Meriden

[Kevin]

Would just like to share my views on the routes around Meriden.

I say all the 900 journeys should run direct along the A45, and express in the Coventry area (not serving Allesley or Parkhill drive). That would make them quicker and more attractive for prospective travellers to/from Coventry.

Replace the stopping service and route through Allesley, Parkhill and Meriden itself with a half hourly frequency on the 82, with every other journey terminating short at Meriden.

Then from the Birmingham/Airport direction either a new all stops service or extension of the existing 900E journeys to Meriden and perhaps on to Balsall Common

[Tony]

Would just like to share my views on the routes around Meriden.

I say all the 900 journeys should run direct along the A45, and express in the Coventry area (not serving Allesley or Parkhill drive). That would make them quicker and more attractive for prospective travellers to/from Coventry.

Replace the stopping service and route through Allesley, Parkhill and Meriden itself with a half hourly frequency on the 82, with every other journey terminating short at Meriden.

Then from the Birmingham/Airport direction either a new all stops service or extension of the existing 900E journeys to Meriden and perhaps on to Balsall Common

So basically National Express should abandon all their customers who travel from Meriden to Coventry and hand them to Diamond?

[Kevin]

Nowhere in there did I imply that. Nx could quite happily register a service on the 82

[Tony]

That would cost an extra two buses, I doubt the extra passengers gained by missing Meriden out would come anywhere near covering the cost of that.

[Ossie]

I've travelled the 900 from Birmingham to Coventry three or four times this summer on Saturday mornings, and there's certainly been plenty of boarders for the service in Meriden, in both directions ........

I'd agree the 900 could do with speeding up, however, and I agree the mini diversions up to Parkhill and through Allesley could be cut out, being replaced by strengthened / diverted Coventry routes 7 and 10.

I also wonder if the number of stops within the Birmingham and Coventry boundaries couldn't be cut back to make the 900 more of an "Express" service.

Just my 2c worth ....

[Steveminor]

Having operated the 900 with Ampm I can tell you this is a terrible idea. The passenger figures from Meriden & Allesley both towards birmingham & coventry more than justify the service running through there. As for park hill estate, well nx pulled their 900 from there & we at Ampm took full advantage of that. Nx then returned to park hill.  So enough said there.
If I were to do anything I would maybe reduce the 900 running through these locations to hourly & then forum an x900 direct along the A45 on the opposite half hour, this would save 2 buses on the pvr

[Tony]

Having operated the 900 with Ampm I can tell you this is a terrible idea. The passenger figures from Meriden & Allesley both towards birmingham & coventry more than justify the service running through there. As for park hill estate, well nx pulled their 900 from there & we at Ampm took full advantage of that. Nx then returned to park hill.  So enough said there.
If I were to do anything I would maybe reduce the 900 running through these locations to hourly & then forum an x900 direct along the A45 on the opposite half hour, this would save 2 buses on the pvr

No way would it save 2 PVR. To do that a bus would need to get Birmingham to Coventry via meriden, and back to Birmingham fast or vice versa in 2 hours instead of the current 3 hours

[Kevin]

Well my apologies for suggesting ways to improve things for passengers.

Coming later this afternoon, more logical ideas ready to be shot down in flames because they cost too much in the short term

[Tony]

Well my apologies for suggesting ways to improve things for passengers.

Coming later this afternoon, more logical ideas ready to be shot down in flames because they cost too much in the short term

Unfortunately there are lots of services that could be put on which which be good for passengers, but the reality is they will never operate unless they stood a chance of making money within a couple of years of being started.

With NXWM's fare structure of maximum £4 return fare a long distance non-stop service has to have a high average passenger count to even break even. The obvious answer is to change the fare structure to one similar to what most interurban operators use of a rising fare scale for distance travelled, but that generally drives all passengers onto travelcard, the income of which is even less per journey than the £4 daysaver. If you then 'ban' travelcards' or introduce a more expensive one specifally for that route off-peak then becomes more expensive than the much faster train, and if you are only picking up at major points your service is aimed at similar passenger flows to the train.

For a full example of everthing I have just put above have a look at the history of the 901 service which was virtually a non-stop service Lichfield-Birmingham in the early 1990s.
It was carrying full loads on a lot of journies but still didn't make money. The old Birmingham & Black Country faresaver was not valid on it, forcing passengers onto the more expensive regional travelcard. Virtually all regular passengers went on to Direct Debit, dropping income again and a lot of off-peak were off-peak travelcard holders, To try and make it pay instead of just withdrawing it most journeys were diverted via Sutton Coldfield, instead of the A38 but even that didn't save it and in the end it had to go despite peak journeys being completely full

[Steveminor]

I would agree with Tony. It is unfortunately a side effect of the travel card &lower than average fares.
Other operators face an even harder time as most if not all passengers would use the nous pass which would reap even lower returns.
For a fast express service to work it needs to operate hand in hand with a slower less direct service as per my suggestion.
Looking at journey times pvr etc. If pushed it would save 2 buses (the way I would do it) but based on nx building in more recovery times etc probably just 1 bus. But still a saving.

