Travel Express / Lets Go

[Pat]

Also with regard to them doing u-turns depending on if that's true isn't that illegal and dangerous? Unless they find a good place to do it.  Which then could mean that they're  also running late.

It's not illegal in this case.  It's the same as doing a u turn in your car.  If there's no sign or you're not on a motorway or one way street, it's perfectly legal.

[Bus Man K2]

It's not illegal in this case.  It's the same as doing a u turn in your car.  If there's no sign or you're not on a motorway or one way street, it's perfectly legal.

But surely it might be as it's dangerous to do one anywhere even if there's no signs. Especially on a main road that's 30MPH. Which I know sometimes you can't get upto  but when you can and then you find a bus doing a u-turn in the middle of the road that to me is illegal and dangerous. Anyway on a high frequency route like the 1 it doesn't need to have buses doing u-turns mid route unless a bus is running so late and only then it should be done is a safe way e.g turning around at an island.

[Pat]

But surely it might be as it's dangerous to do one anywhere even if there's no signs. Especially on a main road that's 30MPH. Which I know sometimes you can't get upto  but when you can and then you find a bus doing a u-turn in the middle of the road that to me is illegal and dangerous. Anyway on a high frequency route like the 1 it doesn't need to have buses doing u-turns mid route unless a bus is running so late and only then it should be done is a safe way e.g turning around at an island.

The only times when doing a u turn is illegal is when there is a sign prohibiting u turns, on a motorway or on a one way street, as I've said above.  Whether you think it's illegal or not, the driver didn't break any law.  It may have been dangerous, depending on how the traffic was (Tettenhall Rd can be quiet at times).  TEX only run every 20 mins on the 1, compared to NX every 8 mins.  When you're a small operator competing against a large operator, every passenger counts.

[Bus Man K2]

The only times when doing a u turn is illegal is when there is a sign prohibiting u turns, on a motorway or on a one way street, as I've said above.  Whether you think it's illegal or not, the driver didn't break any law.  It may have been dangerous, depending on how the traffic was (Tettenhall Rd can be quiet at times).  TEX only run every 20 mins on the 1, compared to NX every 8 mins.  When you're a small operator competing against a large operator, every passenger counts.

Yes I understand that, but in my eyes it's dangerous and illegal if you do it anywhere. As  I said Tettenhall Road is quite a busy road when I've been travelling along it. So when I find a bus doing a u-turn I'd think it would be dangerous and illegal. Normally the 1's run quite close together whether it's NX or TEX.   actually Not so much TEX, but they do run in convoy between the both of them. So it wouldn't have hurt if the TEX driver didn't do a u-turn.

[Pat]

Yes I understand that, but in my eyes it's dangerous and illegal if you do it anywhere. As  I said Tettenhall Road is quite a busy road when I've been travelling along it. So when I find a bus doing a u-turn I'd think it would be dangerous and illegal. Normally the 1's run quite close together whether it's NX or TEX.   actually Not so much TEX, but they do run in convoy between the both of them. So it wouldn't have hurt if the TEX driver didn't do a u-turn.

The law is the law, whether it's in your eyes or not.  Yes it may have been dangerous, but as I keep saying, it wasn't illegal.

[Bus Man K2]

The law is the law, whether it's in your eyes or not.  Yes it may have been dangerous, but as I keep saying, it wasn't illegal.

Well all I can say to that is it should become the law to not do u-turns anywhere. As I keep on saying it's dangerous to do them anywhere, all be it 'not illegal' yet.

[Tony]

Well all I can say to that is it should become the law to not do u-turns anywhere. As I keep on saying it's dangerous to do them anywhere, all be it 'not illegal' yet.

I think you will find the government have no intention of banning U-turns. In fact if they did several bus routes would have to be altered as many have to do U-turns at their termini (NXWM PB 28E  at Dyas Road, and 28 at Scott Arms, and East Birmingham Hospital are 3 u-turns done on one route.

[Pat]

Well all I can say to that is it should become the law to not do u-turns anywhere. As I keep on saying it's dangerous to do them anywhere, all be it 'not illegal' yet.

When there's busy traffic and lots of obstacles, then yes it is dangerous.  But on a perfectly clear road, not really.

[2206]

I think you will find the government have no intention of banning U-turns. In fact if they did several bus routes would have to be altered as many have to do U-turns at their termini (NXWM PB 28E  at Dyas Road, and 28 at Scott Arms, and East Birmingham Hospital are 3 u-turns done on one route.

PB 28 turns round at the designated U turn/junction thing on Bordesley Green East just past where the Aldi is.


Google Maps shows 4288 turning round there.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4784737,-1.8184577,3a,30y,89.41h,87.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD9KJ8NRSqm0MtWz1d2MHMA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Diamond 25 uses a similar one on Washwood Heath Road and 11E (11A) on Bromford Lane at Ward End, Fox & Goose.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.49271,-1.8236243,3a,75y,297.63h,75.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svq9ppYddw_nOMVHOOxUpLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Though can't say I've ever seen anyone take a U turn further along the Washwood Heath Road somewhere.

Also in regards to the 28 terminus on Bordesley Green East. I'm sure I saw a B10L at Stuarts Road, Stechford displaying 28 around 2008 and Google Maps does also shows 1477 laying over there.  Wander why they would be on that road back then?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4791847,-1.8124995,3a,37.5y,199.66h,78.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swjg4ktWTqcohWKRhiSqGsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Bus Man K2]

PB 28 turns round at the designated U turn/junction thing on Bordesley Green East just past where the Aldi is.


