If you had the chance to modify or add any service, what would you do?

[Wumpty]

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But very few four digit ones which if you read Wumpty's comment was the big problem

On these two photos, this is challenge that TWM (and passengers) faced. On a static photo, they are legible, but imagine them in a crowded street or bus station, dusk and you've a split second to flag it down.

Whilst flip dots and LED blinds offer greater flexibility on updating blinds without costs and lead times waiting for paper blinds to be produced/delivered, the continuity and restrictions on fonts meant that it's a choice of route number or destination.

The current system works just fine too.

Duplication of route numbers isn't an issue. The network has been broken down into more local areas, and thus for people in those areas the numbering system is easier to understand.

Interestingly in Wolverhampton there are two different services numbered 9, the Arriva one to Bridgnorth and the NX one to Walsall, yet you never hear about anyone getting confused by the two.

I think everyone got on the correct bus without complaint

Almost certainly some initial confusion, though with all change there's a period of transition - both of the posts from Stu and Tony show that duplicated numbers can live in perfect harmony!

[Rachvince53]

Part of the problem with electronic blinds is when the sun shines directly on the display it can make it impossible to read unless you're really close.  Okay if it's the only bus route but not great when a number of routes use the stop. Also the display brightness can fade with age. 

[ellspurs]

If the four digit displays are such a problem why haven't the 9xx services been migrated over to 3-digit maximum numbering? The 937a and 907a are still running, and any three digit service that needs to do a shortened run becomes a four digit service with the addition of the 'e'. 

Also the 101, 126, 529 and 530.

[Tony]

If the four digit displays are such a problem why haven't the 9xx services been migrated over to 3-digit maximum numbering? The 937a and 907a are still running, and any three digit service that needs to do a shortened run becomes a four digit service with the addition of the 'e'.

Also the 101, 126, 529 and 530.

Some of it depends on the destinations by the side of the four digits.

It actually getting less of a problem again now LEDs are used, but the dot matrix in the photos have a much lower number of characters that can be displayed in one line

[Wumpty]

Some of it depends on the destinations by the side of the four digits.

It actually getting less of a problem again now LEDs are used, but the dot matrix in the photos have a much lower number of characters that can be displayed in one line

IIRC the flip dots were 124 x 16 against the newer LEDs at 144 x 19 - thus a greater flexibility.

[jasmine]

Honestly the system worked just fine.

There is too much duplication of numbers across the network and whilst someone is unlike to confuse the Birmingham 4 with a Wolverhampton 4, at one point there was a 46 in Great Barr that was different to the 46 in Perry Barr.

A lot of services are still 3 digit but just have letters instead of numbers. 

the Great Barr 46 and Perry Barr 46 confused me so much as a kid because there's genuinely like a mile between the two routes and there was no correlation between them as well. The PB46 is now 52

[Stu]

Some of it depends on the destinations by the side of the four digits.

It actually getting less of a problem again now LEDs are used, but the dot matrix in the photos have a much lower number of characters that can be displayed in one line

Yes, the flip-dot displays have a lower 'resolution' compared to the LED matrix displays, but both still have limitations on what can be 'clearly' displayed to intending passengers.

I don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.

I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.

[mesub]

I don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.

I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.

I don't think you dreamt it. I have heard that some London buses do have these high resolution LED displays now, which look incredibly similar to the traditional roller blind displays.

[Tony]

Yes, the flip-dot displays have a lower 'resolution' compared to the LED matrix displays, but both still have limitations on what can be 'clearly' displayed to intending passengers.

I don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.

I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.

Nearly all new TfL buses have them, Abellio 2447 is the oldest bus with one 

https://wmbusphotos.com/NONWM/Abellio/2447.html

[suavegarv]

One of the challenges TWM faced with 3-digit system is space on the flip dot/LED blinds. With conventional 4-track roller blinds, they numbers were always the same size regardless.

With flip dot/LED, you're space constrained meaning that the numbers would be squashed to accommodate the destination wording - add that with a 4-digit number, e.g. 501E, then you're even more constrained, and from a distance, harder to read.

Change, like everything else, is always hard to accept at first, though I do much prefer the old 3xx 4xx 5xx system myself, from a purely nostalgic perspective.

The rear number display on some of either the 45xx or 46xx (cant rember which) had a vinyl strip on either side that obscured 3/4 digit numbers.

[Westy]

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On these two photos, this is challenge that TWM (and passengers) faced. On a static photo, they are legible, but imagine them in a crowded street or bus station, dusk and you've a split second to flag it down.

Whilst flip dots and LED blinds offer greater flexibility on updating blinds without costs and lead times waiting for paper blinds to be produced/delivered, the continuity and restrictions on fonts meant that it's a choice of route number or destination.
Almost certainly some initial confusion, though with all change there's a period of transition - both of the posts from Stu and Tony show that duplicated numbers can live in perfect harmony!

Slightly off topic, but what's the difference between a (5)59 Ashmore Park & (5)59E Ashmore Park?

[Mike K]

Slightly off topic, but what's the difference between a (5)59 Ashmore Park & (5)59E Ashmore Park?

As it serves quite a loop around Ashmore Park I think the E was to show that it finished at the Higgs Road terminus stop and didn't continue via the Griffiths Drive loop.

[Jack]

the Great Barr 46 and Perry Barr 46 confused me so much as a kid because there's genuinely like a mile between the two routes and there was no correlation between them as well. The PB46 is now 52

Well originally it was the 406 but whoever's bright mind to wreck a good numbering system meant that there was two 46's in a short area of each other.

[Wumpty]

The rear number display on some of either the 45xx or 46xx (cant rember which) had a vinyl strip on either side that obscured 3/4 digit numbers.

This was a body build issue rather than a TWM/NXWM issue - the rear glass fitted (I'm assuming) was for the slightly narrower apertures on London bodies.

[Rachvince53]

As it serves quite a look around Ashmore Park I think the E was to show that it finished at the Higgs Road terminus stop and didn't continue via the Griffiths Drive loop.

That's correct.  It was used when the 59s were late either because of roadworks or congestion. Still used on occasions now.