Preserved Buses

[Stevo]

London specified automatics on most of its deliveries from the 1950s, so the Swifts / Merlins and the DMS Fleetlines had that feature - you just left the gear lever in top and the bus would start in second and change up and down automatically. Now with a Fleetline the worst thing you can do to the transmission is start in second and change gear with the accelerator pedal held down, but that's exactly what LTs vehicles were designed to do. Then they wondered why the gearboxes only lasted a year! The first thing new operators of DMS Fleetlines did was to remove the automatic facility - WMPTE included.

There were some Fleetlines in the Midlands like that - Coventry had some. And the first three Ailsas, 4547-4529, changed automatically.

You couldn't really do it with a National, due to the engine characteristics. London Nationals had a version of the G2 box which had a throttle dip to close the throttle automatically when changing gear, as did Titans and LT Olympians (and GMPTE Atlanteans) but that form of automatic was much better.

Virtually no Lynxes had British gearboxes - WMPTE 1061 - 1066 were unusual in having a Leyland four-speed auto which was virtually unique to them and was not put into production. They were later converted to standard ZF boxes.

[Bob]

Did the automatic fleet lines sound different to the standard product?  Ie did they not have the SCG whine ( that was even louder in VRs) that pte fleetlines and nbc REs had?

[Stevo]

All Fleetlines had a special version of the Daimatic gearbox where the output shaft came out at the same end as the input shaft, but at right angles to it - it is the right-angle drive that whines in a Fleetline, not the gearbox proper, which is nearly inaudible. Automatics had the same box and sounded the same - London DMSs just started in second and changed up on full throttle. The CAV automatic, fitted to 3905 (I think) and one of two others had a throttle dip that closed the throttle for a smooth change - just like the Titan and others. Trouble was it soon went out of adjustment and the gearbox would go into neutral with the throttle wide open, or the opposite would happen - the throttle would close with the gear still engaged, causing a jerk backwards. Happy days! The CAVs were soon removed.

[don]

Automatics had the same box and sounded the same - London DMSs just started in second and changed up on full throttle.

No wonder they broke down so often!!

[don]

Automatics had the same box and sounded the same - London DMSs just started in second and changed up on full throttle.

Ah London Transport - great in many ways, and loved by most - but fancy re-designing elements of a highly successful vehicle thereby making them grossly unreliable!! Not the only example IIRC - didn't they have a batch of AEC Reliances which they re-designed - which also became grossly unreliable (RC class)?

I know they had to do a lot to get the unions to allow people to drive their buses (such as raising the driver position of a Fleetline so the driver was almost at horse bus level - touching the lower deck ceiling almost) - I'm surprised they didn't have to fit them with offside sliding doors!! But much of the tinkering seemed to be engineering and beaurocracy led.

There must have been a vast amount of public money wasted in those far off days!

[John]

Midland Red Leopard 'JHA 234L' was on the Chester Road this morning. Came up to Orphanage Rd Island, and did a U-turn back towards the Bagot. It then parked up opposite Pype Hayes Park

[D10]

The new edition of Bus and Coach Preservation magazine has features on Midland Red S22 5905 and WMT Metrobus 3057 if any one is interested. :)

[Stuharris 6360]

The new edition of Bus and Coach Preservation magazine has features on Midland Red S22 5905 and WMT Metrobus 3057 if any one is interested. :)

Was the S22 that mix between a bus & a coach? Sure we had 5908 & 5911 at Stourbridge.

[Roy]

Was the S22 that mix between a bus & a coach? Sure we had 5908 & 5911 at Stourbridge.

You are right - they were dual-purpose vehicles.

According to the website http://midlandred.net/history/wmpte.shtml, 5908 was transferred from Midland Red to WMPTE in December 1973 at Harts Hill, transferred to Stourbridge in June 1976 and withdrawn in June 1978.  5911 was transferred in 1973 at Stourbridge and was withdrawn from there in April 1979.  5910 was also at Stourbridge in December 1973 and was withdrawn in April 1979.

This site has some good stuff for those of us who can remember the 1970's.

[Trident 4609]

West Bromwich Corporation Daimler CVG5 (Number-Plate FEA 156) passed me on the Cannock Rd near the Scotlands this morning.

[andrew1991]

West Bromwich Corporation Daimler CVG5 (Number-Plate FEA 156) passed me on the Cannock Rd near the Scotlands this morning.

Passed me on stafford road by falkland street coach park at around 9:10am with Dudley.on the side destination

[Stuharris 6360]

Was the S22 that mix between a bus & a coach? Sure we had 5908 & 5911 at Stourbridge.

You are right - they were dual-purpose vehicles.

According to the website http://midlandred.net/history/wmpte.shtml, 5908 was transferred from Midland Red to WMPTE in December 1973 at Harts Hill, transferred to Stourbridge in June 1976 and withdrawn in June 1978.  5911 was transferred in 1973 at Stourbridge and was withdrawn from there in April 1979.  5910 was also at Stourbridge in December 1973 and was withdrawn in April 1979.

This site has some good stuff for those of us who can remember the 1970's.

Thanks Roy, that is a brilliant site and brings back some memories, have to say the s22s & s23s looked better in Midland Red livery, the WMPTE livery din't suit them and to me made them look shabby!

[horsencart]

Towards the end of their life the Midland Red  and WMPTE looked shabby these are mainly Stourbridge buses
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dofartshavelumps/13129383873/in/set-72157631077349924 

[Trident 4609]

My grandad told me that a double decker in "West Bromwich Corporation Colours" past him on the Cannock Rd in Wolverhampton at the weekend

[Rob H]

A Red double decker passed through Sheldon about 10-15 minutes ago heading towards Birmingham couldn't tell which type of vehicle it was or if it had any other colour besides the red as I seen it from my front door.