First Bus - Potteries

[winston]

I certainly read Firstgroup news avidly.despite,or perhaps because of,their fluctuations I find Firstgroup to be far more interesting than NXWM with their diet of unbroken ADC buses and never ending madcap branding.
At present.First,Arriva and Stagecoach carry far more to excite the real bus enthusiast than the mere bus spotters who throng round NX.

@arrifirststage as your interests clearly lie elsewhere, maybe being a member of a 'West Midlands Buses' forum isn't for you, especially when the bulk of content centres around NX the dominant operator in the area. First & Stagecoach are barely represented within the West Midlands, hence the lack of posts / interest.

If you're not happy with the content of this forum, don't read it!

[arrifirststage]

Stagecoach at the moment seem to be the only ones who are looking to actually grow in this country.

I am sure you are right ,but this is probably to to the existing circumstances in the industry.
First cannot expand due to financial constrictions......not the fault of the present management.It is amazing to reflect that the old hierarchy left the Company in such a poor state,yet one still received a knighthood....shows the worthlessness of these honours.
Arriva are not a British Company so God only knows how their mind works,GoAhead seem to be having troubles of their own,especially in the North East....and NX seem to have a what we have we hold and bugger any expansion which would not generate margins as great as in the Midlands.
Smaller operators like Rotala will eventually find they have bitten off more than they can chew and even the publicists and marketing darlings of Wellglade have gone very quiet.
This presents Stagecoach with the opportunity to get things probably on the cheap......North Devon and Plymouth spring to mind.......and good luck to them,they have been consistently well managed.
Incidentally,with the reduction in local authority budgets,are we nearing the time when all subsidies will be withdrawn?

[winston]

I am sure you are right ,but this is probably to to the existing circumstances in the industry.
First cannot expand due to financial constrictions......not the fault of the present management.It is amazing to reflect that the old hierarchy left the Company in such a poor state,yet one still received a knighthood....shows the worthlessness of these honours.
Arriva are not a British Company so God only knows how their mind works,GoAhead seem to be having troubles of their own,especially in the North East....and NX seem to have a what we have we hold and bugger any expansion which would not generate margins as great as in the Midlands.
Smaller operators like Rotala will eventually find they have bitten off more than they can chew and even the publicists and marketing darlings of Wellglade have gone very quiet.
This presents Stagecoach with the opportunity to get things probably on the cheap......North Devon and Plymouth spring to mind.......and good luck to them,they have been consistently well managed.
Incidentally,with the reduction in local authority budgets,are we nearing the time when all subsidies will be withdrawn?

While a lot First Group issues can be blamed on the previous management, they can't use that excuse that ever. I believe the current management should have taken far more decisive steps by now. They should never have sold off profitable UK bus operations such as Wigan & London (which was a good source of midlife buses) and left heavily loss making operations such as FSE to soldier on draining any growth at the large subsidaries. The £100 million raised barely put a dent in group debt, I still think they should have sold off Greyhound (non core) & left the biggest subsidaries UK bus & Student intact.

Arriva have been loosing a large number of Tfl contracts and appear to being attacked heavily by small independents at Midlands.
NX are expanding just not really in the UK, NX are focusing expansion on contract wins rather than acquisitions & prioritising reducing group debt further. German Rail / Malta / Bahrain & Morocco rings any bells.... The UK bus market is mature, with fewer opportunities for expansion on scale

[arrifirststage]

While a lot First Group issues can be blamed on the previous management, they can't use that excuse that ever. I believe the current management should have taken far more decisive steps by now. They should never have sold off profitable UK bus operations such as Wigan & London (which was a good source of midlife buses) and left heavily loss making operations such as FSE to soldier on draining any growth at the large subsidaries. The £100 million raised barely put a dent in group debt, I still think they should have sold off Greyhound (non core) & left the biggest subsidaries UK bus & Student intact.

Arriva have been loosing a large number of Tfl contracts and appear to being attacked heavily by small independents at Midlands.
NX are expanding just not really in the UK, NX are focusing expansion on contract wins rather than acquisitions & prioritising reducing group debt further. German Rail / Malta / Bahrain & Morocco rings any bells.... The UK bus market is mature, with fewer opportunities for expansion on scale

Do you have any views on the likelihood or otherwise of ALL subsidies being withdrawn due to io cal authority monies being squeezed?
Some Counties,I think probably Shropshire,are moving or have already moved,in that direction.

[winston]

Do you have any views on the likelihood or otherwise of ALL subsidies being withdrawn due to io cal authority monies being squeezed?
Some Counties,I think probably Shropshire,are moving or have already moved,in that direction.

I don't see how local authorities could ever remove ALL subsidies for services, especially where there are no alternatives if they didn't operate. I expect there to be further year on year transport budget cuts for subsidised services until such time that local authority budgets are no longer cut.

[barry619]

First may be making cuts but they're not all bad and the fleet is still very much a mixed bag, soon to change. Stagecoach and Arriva are similarly as interesting. But I can't jump on the MMC hype yet.

First is a world of contrasts: you have the basket cases such as Potteries and Devon, the bits that seem to perform well, are growing and have reasonable fleets such as Bristol, Leeds and Manchester, and then there are also areas such as East Anglia and Sheffield, where management is working very hard and investing lots of time and money to improve things.

There are actually some highly-competent busmen at First: James Freeman, Marc Reddy, and dare I say it Nigel Eggleton, among others, and I am sure that Freeman and Reddy, at least, will go to the top at some point. The big challenge First has is keeping hold of its younger talent and not allowing them to be attracted elsewhere, either within the bus industry or outside it.

[4006]

Is there an unusual workings thread for 1st potteries?

[domino.99]

Is there an unusual workings thread for 1st potteries?

@4006 theres just a blanket one for First bus in general mate :)

[4006]

@4006 theres just a blanket one for First bus in general mate :)

Cheers Dom is this the general?

Anyways if anyone interested 32635 on the 10 in Stafford today.

[T840MAK]

Cheers Dom is this the general?

Anyways if anyone interested 32635 on the 10 in Stafford today.

Nothing unusual about this - there's often a couple of Geminis on the 10

[barry619]

There are at least two duties on Saturdays which interwork between the 32A (which requires Geminins) and the 10s, hence the common appearance of DDs in Stafford on Saturdays. When Newcastle closes I imagine that B7TLs will become even more common on the 10s.

[T840MAK]

40010 has gone for scrap, seen behind a PVS wrecker up in Yorkshire.

[Ashley 60171]

40026 40027 40805 withdrawn
40173 earmarked for preservation by an AG driver upon withdrawal

63096 - 63100 Manchester to Potteries

[T840MAK]

Apparently a clear out of scrap vehicles has happened, not sure how true that is but Ultralow 61237 S681BFS was also taken to the scrapman in Barnsley last week.

[Cheese]

40026 40027 40805 withdrawn
40173 earmarked for preservation by an AG driver upon withdrawal

63096 - 63100 Manchester to Potteries

Is 63097 still on loan to Kernow?  It was up until very recently unless it has come back.