New Deliveries / New Livery & Branding Discussion

[Westy]

At Walsall I'm sure it was stated 2124-2132 will be painted WM bus for 31/32 9 buses for 9 daytime boards.
1 PM peak board is trident operated.
Not sure how many buses are diamond but majority are wm bus liveried.

2112-2119 have WM bus logos but don't think these are being repainted into wm bus livery probably just a back up spares.

If 2112 to 2119 are still red & white currently, albeit with WMB fleetnames, would I be correct in thinking they would gain WMB livery, when it comes to their turn to be repainted?

(I suppose there's a good chance Walsall would get a second joint route in the future?)

[I love Walsall buses]

If 2112 to 2119 are still red & white currently, albeit with WMB fleetnames, would I be correct in thinking they would gain WMB livery, when it comes to their turn to be repainted?

(I suppose there's a good chance Walsall would get a second joint route in the future?)

There probably will be with both companies running on some routes already like the 29 and 36 and the 41 so probably a very high chance

[2206]

There probably will be with both companies running on some routes already like the 29 and 36 and the 41 so probably a very high chance

Would it include routes like that, or is it just for routes like the current ones where the operators are competing with each other,  those routes are operated by one operator, but operated by another on Sundays (Tendered trips), the buses used on there will for most of the week would be used elsewhere on other tendered routes as well?

[John]

Would it include routes like that, or is it just for routes like the current ones where the operators are competing with each other,  those routes are operated by one operator, but operated by another on Sundays (Tendered trips), the buses used on there will for most of the week be used elsewhere on other tendered routes as well?

No I wouldn't think so

[BU07 LGO]

If 2112 to 2119 are still red & white currently, albeit with WMB fleetnames, would I be correct in thinking they would gain WMB livery, when it comes to their turn to be repainted?

(I suppose there's a good chance Walsall would get a second joint route in the future?)

2112-9 /33 are for the 10 so I assume will be crimson

[RW]

Can anyone explain how the TfWM branding is going to 'work'? About half a dozen vehicles painted by NXWM and Diamond into 'West Midlands Bus' livery. With NXWM continuing to paint their vehicles into the crimson livery the 'one network' initiative simply seems to have introduced yet another livery onto the roads of the West Midlands, surely a step back from 'one' anything? On the face of it a lot of fuss about very little!

Interesting that so far no one has offered a response to my question which basically is what is the future for the 'West Midlands Bus' livery and branding? Is it going to become the new livery, for NXWM and other operators in the West Midlands or, as seems to be the case at the present time, will they continue with 'crimson' in the case of NXWM.  If the latter it begs the question 'why bother?'. What's the point?

[2206]

Interesting that so far no one has offered a response to my question which basically is what is the future for the 'West Midlands Bus' livery and branding? Is it going to become the new livery, for NXWM and other operators in the West Midlands or, as seems to be the case at the present time, will they continue with 'crimson' in the case of NXWM.  If the latter it begs the question 'why bother?'. What's the point?

It's for routes where the operators are competing with each other.
Instead of competing, the operators are working together by running at a joint frequency and accepting each other's tickets.
It is initially being trialled on the 42/43/43A and 31/32 routes because both operators were willing to put the same resources into the route, resulting in PVR saving for both operators.

[PB2938]

2112-9 /33 are for the 10 so I assume will be crimson

When 2112-2119 came to Walsall they lived on the 29. Hopefully gaining wm bus logos that's where they'll go back to joint with diamond

[Stu]

Interesting that so far no one has offered a response to my question which basically is what is the future for the 'West Midlands Bus' livery and branding? Is it going to become the new livery, for NXWM and other operators in the West Midlands or, as seems to be the case at the present time, will they continue with 'crimson' in the case of NXWM.  If the latter it begs the question 'why bother?'. What's the point?

In the long-term, the aim is to have all buses operating within the West Midlands in the same livery and branding. This obviously isn't going to happen overnight, and I believe the 31/32 and 42/43 partnerships are just the first of many, though I am presuming at this stage these are very much in a 'trial period' to see how things work out for both operators.

I believe it has been commented on elsewhere here that at the moment bus operators are being asked to consider repainting their buses into this livery, but at present there are no firm obligations for operators to do so. Presumably again this is a discussion to be had amongst the members of the West Midlands Bus Alliance and for them to agree to formally with TfWM.

So in the short-term, until some agreement gets formalised, it will just be 'business as usual' for operators regarding their own livery designs.

https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/a-brand-for-the-west-midlands-tfwm-reveals-new-public-transport-identity/
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/first-new-west-midlands-transport-branded-buses-in-operation/

[DJ]

In the long-term, the aim is to have all buses operating within the West Midlands in the same livery and branding. This obviously isn't going to happen overnight, and I believe the 31/32 and 42/43 partnerships are just the first of many, though I am presuming at this stage these are very much in a 'trial period' to see how things work out for both operators.

I believe it has been commented on elsewhere here that at the moment bus operators are being asked to consider repainting their buses into this livery, but at present there are no firm obligations for operators to do so. Presumably again this is a discussion to be had amongst the members of the West Midlands Bus Alliance and for them to agree to formally with TfWM.

So in the short-term, until some agreement gets formalised, it will just be 'business as usual' for operators regarding their own livery designs.

https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/a-brand-for-the-west-midlands-tfwm-reveals-new-public-transport-identity/
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/first-new-west-midlands-transport-branded-buses-in-operation/

Do TfWM have similar powers to TfL in that they can require all operators to use a common livery scheme, or is that not the case? If they're really serious about this, I'd have thought they'd set a date a year or two into the future to require it, and also require it on any new buses, for example.

[Tony]

I'd have thought they'd set a date a year or two into the future to require it,

You need a lot longer than that. Even in London there are vehicles not in the current allover red livery which has been in force for nearly 10 years

[Eric Shaw]

Is there news on the electric buses due this year? I would have expected some of the necessary infrastructure involved would be evident by now.

[Stu]

Do TfWM have similar powers to TfL in that they can require all operators to use a common livery scheme, or is that not the case? If they're really serious about this, I'd have thought they'd set a date a year or two into the future to require it, and also require it on any new buses, for example.

Tony probably knows more on this than I do, but with regard to 'powers', TfWM is completely different to TfL.

TfL manage the bus services in London and they are all operated under tendered franchises by various operators, whereas in the West Midlands, the vast majority of bus services are run as commercial operations by the operators themselves.

So TfL is able to specify certain requirements to operators looking to bid for tenders, such as vehicle types, livery design, emission specs etc. I may be wrong on this, but TfL might even own the buses and lease them to the operators, I'm not sure on that one.

The Bus Services Act certainly grants the Mayor of a Combined Authority the powers to set up a similar franchising system to TfL, however I am of the belief that this will not happen any time soon here in the West Midlands, due to the commercial nature of the majority of the bus network, and TfWM would prefer to simply 'partner' with local operators to keep costs down.

[Jack]

When 2112-2119 came to Walsall they lived on the 29. Hopefully gaining wm bus logos that's where they'll go back to joint with diamond

Who said the 29 will be another jointly operated route?

[I love Walsall buses]

Who said the 29 will be another jointly operated route?

It could be a candidate