpayer.

[Bob]

Oh were council taxes ( rates as was) vastly higher in the 1970s than they are now then? It depends on your outlook i guess. I see transport as a public service...i mean would you say i dont see why i should pay taxes to pay for people to have operations when i havent used a hospital in years?

[Other Walsall Tony]

Depends where you lived Tony. PTEs may have lost money but NBC firms which would have been covering a much larger part of the uk were charged to run their affairs at a profit werent they??? What good has deregulation done for Cannock? From an operator ( two if you count pte) that we all owned, Midland Red, weve now got arriva with a virtual mmonopoly and its owned by a bloody german state rail company. And also didnt quality of service improve enormously in the Black country during the PTE era compared with the previous ( pre public ownership) Midland red standards?

Weren't Midland Red and the other former BET companies more than 50% public owned even before NBC days? The railways held shares in most BET companies and those shares were nationalised in 1948, of course.
Also, Midland Red timetables had 'In association with British Railways' on them somewhere IIRC.

[barry619]

On the subject of re-regulation, the report on the same website into the opening hearings about the proposed North East Quality Contracts makes very interesting reading, if not slightly worrying given that Nexus are seemingly completely unable to get their sums right over it and would end up millions 'in the hole' should it be approved.

If services are to be re-regulated, then they will cost more to provide than they do at the moment. That is the simple truth behind the matter and something which is lost on the bodies, such as Nexus, which promote it.

[D10]

I found the "Lessons from London" report in particular is a total distortion of the situation.

OF course a London style network across England would be hugely expensive, but who has actually suggested that? Clearly London will have higher frequencies and more of a 24 hour network than the rest of the country! Also there is clearly no need to have a six year fleet age average across England!

Taking into account the report was commissioned by Stagecoach, then it is quite clear that TAS have produced the report that their paymasters wanted.

Coach and Bus Week had a far more unbiased article, as many of you won't subscribe to C & B W,here is the PTEgroup response:

Responding to the reports, Jonathan Bray, Director of Pteg, said: "TAS is well known as one of bus deregulation's most fervent devotees but even with that in mind their latest efforts really are nonsense on stilts.

"The £3.2bn cost of bus franchising they claim in their latest report is based on something that nobody is planning to do – which is to reproduce London levels of bus service throughout England, from Lands End to rural Northumbria. Even using a premise that nobody is considering, to get to the suitably scary number of £3.2bn TAS is forced to systematically underestimate the returns that bus operators currently extract from their local monopolies under bus deregulation, and pile on a whole series of biased assumptions about cost increases from bus franchising which bear no relation whatsoever to the only current detailed proposition we have on bus franchising – which is in Tyne and Wear.

"Its second report, which paints the worst picture it can manage of the pre-deregulation era, also misses the point as nobody is proposing to reproduce the system of bus provision that existed over 30 years ago."

[Bob]

@D10, exactly its like having a Tory do a critique on tje NHS lol. I thought it was the Tilling companies rather than BETthat were partially public owned

[Tony]

@D10, exactly its like having a Tory do a critique on tje NHS lol. I thought it was the Tilling companies rather than BETthat were partially public owned

That's probably not a bad idea as the Last Labour government actually privatised more of the NHS percentagewise than both Thatcher and Cameron has/intends to do!

[arrifirststage]

@D10, exactly its like having a Tory do a critique on tje NHS lol. I thought it was the Tilling companies rather than BETthat were partially public owned

The Tilling Companies were public ally owned when the government bought them in I think 1947/8.
BET companies were privately owned until around 1930,when the mainline Railway Companies bought around a 50% share in most of them.
This 50% share passed to the state when the Railways were nationalised in 1947/8 ,thus they were half state owned from then on.
In 1968 the private 50% share was bought by thr state and the National Bus Company (100%) state owned,was formed.
This is only a very rough history,but the details are very easily obtained by enthusiasts willing to read about them...........far more interesting than the present goings on,although I don't think I am supposed to make any criticism of the present.

[Tony]

Now I wasn't expected there to be one of the first areas to take control of bus services

> An historic devolution deal for first time to give Cornwall new powers to control local services, bringing jobs and prosperity to the area.
>
> Cornwall to be the first county to gain historic new powers - giving local people tools to take charge
> Cornwall to be in control of bus services, adult skills and regional investment - health and social services will also come together
> Major step in "government's one nation" commitment to extend opportunity to every corner of our country
>
> An historic devolution deal will for the first time, give Cornwall new powers to control local services, bringing jobs and prosperity to the area.
>
> As part of a major decentralisation in decision making, Cornwall will become the first rural county to benefit from devolution - gaining more control so it can set its own course to grow the local economy.
>
> The move is an important part of the "government's one nation" commitment to devolve powers to local authorities across the country and ensure hard working people can benefit from the stronger economy and decide on issues that affect them.
>
> This includes giving areas more freedom to tailor services to local needs, support local businesses and create jobs.
>
> The Cornwall devolution deal will:
>
> give Cornwall council powers for franchising and improving bus services in the area – the first rural unitary authority to gain this power
> give the Local Enterprise Partnership more say on boosting local skills levels
> give the council powers to select the projects, working with partners, it wants to see benefiting from millions of pounds of inward investment funding
> make it easier for the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership to integrate national and local business support services to help local firms grow
> enable Cornwall council and the council of the Isles of Scilly to work with local health organisations on a plan for integrating health and social care services

[Bryan]

........................ a lot of the National Bus companies did NOT make a profit, several were complete basket cases

I grew up in one of the basket case areas for the NBC, with the regional operator being Lincolnshire Road Car. After privatisation though it its fortunes were turned around after a lot of hard work by the management.

[Bob]

Public ownership...people talk like its a dirty word...

[winston]

Report & fining of the Independent Quality Contracts Scheme Board:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/quality-contract-scheme-qcs-board-report-on-the-proposed-tyne-and-wear-qcs

Go-Ahead Group response to the findings:
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12565378.html