Doors

[Tony]

The ex me trolling trident that Ampm had the system on those was that the doors would not open unless the bus was fully stopped and as soon as the vehicle moved off the doors would close. Imo that is a better system than the one nxwm have as this alleviates the (idiot factor).
I temper your bus ikarus buses had a similar system fitted.

Again, that means a driver can pull away with the doors open trapping someone as they automatically close as the bus pulls away, exactly what happened and why the HSE recommended against it

[andy]

The ex me trolling trident that Ampm had the system on those was that the doors would not open unless the bus was fully stopped and as soon as the vehicle moved off the doors would close. Imo that is a better system than the one nxwm have as this alleviates the (idiot factor).
I temper your bus ikarus buses had a similar system fitted.

Again, that means a driver can pull away with the doors open trapping someone as they automatically close as the bus pulls away, exactly what happened and why the HSE recommended against it

In my experience Tony the HSE will accept robust working practices and the training of them as an attempt to satisfy due diligence.

If you can prove that all drivers are specifically trained in awareness of the platform area, or fit extra blind spot mirrors such as those you get on a coach, then the HSE would likely be happy. I think the interlock system has been an over reaction which if that effective and proven, would have been adopted as law, yet wasn't.

[Tony]

The ex me trolling trident that Ampm had the system on those was that the doors would not open unless the bus was fully stopped and as soon as the vehicle moved off the doors would close. Imo that is a better system than the one nxwm have as this alleviates the (idiot factor).
I temper your bus ikarus buses had a similar system fitted.

Again, that means a driver can pull away with the doors open trapping someone as they automatically close as the bus pulls away, exactly what happened and why the HSE recommended against it

In my experience Tony the HSE will accept robust working practices and the training of them as an attempt to satisfy due diligence.

If you can prove that all drivers are specifically trained in awareness of the platform area, or fit extra blind spot mirrors such as those you get on a coach, then the HSE would likely be happy. I think the interlock system has been an over reaction which if that effective and proven, would have been adopted as law, yet wasn't.

Correct, but as this topic started with the question of why you see small operators driving off with the doors open under normal circumstances proves that those operators are not training their drivers in robust procedures. In the hot weather I saw several Sunny Travel buses being driven at normal road speed with passengers including young children on with the doors fully open. If one of those children ran up the front chasing something they had dropped I doubt Sunny Travel would still be on the road much longer. I am also fairly certain that despite the best training without the interlock some NX drivers would pull away as the doors were closing.

Take this scenario. Driver does everything properly, waits for boarding passengers to be safely sat or holding tight, checks all mirrors and blind spots including extra 'coach' blind spot mirror. Final check is always offside mirror to check for passing cars to see if it is safe to pull out, as he does he closes the doors and does a quick getaway to slot into a gap in traffic. While he is looking at the offside mirror someone appears out of a shop door level with the bus stop just 2m away on a narrow pavement completely out of view when driver checked mirrors and top half of body gets stuck in doors.

New mirror and training completely worthless! Training will always say wait until doors have closed before pulling away, interlock just makes sure that is followed.

[Liverpool Street]

The ex me trolling trident that Ampm had the system on those was that the doors would not open unless the bus was fully stopped and as soon as the vehicle moved off the doors would close. Imo that is a better system than the one nxwm have as this alleviates the (idiot factor).
I temper your bus ikarus buses had a similar system fitted.

Again, that means a driver can pull away with the doors open trapping someone as they automatically close as the bus pulls away, exactly what happened and why the HSE recommended against it

In my experience Tony the HSE will accept robust working practices and the training of them as an attempt to satisfy due diligence.

If you can prove that all drivers are specifically trained in awareness of the platform area, or fit extra blind spot mirrors such as those you get on a coach, then the HSE would likely be happy. I think the interlock system has been an over reaction which if that effective and proven, would have been adopted as law, yet wasn't.

