What are people views, just curious?

[Gareth]

Maybe not easily folded but they can be folded

But where does it go when folded? Who holds the baby while the parent is folding up the buggy? Where do the 15 shopping bags that are hanging on the handles go?
What's going to delay the journey more? Arguments between wheelchair passenger, parent and driver? Or the folding up and trying to store somewhere the spaceship sized buggy?

Whatever the outcome of the appeal. Someone is going to be very inconvenienced. Each side has it's own pros and cons.

[the trainbasher]

Well then how about banning buggies from using buses then.

I'll say it again. How did parents cope prior to SLF?

[Tony]

Well then how about banning buggies from using buses then.

I'll say it again. How did parents cope prior to SLF?

A lot didn't catch them! That is my point above allowing buggies on buses has increased passenger numbers, those one or two extra a journey may make the difference between profit and loss

[Roy]

In my childhood, many many years ago, my parents managed to travel by bus into the city centre with myself and my sister without too many problems.  I was old enough to walk so I either walked or was carried.  My sister was in a pushchair which was small enough to be folded up and stowed under the stairs by the conductor.  In those days, my local route was operated by Bristol KSW's or Lodekkas which certainly were pushchair unfriendly.  The thing is that parents in those days prepared themselves for a journey by bus knowing that a large pram or pushchair was out of the question.  These days, SLF's have made parents think that they can take anything on board irrespective of how much space they take up.  What annoys me these days are the buggies built like Chieftan tanks that take up about 3 seats and are used to accommodate children who are old enough to walk.

[Stu]

A particular example I've seen on a couple of occasions is where someone with a buggy will get on the bus, park the buggy in the zone, and then take child out the buggy and go sit elsewhere on the bus with the child on their lap, or even put the child on a seat. The buggy could have been easily folded away (it didn't have masses of bags hanging from it), yet a space was taken up (preventing an unfoldable buggy coming on), and two seats were lost elsewhere for passengers to sit on.

Maybe they could get rid of the useless free Metro newspapers, all they do is end up littering the bus, and they fill up one of the little luggage racks available that people can put stuff into.

[Ossie]

Disabled wheel-chair users have got more than adequate provision for transport locally by using WMSNT minibuses.

So, if we're going to be politically correct, in the interests of tackling equality and discrimination, let's open up all those minibuses to buggy-users ....  ;)

[trident4370]

Maybe they could get rid of the useless free Metro newspapers, all they do is end up littering the bus, and they fill up one of the little luggage racks available that people can put stuff into.

No thanks, I quite enjoy a flick through the metro! They've nearly always run out by 10am anyway, most of the buggy brigade are only just starting out at that time.

[Stu]

Disabled wheel-chair users have got more than adequate provision for transport locally by using WMSNT minibuses.

So, if we're going to be politically correct, in the interests of tackling equality and discrimination, let's open up all those minibuses to buggy-users ....  ;)

And let able-bodied people travel on Ring-And-Ride!  :D

[the trainbasher]

Hear hear!

[j789]

Maybe they could get rid of the useless free Metro newspapers, all they do is end up littering the bus, and they fill up one of the little luggage racks available that people can put stuff into.

Cannot see that happening as the bus companies get paid for having them on the buses - easy money when you think about it really.

As for the main question, we covered this in a CPC session at Worcester last year and there was much debate amongst the drivers. I don't think there is an easy answer because you may soon get to the stage where a driver of a bus with a wheelchair on already refuses another one getting on and then that company ends up in court again for discrimination. Also, the local newspapers love a story about the terrible way the big bad bus companies treat their passengers. You really cant win either way.

[Stu]

Well then how about banning buggies from using buses then.

I'll say it again. How did parents cope prior to SLF?

When I was a little lad, and just about old enough to walk, my mum would push my younger brother in the foldable pushchair she had up to the bus stop, then she'd pick up my brother, fold up the pushchair and then put it in the ample sized luggage rack on the bus while we travelled into Dudley town centre, with both of us on her lap, or me on the seat next to her; she'd never let either one of us out of her sight. As I got a little older and able to walk further, the bus trips stopped, and we'd walk all the way to Dudley and back.

[Tony]

Disabled wheel-chair users have got more than adequate provision for transport locally by using WMSNT minibuses.

Have they? Have you knowledge of someone who has tried to use ring & ride. How would you like having to book your journeys a week in advance just to make sure you could get where you are going, oh and you are housebound on Sundays, what time do you have to be home? Sorry no spaces that day you will have to get your hospital appointment changed!

[Ossie]

Oh well, fair enough, Tony, I don't have that sort of knowledge of the R&R operation. I thought the booking/operation of it was a bit more flexible than it obviously is .....

[arrivadays]

I am completely in favour for wheelchair users to get the priority over buggy users - without a doubt!

But, while this may not be relevant to the matter, it annoys me how people just sit in the bay as happy as Larry, with nothing to warrant them sitting there, and won't move until a wheelchair/pushchair user asks them to move. It annoys me how some people have a lack of courtesy for others that have the allowance of the bay, whether its pushchair or wheelchair. I remember getting on the bus once, and these 4 people wouldn't move until the mother asked them to move so she could use the bay for her pushchair, even though they saw her wanting to get on, while the other bay was full with another pushchair.

[Liverpool Street]

Some buggies cannot just be easily folded. Have you seen the size of some of them?
What was the mother supposed to do, get off and wait for the next bus? Maybe she would have missed her train connection and arrived an hour late and become embarrassed and lack in confidence. Could she sue under the equality act?
It's a tricky case, and I think one with no clear answers. The bus driver asked the lady to move, I don't think he could have done any more.

My biggest worry is that if First do lose the case at appeal the wheelchair space will be just that and have to remain empty if one is not aboard, which is 95% of the time. Bus companies will still want to provide buggy space, as that does increase passenger numbers and revenue, so we will end up with even fewer seats in the lower saloon

...at this rate the whole lower saloon would be disabled bays and fold up seats!!!