[Kevin]

The thing I don't really understand about the whole "it costs money therefore not a good idea" arguement, is that how then do you justify the logic in suddenly introducing a night service every day on the 50? I know the 97 was/is just a trial funded by the airport but the 50 was near enough out of the blue. Extending the 241 along the same route as the 141 and a million and one other services in Quarry Bank is that really an economical use of a bus? As opposed to the other option of serving areas that now no longer have a bus?

[Tony]

The thing I don't really understand about the whole "it costs money therefore not a good idea" arguement, is that how then do you justify the logic in suddenly introducing a night service every day on the 50? I know the 97 was/is just a trial funded by the airport but the 50 was near enough out of the blue. Extending the 241 along the same route as the 141 and a million and one other services in Quarry Bank is that really an economical use of a bus? As opposed to the other option of serving areas that now no longer have a bus?

I'm not saying 'it costs money therefore it is not a good idea' All bus companies will do research before any new routes and estimate passenger flows that could be attracted to it. Nearly all completely new routes start off as loss makers, but very few companies can afford to run a loss making route for more than about two years, so passenger numbers have to be estimated to be making a profit by then. When you do something like take out some of your major revenue streams, like Meriden & Allesley and rely on people sitting on a bus for close on an hour, but bringing in only pence for each off them on average it makes the maths very hard to justify

[Stu]

If you want to travel quickly between Birmingham and Coventry, there's always the train, which will always be faster than the 900 bus.

For people in Meriden, the 82 doesn't run evenings or Sundays, and doesn't go to the airport.
Meriden doesn't have a train station, so for rail connections its either the 900 to Birmingham International, or the 82 to Hampton-In-Arden or Solihull.

Forgetting the other occasional bus services that operate there, the 82 (every hour) and the 900 (every half hour) are the two main services that pass through Meriden. Even on a quiet Saturday afternoon, as I experienced myself last weekend when I went there, I saw enough passengers getting on and off to justify the 900 service operating through there.

[Westy]

Well my apologies for suggesting ways to improve things for passengers.

Coming later this afternoon, more logical ideas ready to be shot down in flames because they cost too much in the short term

Unfortunately there are lots of services that could be put on which which be good for passengers, but the reality is they will never operate unless they stood a chance of making money within a couple of years of being started.

With NXWM's fare structure of maximum £4 return fare a long distance non-stop service has to have a high average passenger count to even break even. The obvious answer is to change the fare structure to one similar to what most interurban operators use of a rising fare scale for distance travelled, but that generally drives all passengers onto travelcard, the income of which is even less per journey than the £4 daysaver. If you then 'ban' travelcards' or introduce a more expensive one specifally for that route off-peak then becomes more expensive than the much faster train, and if you are only picking up at major points your service is aimed at similar passenger flows to the train.

For a full example of everthing I have just put above have a look at the history of the 901 service which was virtually a non-stop service Lichfield-Birmingham in the early 1990s.
It was carrying full loads on a lot of journies but still didn't make money. The old Birmingham & Black Country faresaver was not valid on it, forcing passengers onto the more expensive regional travelcard. Virtually all regular passengers went on to Direct Debit, dropping income again and a lot of off-peak were off-peak travelcard holders, To try and make it pay instead of just withdrawing it most journeys were diverted via Sutton Coldfield, instead of the A38 but even that didn't save it and in the end it had to go despite peak journeys being completely full

Lichfield to Walsall used to be a good route before deregulation.

At deregulation, Wmt tried linking that with the Lichfield to Birmingham service mentioned by Tony which didn't last long istr, then it was split again.

Was Midland Red North still running X12 at deregulation?

[Ben]

I'm having de ja vu of the other thread in regards of the 900.

Services in Meriden are being strengthened by Centro surely? Why would they allow National Express to alter a service and undermine this?

National Express listened to passengers wanting a better service through Allesley/Park Hill drive/Meriden and responded. I'm not sure why it'd be reversed now.




Just what if the 7 and 900 switched between Allesley and Coventry, then passengers would realise how much longer the 7 is and how lucky it is that the 900 takes the straight line...