Google Maps shows 4288 turning round there.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4784737,-1.8184577,3a,30y,89.41h,87.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD9KJ8NRSqm0MtWz1d2MHMA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Diamond 25 uses a similar one on Washwood Heath Road and 11E (11A) on Bromford Lane at Ward End, Fox & Goose.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.49271,-1.8236243,3a,75y,297.63h,75.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svq9ppYddw_nOMVHOOxUpLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Though can't say I've ever seen anyone take a U turn further along the Washwood Heath Road somewhere.

Also in regards to the 28 terminus on Bordesley Green East. I'm sure I saw a B10L at Stuarts Road, Stechford displaying 28 around 2008 and Google Maps does also shows 1477 laying over there.  Wander why they would be on that road back then?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4791847,-1.8124995,3a,37.5y,199.66h,78.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swjg4ktWTqcohWKRhiSqGsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's what I'm saying @Tony. If there's a dedicated u-turning circle to do u-turns in then I'm not disputing that cars, buses or whatever can do u-turns. I'm only saying if there isn't any places then cars, Buses or whatever shouldn't do u-turns as it's dangerous and illegal, unless a u-turn is done by pulling into a side road and then doing it.

[Tony]

That's what I'm saying @Tony. If there's a dedicated u-turning circle to do u-turns in then I'm not disputing that cars, buses or whatever can do u-turns. I'm only saying if there isn't any places then cars, Buses or whatever shouldn't do u-turns as it's dangerous and illegal, unless a u-turn is done by pulling into a side road and then doing it.

As you have been told many time It is NOT illegal unless there is a no U-turn sign.
You idea of doing it via a side road actually can be illegal as when reversing a bus on the public highway you should have a responsible person at the rear assisting.

[Bus Man K2]

As you have been told many time It is NOT illegal unless there is a no U-turn sign.
You idea of doing it via a side road actually can be illegal as when reversing a bus on the public highway you should have a responsible person at the rear assisting.

I'm not saying for buses to do u-turns in a side road. I'd expect a big vehicle like that to go to an island to do it. So in my eye it would be illegal to do it anyhere (not actuall saing it is illegal to do it anyhere were there's no sign that says you can't). In many words if I was a driver of a bus and saw a person at a bus stop that I had already left I would do a u-turn in the correct place i. e. at an island or where I would deem it to be safe to do one (which is probably not going to be in the middle of a road that couls be 30MPH. I'd try to find side roads that could be suteable so something like left onto a side road, right into another, righit into anotger and then right back onto the main road.

[2206]

I'd expect a big vehicle like that to go to an island to do it. So in my eye it would be illegal to do it anyhere (not actuall saing it is illegal to do it anyhere were there's no sign that says you can't).

While maybe not illegal, I think it looks dangerous for a little vehicle like a car to do a U turn in a bad place as well.
As in the Saltley area of the Washwood Heath Road which was busy at the time, (specifically by Sandway Gardens stop), on the 55 some taxi suddenly did a u turn in the middle of the road and nearly caused an accident with 1798 the other day.

[Bus Man K2]

While maybe not illegal, I think it looks dangerous for a little vehicle like a car to do a U turn in a bad place as well.
As in the Saltley area of the Washwood Heath Road which was busy at the time, (specifically by Sandway Gardens stop), on the 55 some taxi suddenly did a u turn in the middle of the road and nearly caused an accident with 1798 the other day.

As ai say I'm not actually saying it is illegal but in my eyes it should be, as stated by you @2206   it could cause an accident. Much like the one that could have happendled and you explained. As I said I'm not actually saying it is illegal to do a u-turn anywhere where it doesn't show that you can't but 'in my eyes it should be to provent accidents because there are some caractors out there that don't pay attention to the road and also could cause an accident of their own making but when it could be provented by may be not doing u-turns in dangerous places or anywhere where it could cause an accident then surely that's a win win for everybody (including bus companies).

[Ian Hardy]

As ai say I'm not actually saying it is illegal but in my eyes it should be, as stated by you @2206   it could cause an accident. Much like the one that could have happendled and you explained. As I said I'm not actually saying it is illegal to do a u-turn anywhere where it doesn't show that you can't but 'in my eyes it should be to provent accidents because there are some caractors out there that don't pay attention to the road and also could cause an accident of their own making but when it could be provented by may be not doing u-turns in dangerous places or anywhere where it could cause an accident then surely that's a win win for everybody (including bus companies).

At risk of going off topic, some comments:
1.   Are you suggesting that "U-turns" should become illegal for all vehicles or just buses? I cannot see taxis or pizza delivery mopeds accepting this rule.
2.   Would the ban be on all roads or just main roads and if just main roads how would you word the legislation to cover this, e.g. Coventry Road between Birmingham City FC's ground and Heybarnes Circus has the same road classification as a cul-de-sac, as it is not an A or a B class road?
3.   In North London, the 279 terminates at Manor House Station from the north, and then does a U-turn in Seven Sisters Road (A503) to return to Waltham Cross. There are no traffic lights or other special road markings or signs to warn other road users that this occurs. The 279 is not a minor route, it runs every 7-8 minutes with E400 double deckers. This part of the A503 has 3 other high frequency bus routes along it (253, 254 & 259). The side roads near Manor House station are unsuitable to be used to turn buses, the nearest alternative location to turn the buses would be Finsbury Park Station but there is nowhere for the buses to stand there and the extension would probably add 2 or 3 extra buses to the PVR. Who would pay for either the road layout modifications or the extra buses? The fact that there are very few incidents at this location says what would banning U-turns actually achieve apart from higher costs?