Correct, but as this topic started with the question of why you see small operators driving off with the doors open under normal circumstances proves that those operators are not training their drivers in robust procedures. In the hot weather I saw several Sunny Travel buses being driven at normal road speed with passengers including young children on with the doors fully open. If one of those children ran up the front chasing something they had dropped I doubt Sunny Travel would still be on the road much longer. I am also fairly certain that despite the best training without the interlock some NX drivers would pull away as the doors were closing.

Take this scenario. Driver does everything properly, waits for boarding passengers to be safely sat or holding tight, checks all mirrors and blind spots including extra 'coach' blind spot mirror. Final check is always offside mirror to check for passing cars to see if it is safe to pull out, as he does he closes the doors and does a quick getaway to slot into a gap in traffic. While he is looking at the offside mirror someone appears out of a shop door level with the bus stop just 2m away on a narrow pavement completely out of view when driver checked mirrors and top half of body gets stuck in doors.

New mirror and training completely worthless! Training will always say wait until doors have closed before pulling away, interlock just makes sure that is followed.

Annoyingly correct!

When I was driving, I always hoped for quick closing doors full stop, as then you can watch them close but try doing it for 8hours in 4181!

[andy]

The ex me trolling trident that Ampm had the system on those was that the doors would not open unless the bus was fully stopped and as soon as the vehicle moved off the doors would close. Imo that is a better system than the one nxwm have as this alleviates the (idiot factor).
I temper your bus ikarus buses had a similar system fitted.

Again, that means a driver can pull away with the doors open trapping someone as they automatically close as the bus pulls away, exactly what happened and why the HSE recommended against it

In my experience Tony the HSE will accept robust working practices and the training of them as an attempt to satisfy due diligence.

If you can prove that all drivers are specifically trained in awareness of the platform area, or fit extra blind spot mirrors such as those you get on a coach, then the HSE would likely be happy. I think the interlock system has been an over reaction which if that effective and proven, would have been adopted as law, yet wasn't.

Correct, but as this topic started with the question of why you see small operators driving off with the doors open under normal circumstances proves that those operators are not training their drivers in robust procedures. In the hot weather I saw several Sunny Travel buses being driven at normal road speed with passengers including young children on with the doors fully open. If one of those children ran up the front chasing something they had dropped I doubt Sunny Travel would still be on the road much longer. I am also fairly certain that despite the best training without the interlock some NX drivers would pull away as the doors were closing.

Take this scenario. Driver does everything properly, waits for boarding passengers to be safely sat or holding tight, checks all mirrors and blind spots including extra 'coach' blind spot mirror. Final check is always offside mirror to check for passing cars to see if it is safe to pull out, as he does he closes the doors and does a quick getaway to slot into a gap in traffic. While he is looking at the offside mirror someone appears out of a shop door level with the bus stop just 2m away on a narrow pavement completely out of view when driver checked mirrors and top half of body gets stuck in doors.

New mirror and training completely worthless! Training will always say wait until doors have closed before pulling away, interlock just makes sure that is followed.

Well there's only so many accidents you can prevent.

With all the interlocks in the world, the driver will always be looking in his offside mirror as he pulls away and there are plenty of other places a stray pedestrian can put themselves without the invitation of doors to get trapped in. What do you do about that?

This was one accident in how many bus movements every day? Most of us (touch wood) have managed to get through an entire career of professional driving without driving off with a passenger half off the bus. I would always be wanting to know how that driver managed to do it in the first place.

[Tony]

The ex me trolling trident that Ampm had the system on those was that the doors would not open unless the bus was fully stopped and as soon as the vehicle moved off the doors would close. Imo that is a better system than the one nxwm have as this alleviates the (idiot factor).
I temper your bus ikarus buses had a similar system fitted.

Again, that means a driver can pull away with the doors open trapping someone as they automatically close as the bus pulls away, exactly what happened and why the HSE recommended against it

In my experience Tony the HSE will accept robust working practices and the training of them as an attempt to satisfy due diligence.

