New Deliveries / New Livery & Branding Discussion

[Tony]

because they are smaller operators as you said which likely cannot afford it unlike nxwm which have a huge monopoly over the west midlands area (literally 93% of services) and bring in record profits year over year (197.3 million in 2023)

i don't know but to me it just makes sense to maybe put an ounce of care into how your equipment looks when its being used on 93% of the west midlands's bus services.

National Express West Midlands made a loss in 2023 without the government subsidy, a subsidy which is to be used on providing a service.

Not sure how 93% is a monopoly either.

[Wumpty]

because they are smaller operators as you said which likely cannot afford it unlike nxwm which have a huge monopoly over the west midlands area (literally 93% of services) and bring in record profits year over year (197.3 million in 2023)

i don't know but to me it just makes sense to maybe put an ounce of care into how your equipment looks when its being used on 93% of the west midlands's bus services.

Smaller operators usually have lower overheads, a smaller fleet, lower wages and greater control over their budgets, meaning they'd probably have a greater ability to control how their fleet looks. 

I've worked for small and large bus companies and can assure you that it's easier to effect change, conditions and liveries/appearance of a fleet in a smaller company than it is at a larger one.

As @winston  has already clarified, NX Bus don't make the levels of profit that you claim it does - hence why livery restoration clauses are negotiated with advertising companies when full wraps are removed to keep the costs to NX Bus down.

NX have inherited their "93% monopoly" post deregulation, mergers and acquisitions and by investing heavily in services and their fleet - every company that has gone into competition against NX Bus have seen how difficult it is to invest and maintain the levels that NX Bus have across all areas of service provision.

What's even more complex is the evolution of the liveries and complexities of each one, and I think NX do a damned good job at maintaining each one and ensure the passengers can tell which one of the plethora of operators is an NX bus from a distance.

[Mike K]

I very much doubt they would be two colours. It adds up to a thousand pounds to a repaint, hence the current switch to a single grey

Continuing this discussion in this thread as I'm conscious the Electric Buses thread has now gone way off-topic.

I don't and never have worked in the industry and may be well wide of the mark and over simplifying things, but...

If a two colour scheme adds up to £1,000 to a repaint, presumably this needs to be considered in the context of how often a bus gets repainted. Some of the fleet is now 9 years old and has never had a repaint. 

If a bus was repainted every 5 years (the reality on average must be a lot longer) then the additional cost of a 2 colour scheme repaint would amount to c £200 per bus per year. Factor in a bit extra for the extra maintenance / repair patching on a 2 colour livery.

I'm sure I've read on here that route branding has been proven to increase patronage by x% (I can't remember the actual number). Would a smarter livery with effective use of colourful vinyls, like for example the 68/19 plate Platinums (50, 9, X10, 82/87, 16 branded etc) not therefore in theory generate sufficient additional patronage to more than pay for the additional paint cost? Each bus would only need to carry a few extra passengers a year. 

I can't imagine the current single dark grey scheme does much to attract new users.

[Funnysnow18]

Continuing this discussion in this thread as I'm conscious the Electric Buses thread has now gone way off-topic.

I don't and never have worked in the industry and may be well wide of the mark and over simplifying things, but...

If a two colour scheme adds up to £1,000 to a repaint, presumably this needs to be considered in the context of how often a bus gets repainted. Some of the fleet is now 9 years old and has never had a repaint.

If a bus was repainted every 5 years (the reality on average must be a lot longer) then the additional cost of a 2 colour scheme repaint would amount to c £200 per bus per year. Factor in a bit extra for the extra maintenance / repair patching on a 2 colour livery.

I'm sure I've read on here that route branding has been proven to increase patronage by x% (I can't remember the actual number). Would a smarter livery with effective use of colourful vinyls, like for example the 68/19 plate Platinums (50, 9, X10, 82/87, 16 branded etc) not therefore in theory generate sufficient additional patronage to more than pay for the additional paint cost? Each bus would only need to carry a few extra passengers a year.

I can't imagine the current single dark grey scheme does much to attract new users.

The dark grey must be boring to look at all day every day

[Isle of Stroma]

I'm sure I've read on here that route branding has been proven to increase patronage by x% (I can't remember the actual number). Would a smarter livery with effective use of colourful vinyls, like for example the 68/19 plate Platinums (50, 9, X10, 82/87, 16 branded etc) not therefore in theory generate sufficient additional patronage to more than pay for the additional paint cost? Each bus would only need to carry a few extra passengers a year.

I can't imagine the current single dark grey scheme does much to attract new users.

The only redeeming feature of that bloody awful 'livery' is that it's NOT (at the moment) plastered with route branding.

I hope that the penny pinching isn't going to be blown on a bulk purchase of green fablon ...

[Mike K]

Working in a prison must be difficult

What the...? Is this in the correct thread? Or even the correct forum?

[2900]

The dark grey must be boring to look at all day every day

No one spends all day looking at a bus livery, Vast majority of the bus patrons couldn't careless, a bus is a box on wheels that transports them so they can go about there business end of.

[2900]

Yesterday I saw recently painted pennsnett 48## and recently done WB 49## at Tesco lay by stop dudley burntree, from across the rd they looked shiny & smart looking. 
Once the transfers starts  and the really shabby looking  Gemnis get taken out and WB's newly refurbed 4900s come about things will improve no end.

[Wba_lad]

Will the hybrid gemenis (55**) get painted into the new livery? 

[2900]

Will the hybrid gemenis (55**) get painted into the new livery?

Imo I doubt it they are non standard buses with quirky driveline set up, other bus groups are ditching hybrids, first up Scotland way has scrapped a fair few , theres a youtube video of them in a yard and they still look decent, the leather seats could quite easily upgrade a standard bus easily but it comes down to labour costs etc 

[frostjay974]

Hi will the normal diesel vehicles get grey first responder stickers?

[JosephR]

Will any new additions to the training fleet get a new training livery? I don't suppose they'd be put into the standard one as that is now "out-dated". 

[EK40]

Volvo BZL SD BV72 KPG now on demo at coventry as per tony on facebook.

[Wba_lad]

Volvo BZL SD BV72 KPG now on demo at coventry as per tony on facebook.

Anyone know when it will be out in service?

[Stu]

Anyone know when it will be out in service?

https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?msg=332146