The last 4M arriving at Merry Hill

[sonic84]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

[PM]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

[winston]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than matching Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

[PM]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

[winston]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

It's already been running some time, so they must do okay off it? I still think NX should consider extending it or even potentially do the Hayley Green loop in the opposite direction to Diamond which would cover some of the stops that the 142 previously served from Feb onwards

[PM]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

It's already been running some time, so they must do okay off it? I still think NX should consider extending it or even potentially do the Hayley Green loop in the opposite direction to Diamond which would cover some of the stops that the 142 previously served from Feb onwards

I think the walsall-blackheath section must subsidise the rest of the route...

Or diamond could introduce a Halesowen circular, serving the Hayley Green loop and the old 142 stops, at a fairly decent frequency like the 401e-short routes with fast turnaround

[winston]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

It's already been running some time, so they must do okay off it? I still think NX should consider extending it or even potentially do the Hayley Green loop in the opposite direction to Diamond which would cover some of the stops that the 142 previously served from Feb onwards

I think the walsall-blackheath section must subsidise the rest of the route...

Or diamond could introduce a Halesowen circular, serving the Hayley Green loop and the old 142 stops, at a fairly decent frequency like the 401e-short routes with fast turnaround

A number it the 006  :P

They had one of those......

[PM]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

It's already been running some time, so they must do okay off it? I still think NX should consider extending it or even potentially do the Hayley Green loop in the opposite direction to Diamond which would cover some of the stops that the 142 previously served from Feb onwards

I think the walsall-blackheath section must subsidise the rest of the route...

Or diamond could introduce a Halesowen circular, serving the Hayley Green loop and the old 142 stops, at a fairly decent frequency like the 401e-short routes with fast turnaround

A number it the 006  :P

They had one of those......

Anyone any idea why it failed when the Hayley Green section of the 4H seems to do well?

[winston]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

It's already been running some time, so they must do okay off it? I still think NX should consider extending it or even potentially do the Hayley Green loop in the opposite direction to Diamond which would cover some of the stops that the 142 previously served from Feb onwards

I think the walsall-blackheath section must subsidise the rest of the route...

Or diamond could introduce a Halesowen circular, serving the Hayley Green loop and the old 142 stops, at a fairly decent frequency like the 401e-short routes with fast turnaround

A number it the 006  :P

They had one of those......

Anyone any idea why it failed when the Hayley Green section of the 4H seems to do well?

It seemed busy enough when operated by Ludlows, probably mainly concessionary passes though & maybe it didn't pay with Diamond's larger overheads

[sonic84]

If the 4M had been every half hour I think they would have had a better chance.  I don't think they were able to compete considering that NXWM service was double the frequency.  Out of interest, what are NXWM's loadings like on the 4H?

The 300/310 is one corridor which i don't think should have been withdrawn.  From memory BCC were on the 310 for quite some time.

I also thought the 217 used to be well used, but I know they started playing around with the route, diverting it via Lion Farm between Oldbury and Blackheath in the later years.  Did it get curtailed to run to Blackheath only at one point?

Finally, the 007 running Merry Hill - Bromsgrove is another service which I would have liked Diamond to have stuck at commercially.  If the reliability issues with the buses hadn't have been an issue, I'm pretty sure it would have been used.  I used to use Ludlow's 007 frequently, and bar the last placement bus from Bromsgrove to Halesowen at 17:25, the loadings always seemed quite healthy.

I couldn't agree more. Diamond compete best when frequencies are high eg 4/4H/301 and less well on services like the 50 and 16... NX loadings on the 4H are pretty poor after Blackheath, compared to Diamond.

The 202 still seems to do ok but I agree a shame the 007 was withdrawn commercially.

I think part of the problem with NX's 4H is that it terminates at Halesowen rather than match Diamond's 4H with the Hayley Green loop

Precisely and the Hayley Green loop on the 4H is a pretty decent moneyspinner for diamond I reckon. Plus the diamond 4H is essentially the old 417 and that always seemed to do ok. I wonder how long NXWM will keep the 4H for though...

It's already been running some time, so they must do okay off it? I still think NX should consider extending it or even potentially do the Hayley Green loop in the opposite direction to Diamond which would cover some of the stops that the 142 previously served from Feb onwards

I think the walsall-blackheath section must subsidise the rest of the route...

Or diamond could introduce a Halesowen circular, serving the Hayley Green loop and the old 142 stops, at a fairly decent frequency like the 401e-short routes with fast turnaround

A number it the 006  :P

They had one of those......

Anyone any idea why it failed when the Hayley Green section of the 4H seems to do well?

It seemed busy enough when operated by Ludlows, probably mainly concessionary passes though & maybe it didn't pay with Diamond's larger overheads

I agree with that. The 006 used to carry very healthy loadings when operated by Ludlows. Does anyone know if the 006 was inter worked with the 230 when Diamond took over the network?

Green Bus also tried the 006 remember and failed but that could be down to passengers having found alternative transport methods (244?)

[Kevin]

Just throwing it out there, but....
NX ain't doing too well on the 4H and Diamond are, to me points to the fact that it always used to be a Diamond (ok, Ludlows) route, and so people along there would prefer them to the "newcomer".
And vice-versa on the 4M.

Personally I'd say that now Diamond have admitted defeat with the 4M, perhaps NX should do the same with the 4H and use the buses for increased frequency on the 4M?

[PM]

Just throwing it out there, but....
NX ain't doing too well on the 4H and Diamond are, to me points to the fact that it always used to be a Diamond (ok, Ludlows) route, and so people along there would prefer them to the "newcomer".
And vice-versa on the 4M.

Personally I'd say that now Diamond have admitted defeat with the 4M, perhaps NX should do the same with the 4H and use the buses for increased frequency on the 4M?

Logically what you say makes a lot of sense but in the past, diamond and nx have never been able to co-operate on anything before so I don't see this changing. Plus NX can cross subsidise it if it is loss making and recently at least, NX have never backed down on a route with competition.

[Tony]

Just throwing it out there, but....
NX ain't doing too well on the 4H and Diamond are, to me points to the fact that it always used to be a Diamond (ok, Ludlows) route, and so people along there would prefer them to the "newcomer".
And vice-versa on the 4M.

Personally I'd say that now Diamond have admitted defeat with the 4M, perhaps NX should do the same with the 4H and use the buses for increased frequency on the 4M?

Logically what you say makes a lot of sense but in the past, diamond and nx have never been able to co-operate on anything before so I don't see this changing. Plus NX can cross subsidise it if it is loss making and recently at least, NX have never backed down on a route with competition.

They have - The 530!