London Buses.

[Mike K]

I think the BYD double decker has pushed bus design back by 30 years. I can imagine just how people felt when the DMS was introduced afters years of curves and stylish designs.

I agree. Truly hideous. The sort of vehicle styling that wouldn't look out of place in India.

[barry619]

I agree. Truly hideous. The sort of vehicle styling that wouldn't look out of place in India.

Hardly surprising though is it? The various grizzling about what it looks like is the (sadly normal) missing of the point by certain members of the enthusiast fraternity. The five for London are concept vehicles, they are not production models. They will exist to demonstrate that BYD has (or has not, as the case may be) the technology to produce an electric double-decker chassis which will last the course, and nothing more. What they look like is meaningless. Why would anyone with any kind of business head invest serious money into the styling of a bus which is just a proof-of-concept vehicle and will number only five units?

Any production examples will be bodied by ADL. The five Chinese-bodied examples will do a few years' work and then one will end up in the LT Museum Collection and the other four will be scrapped, I am sure. The build quality of the body will see to that.

[Mike K]

I fully take your point about these being pre production models and for the purposes of evaluation, yes, aesthetics are to a large extent irrelevant. But styling as dreadful and dated as that is bound to generate comment, and not just amongst the enthusiast community. People are merely passing comment on the looks of these first models, not considering the wider picture.

They're still friggin' ugly.

[JoNi]

A windscreen that has throwbacks to the Mancunian!

[Stuharris 6360]

Lets hope Zac Goldsmith doesn't become Mayor of London

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-zac-goldsmith-scrap-bus-6868407

[Stu]

Lets hope Zac Goldsmith doesn't become Mayor of London

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-zac-goldsmith-scrap-bus-6868407

Yeah great, lets encourage more people to buy electric cars because then we'll end up with even more cars gridlocking the roads! Nice idea!  :D

[John]

Is it known what route the Enviro400H City's are for with Arriva?

[busfan2847]

78 (Nunhead–Bermondsey–Aldgate–Shoreditch)

[John]

78 (Nunhead–Bermondsey–Aldgate–Shoreditch)

Great. Thanks @busfan2847

[barry619]

Lets hope Zac Goldsmith doesn't become Mayor of London

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-zac-goldsmith-scrap-bus-6868407

That is potentially one of the most idiotic, ill-thought out plans from an out-of-touch public schoolboy politician imaginable.

[Tony]

I wonder how good the London Franchising system will be without TfL's £700m subsidy?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/25/spending-review-transport-deepest-budget-cut?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook

[Dutsey]

I wonder how good the London Franchising system will be without TfL's £700m subsidy?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/25/spending-review-transport-deepest-budget-cut?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook

Very bad decision IMHO, surely this will drive more car usage and even more crowded roads in London.

[PM]

I wonder how good the London Franchising system will be without TfL's £700m subsidy?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/25/spending-review-transport-deepest-budget-cut?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook

Very, very interesting indeed! Bizarre that transport has seen such big cuts in this statement. It brings into question how long BSOG and the Free Travel Scheme have got left, mind you, both have been cut back and back and back, better to just scrap both so bus operators are immune from further cuts/independent so politicians can't make the case for re-regulation. It begs the question where the money would ever come from to re-regulate, plus recompensate operators for commercial losses as a direct consequence! By doing so, buses also become more influenced by local budgets and politics which is swings and roundabouts, a commercial or parternship area eg WM is far more immune from this!

I'd like to think it was the beginning of the end for London franchising or at least it increases TfL efficiency, no messing about with gimmicks now. I reckon it'd be simpler and cheaper to allow operators to run whatever they feel is viable without any subsidy/involvement at all, then tender out on net cost the (very few!) bits operators wouldn't want. I've always thought London's transport system is good but it seems bureaucratic and lacking any commercial incentive, I'd argue Edinburgh/Manchester/Birmingham/other large areas have the same quality as London, maybe buses not as new but quality improved in other areas, eg leather seats/wifi/change given/more seating than on London buses you just don't get in London. This is also being delivered at a fraction of the cost...

The future for transport is never ever franchising or subsidies, it's using commercial knowledge, innovation and knowledge of what passengers want to deliver high quality, commercial services free from interference, tailored to demand that exists out there on the street not on a civil servant's modelled system of transport. Cutting subsidies helps efficiency and might enable an accurate comparison to be made between regulated and deregulated when both are actually on the same, more level field of what money they get.

[barry619]

I reckon it'd be simpler and cheaper to allow operators to run whatever they feel is viable without any subsidy/involvement at all, then tender out on net cost the (very few!) bits operators wouldn't want.

The reason that this has not happened, nor will ever happen, is that it would trigger a bunfight which would make the worst competitive excesses of the post-deregulation years look tame.

[JoNi]

A lot money could be saved if TfLs slavish dictats that buses start and finish from both ends at the same time, which results in buses and their drivers undertaking totally pointless journeys first thing in the morning and late at night when negligible numbers of passengers are carried. Brought to my attention by drivers who feel they are regularly wasting their time.