If you can prove that all drivers are specifically trained in awareness of the platform area, or fit extra blind spot mirrors such as those you get on a coach, then the HSE would likely be happy. I think the interlock system has been an over reaction which if that effective and proven, would have been adopted as law, yet wasn't.

Correct, but as this topic started with the question of why you see small operators driving off with the doors open under normal circumstances proves that those operators are not training their drivers in robust procedures. In the hot weather I saw several Sunny Travel buses being driven at normal road speed with passengers including young children on with the doors fully open. If one of those children ran up the front chasing something they had dropped I doubt Sunny Travel would still be on the road much longer. I am also fairly certain that despite the best training without the interlock some NX drivers would pull away as the doors were closing.

Take this scenario. Driver does everything properly, waits for boarding passengers to be safely sat or holding tight, checks all mirrors and blind spots including extra 'coach' blind spot mirror. Final check is always offside mirror to check for passing cars to see if it is safe to pull out, as he does he closes the doors and does a quick getaway to slot into a gap in traffic. While he is looking at the offside mirror someone appears out of a shop door level with the bus stop just 2m away on a narrow pavement completely out of view when driver checked mirrors and top half of body gets stuck in doors.

New mirror and training completely worthless! Training will always say wait until doors have closed before pulling away, interlock just makes sure that is followed.

Well there's only so many accidents you can prevent.

So what are you saying? you shouldn't prevent those that are preventable?

With all the interlocks in the world, the driver will always be looking in his offside mirror as he pulls away and there are plenty of other places a stray pedestrian can put themselves without the invitation of doors to get trapped in. What do you do about that?

Not relevant to the doors argument

This was one accident in how many bus movements every day? Most of us (touch wood) have managed to get through an entire career of professional driving without driving off with a passenger half off the bus. I would always be wanting to know how that driver managed to do it in the first place.

So did the management and the HSE, and the answer was he drove off with the doors closing.... because he could!

[Liverpool Street]

With all the training in all the world wouldn't eliminate it. Human nature is to cut corners and save time. We've all done it. Just wish the company can give more running time to do the job properly easily. Not that I care anymore

[andy]

But that is my exact point. There are lots of things a driver could do aren't there? Can you legislate against and adapt your vehicles for all of those too?

At some point you have to trust your professional driver to act in the way he/she is trained to do and has passed the relevant test to prove they can and will.

How long before an HSE exec decides that a 14 ton bus should not be allowed anywhere near a kerb 'incase' someone gets too close to it etc etc etc....until we have no buses atall.

I would also point out that the HSE has undergone a slight change of direction since these times and they are not quite as dictatorial these days as they were beginning to get.

[windy miller]

Mmm.This dodgy door lark has been around for some time unfortunately... (see Avin a Larf page 14, reply #206)..... well, someone liked it evidently! :) :) :) :)

[Trident 4194]

On 30852 he couldn't shut door and pulled off without his door shut right the way round halesowen island, that can't be safe especially around an island. When he got off the island he stopped and had to manually shut the door

[Liverpool Street]

On 30852 he couldn't shut door and pulled off without his door shut right the way round halesowen island, that can't be safe especially around an island. When he got off the island he stopped and had to manually shut the door

Probably safest thing in that situation. Saves blocking the island and I presume everyone was safe on board. Unless you were indeed a 6 year old on the floor looking for your Oreo that rolled away?

[Trident 4194]

Some tridents doors take an age to shut, how much time do you think they loose waiting for doors to close?

[Tony]

Some tridents doors take an age to shut, how much time do you think they loose waiting for doors to close?

None, because a driver should wait until they are shut anyway! They seem to take ages, but if you actually time them it is never more two seconds.

[Liverpool Street]

Some tridents doors take an age to shut, how much time do you think they loose waiting for doors to close?

None - to be perfectly honest. What'll lose time most is if people expect to be let on once the doors are closed. You all know my policy... Once starting to close - they'll never open again!

[Trident 4194]

That's not very nice ls lol. I understand once they've left, they've left but when they see yOurunning then drive off that frustrates me