First Bus - Potteries

[DVXXII]

There is/was a plan to relivery and brand buses for the Stafford service, which would tie in with an OmniCity being repainted. The 'new' 25 to Keele has been mooted as the next route to get the same treatment.

If the new Keele service is to be repainted next, I wonder if this is an indication that the 320XX ALX400 deckers are going to in fact get DDA mods and not be moved out. These buses have surely got to be the mainstay of this route when it gets split from the 3, unless the plan is to have the Geminis all on the 25 and the ALX400s on the 32/A

[barry619]

http://www.firstgroup.com/potteries/news-and-service-updates/planned-changes/changes-services-10-january-2015

Seems like some decent improvements being made to Potteries services! :D

Not really. Many of those trips dressed up as 'extra journeys' are actually buses heading to or from the depot that previously would have done so out of service. More cuts are on the cards for February, albeit not as severe as recent rounds.

As for Potteries' fleet, it has once again been stuffed full of buses which will all come up for replacement over a short period of time. That happened over the past few years as the policy of importing no end of cast-off junk dating from between 1997-2000 came home to roost. Bringing in 13-year old Solos, 14-year old 'deckers and E300s that in some cases are 12 years old (and all of which require repainting as a minimum) does not a good fleet make.

[DVXXII]

At least half a dozen of the 67631-41 batch have been left in depot today. The majority of the remaining Scania's are out with only 60069 and 65561 at the depot. 42354 also appears to be out in service.

[Ashley 60171]

42354 50296 60072 60171 60175 65567 confirmed withdrawn at end of service last night and are now in storage at Newcastle garage.

[PM]

Not really. Many of those trips dressed up as 'extra journeys' are actually buses heading to or from the depot that previously would have done so out of service. More cuts are on the cards for February, albeit not as severe as recent rounds.

As for Potteries' fleet, it has once again been stuffed full of buses which will all come up for replacement over a short period of time. That happened over the past few years as the policy of importing no end of cast-off junk dating from between 1997-2000 came home to roost. Bringing in 13-year old Solos, 14-year old 'deckers and E300s that in some cases are 12 years old (and all of which require repainting as a minimum) does not a good fleet make.

I agree about loading a fleet with vehicles all of a similar age profile being a bad idea, it's better to have a managed fleet replacement policy like NX are doing or the large batch of 2003-2005 buses being slowly but surely split up at Worcester through new investment so the whole fleet doesn't become unreliable and old together. I'd think the E300's and Solos have 5 years' service left in them at the maximum, that's assuming 17/8 year service lives which is reasonable. It'll be interesting to see what if any future service cuts are, D and G seem a fairly formidable competitive force now, with a modern and pretty smart fleet. I wonder if they'll consider launching any further commercial routes or stepping into gaps created by First withdrawals.

[DVXXII]

At AG depot;
42354 back in position in withdrawn corner of the yard next to 40009. 41522 has moved from here - presumably now being worked on inside one of the engineering garages. 41540 in all over advert has spent a significant time in the depot over the last week, so is presumably suffering from some fault. In the other corner of the depot 66309(?) remains in place it has occupied for a number of weeks now. Behind this is 67638 with VOR sticker in windscreen, obviously with some fault.
As mentioned by Ashley, all the non DDA Scania's have gone from AG to NE for storage - non are visibly on site at AG.

With regards to D&G, they seem to be taking a more measured approach to building their business in Stoke than has been taken by competitors to First in the past here. Arriva (and others before them including Wardle,Bakers,old D&G Etc) seemed to go about competing with First more aggressively with varying levels of success on different corridors. This, however, has led ultimately in all cases to their demise or sale. On the other hand, D&G have retained only the routes acquired from Arriva/Bakers etc which were proving a success and expanded using Staffs CC contracts and First route abandonments in the main. This is slowly allowing them to become a powerful force in the Stoke area.
This said, it wouldn't surprise me if D&G were to 'attack' one or more of First's corridors in the not too distant future. First are clearly much less well equipped to defend a corridor than they were, say, 5 years ago (ie when they suffocated Bakers attempt to compete on the Hanley - Bentilee Routes) and I'm sure this will not have escaped D&G managements attention.

[PM]

At AG depot;
42354 back in position in withdrawn corner of the yard next to 40009. 41522 has moved from here - presumably now being worked on inside one of the engineering garages. 41540 in all over advert has spent a significant time in the depot over the last week, so is presumably suffering from some fault. In the other corner of the depot 66309(?) remains in place it has occupied for a number of weeks now. Behind this is 67638 with VOR sticker in windscreen, obviously with some fault.
As mentioned by Ashley, all the non DDA Scania's have gone from AG to NE for storage - non are visibly on site at AG.

With regards to D&G, they seem to be taking a more measured approach to building their business in Stoke than has been taken by competitors to First in the past here. Arriva (and others before them including Wardle,Bakers,old D&G Etc) seemed to go about competing with First more aggressively with varying levels of success on different corridors. This, however, has led ultimately in all cases to their demise or sale. On the other hand, D&G have retained only the routes acquired from Arriva/Bakers etc which were proving a success and expanded using Staffs CC contracts and First route abandonments in the main. This is slowly allowing them to become a powerful force in the Stoke area.
This said, it wouldn't surprise me if D&G were to 'attack' one or more of First's corridors in the not too distant future. First are clearly much less well equipped to defend a corridor than they were, say, 5 years ago (ie when they suffocated Bakers attempt to compete on the Hanley - Bentilee Routes) and I'm sure this will not have escaped D&G managements attention.

Interesting fleet observations, apparently Newcastle is rammed full of non DDA buses. You'd think the priority will now be to clear the site and sell the buses for scrap. Big piles of buses have appeared at several garages across First, in particular Scotland fleets and Muller Road. D & G seem to be faring better in Stoke than Cheshire where GHA have tended to just commercialise routes they lose on tender. It'd be good to see them further expand by acquiring Scraggs, few decent routes there. They've thinned back to what is actually viable with good buses. I reckon they're sure to try to expand further onto one of First's busier corridors or why not have a crack at Arriva Stafford? Their presence in Stafford is pretty high now.

[Ashley 60171]

Interesting fleet observations, apparently Newcastle is rammed full of non DDA buses. You'd think the priority will now be to clear the site and sell the buses for scrap. Big piles of buses have appeared at several garages across First, in particular Scotland fleets and Muller Road. D & G seem to be faring better in Stoke than Cheshire where GHA have tended to just commercialise routes they lose on tender. It'd be good to see them further expand by acquiring Scraggs, few decent routes there. They've thinned back to what is actually viable with good buses. I reckon they're sure to try to expand further onto one of First's busier corridors or why not have a crack at Arriva Stafford? Their presence in Stafford is pretty high now.

If its anything like Muller Road then Newcastle will never become anything even though I'm sure the housing people are snapping at their heels. Selling off all that you could probably buy a couple of Streetlites but anyway.

Well D&G have taken on Copelands service work and I could imagine Scraggs giving up as well. D&G have got an increasing and loyal customer base on The Orange One. So I do think this year we will see some Stokie expansion that isn't just mopping up. As for Crewe, the potential thorn in their side is Routemaster Buses who are also taking on Arriva again and have got their fleet age right down apart from 2 Leyland Olympians.

[PM]

If its anything like Muller Road then Newcastle will never become anything even though I'm sure the housing people are snapping at their heels. Selling off all that you could probably buy a couple of Streetlites but anyway.

Well D&G have taken on Copelands service work and I could imagine Scraggs giving up as well. D&G have got an increasing and loyal customer base on The Orange One. So I do think this year we will see some Stokie expansion that isn't just mopping up. As for Crewe, the potential thorn in their side is Routemaster Buses who are also taking on Arriva again and have got their fleet age right down apart from 2 Leyland Olympians.

Routemaster Buses are an interesting one, they're taking on the 84 (Crewe to Chester) after Arriva announced they're cutting back. However, they withdrew registration on the 8 once D and G also registered, which suggests they're not intent on taking on D and G, mostly Arriva and D and G also making the most of Arriva's cuts up there. I think it's only a matter of time before one or other of them decide to take on Arriva's 6, their last true Crewe town route!

[Ashley 60171]

Routemaster Buses are an interesting one, they're taking on the 84 (Crewe to Chester) after Arriva announced they're cutting back. However, they withdrew registration on the 8 once D and G also registered, which suggests they're not intent on taking on D and G, mostly Arriva and D and G also making the most of Arriva's cuts up there. I think it's only a matter of time before one or other of them decide to take on Arriva's 6, their last true Crewe town route!

Initially I had heard they were competing against Arriva on the 84. Using former Arriva deckers. But thanks for pointing that out.

Admittedly I've never been to Crewe properly. But as you say if Arriva only have one local service there then I don't think it would be that long before they also give it up. I do plan to try the new 84 to get the temporary loaned vehicles in the book before the DW's come so I'll have a more intelligent answer by then.

[Bob]

Interesting fleet observations, apparently Newcastle is rammed full of non DDA buses. You'd think the priority will now be to clear the site and sell the buses for scrap. Big piles of buses have appeared at several garages across First, in particular Scotland fleets and Muller Road. D & G seem to be faring better in Stoke than Cheshire where GHA have tended to just commercialise routes they lose on tender. It'd be good to see them further expand by acquiring Scraggs, few decent routes there. They've thinned back to what is actually viable with good buses. I reckon they're sure to try to expand further onto one of First's busier corridors or why not have a crack at Arriva Stafford? Their presence in Stafford is pretty high now.

I can't imagine there's a lot of scope in Stafford to be fair. In midland red days it was a hugely profitable garage, christ knows what's happened there under Arriva. Crap old buses on largely quiet routes. I'd think the only vaguely profitable ones are the Cannock Lichfield and Telford routes all of which are run from other garages....What could D & G add to Stafford?

[DVXXII]

Whatever the fault was with 67638 it has now been rectified, as I have seen it out today on the 1/2 circuit

[T840MAK]

Not even been here half an hour yet, observations so far:

67638 - 1/2/22/72
Two Streetlites on 3s
42893 - 6/6A vice Streetlite

Hanley bus station was also empty when I got there. Never seen it so quiet.

[T840MAK]

Early evening update:

66309 now missing from AG depot, 60316/317 now in its place.
Heavily stripped Solo in the dead corner next to a Barbie liveried Caetano Dart - looked to be Olympia liveried from the back

Unusual / noteworthy / weird / someone's broken the allocations:
41501 53405 63096(?) 63100 63172 65041 65042 - 3/4/4A (vice Cherry brand Volvo/Scania)
67602 - 97 (not sure what this is meant to be but I'm not sure it's supposed to be an E300)
42893 66305 - 6/6A (vice Streetlite)
42894 - 32 (vice Gemini)
37156 - 18 (vice OmniCity)
Some Solos and 67635 on 7/7A/8/8A/98/99 but I'm not sure whether this is normal or not

Think that's all, I'll amend this post if I find anything else of interest or I think of anything I've missed.

[DVXXII]

Hi Ashley
The Caetano next to 40009 is 42354. In addition to your observations I have seen 42892 on the 6/26 circuit today. Don't know why allocations are so shot since the new year. The streetlites very rarely ventured off the 6/6A/26 but they have been seen off route on a number of occasions this last week.