4799

[BU07 LGO]

Just seen this, I'd have thought drivers would have known to begin with

http://m.travel.aol.co.uk/2013/11/05/bus-drivers-outraged-using-vehicle-teen-stabbed-death-birmingham/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cukt3%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D220818

[trident4370]

I'm not too sure about that article, The driver on the 84 (When 4799 sneaked onto there) actually said to me he already knew why the bus was famous, he said it was famous at YW and said the only issue he had with driving it was that he preferred his scania's, I also know of a 50 driver who says 4799 is his favourite bus. I do sympathise with people involved in the original incident but I think that article is just making something of nothing and honestly I think it is in bad taste.

[richie]

It is sad but it is a new bus and not the only bus to be involved in a fatal incident we have to be realistic that the vehicle wouldn't be withdrawn and scrapped. It was more than hosed down as the article claims! I would say the identity was changed out of respect of family and friends of the young girl. Which is what must be remembered that a young girl lost her life and this article focuses on a small number of staff who are outraged, I think they should re adjust their priorities. Most will not know its past not that it's hidden just that to many who drive them daily it is just another bus.

[nitromatt1]

Not long after it entered service at YW, I had a chat with a YW driver who was in the middle of a shift driving it on the 50, he said it was his favourite bus at the garage "compared to the **** we have" and due to it being smoother and a bit faster than the older Enviros.

[nitromatt1]

It is sad but it is a new bus and not the only bus to be involved in a fatal incident we have to be realistic that the vehicle wouldn't be withdrawn and scrapped. It was more than hosed down as the article claims! I would say the identity was changed out of respect of family and friends of the young girl. Which is what must be remembered that a young girl lost her life and this article focuses on a small number of staff who are outraged, I think they should re adjust their priorities. Most will not know its past not that it's hidden just that to many who drive them daily it is just another bus.

I seem to remember one of the Enviros killing someone on the Hagley Road quite a long time ago, may have been 4824

[Tony]

The company knew this story was coming.  The outrage bit is complete rubbish. 
Now a question for the press.  Has anyone ever died in their industry.  Crushed in an old style printing press?
Was that valuable asset then scrapped?

[Stuharris 6360]

The company knew this story was coming.  The outrage bit is complete rubbish. 
Now a question for the press.  Has anyone ever died in their industry.  Crushed in an old style printing press?
Was that valuable asset then scrapped?

It is totally stupid. What happened that morning had nothing to do with National Express, so what are they supposed to do, scrap a nearly new bus just to satisfy people. It was obvious it couldn't continue to be used at Pensnett, so it had to move, so it was refurbished and had it reg and fleet number change to avoid distress to everyone concerned in the sad events.

It leads to the question, does NE have to get rid of every bus involved in an accident due to the fact it may cause distress. Nobody at PE is moaning about 4135 due to its sad past.

[winston]

The company knew this story was coming.  The outrage bit is complete rubbish. 
Now a question for the press.  Has anyone ever died in their industry.  Crushed in an old style printing press?
Was that valuable asset then scrapped?

It is totally stupid. What happened that morning had nothing to do with National Express, so what are they supposed to do, scrap a nearly new bus just to satisfy people. It was obvious it couldn't continue to be used at Pensnett, so it had to move, so it was refurbished and had it reg and fleet number change to avoid distress to everyone concerned in the sad events.

It leads to the question, does NE have to get rid of every bus involved in an accident due to the fact it may cause distress. Nobody at PE is moaning about 4135 due to its sad past.

Similarly when B10B 1378 was re-built & transferred from WN to WA after a fatal accident which killed the actual bus driver if I remember correctly?

There will be many buses still in service at the same garage that were involved in various fatal accidents that people are non the wiser about....

[Roy]

In 1865, Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in Ford's Theatre, Washington.  The theatre is now preserved as a national monument.

In 2006, a student was stabbed to death on board a Virgin CrossCountry service from Glasgow to Paignton.  The unit was a Class 221 Voyager and was never renumbered or withdrawn and has operated services ever since.

Every day, somebody commits suicide by jumping in front of a train.  I was a passenger on a train which was involved in such an incident in the 1980's.  I will not reveal the number but the leading power car is now one of the CrossCountry ten.  I regularly travel behind that power car and never feel outraged that I have to do so.

In all cases, the train/bus/theatre was not responsible for the outrage it was involved in.  The responsibility lies with the perpetrator of the crime, not with the location of that crime.

[andy]

What a ridiculous position for these staff to take ( if it is actually the case that they have) and absurd that this article can be published.  The staff should also be ashamed of themselves for uttering the words 'Death Bus', how disrespectful.

As somebody else has said what about the numerous trains in the system that have been involved in incidents? I was on one earlier this year in Crawley that somebody went under, we were stuck there for 2 and a half hours. Should Southern immediately scrap the whole unit?

In the 90's at Tamworth garage a passenger collapsed and died on Olympian 1913 on the front lower saloon seats exiting the Bull Ring Bus Station. The bus was retrimmed shortly afterwards and went on to run out of Tamworth for a couple more years. Shortly afterwards Olympian 1919 was involved in a rear end shunt with a WMT Metrobus in High Street Birmingham, tragically trapping and killing a female pedestrian. Once released by VOSA and the Police, the vehicle was repaired and immediately reallocated to Crewe where it operated for years. The decision was taken because the driver involved was not dismissed and eventually returned to work and clearly could not have driven the bus again.

The problem here is too much media. In those days nowhere near as many people would have been aware of what had happened on this bus. I guess the only other option NX had was to shift it up to Scotland but no doubt the staff there would eventually have heard all the same stories.

[Liberator9]

Rode that bus on the 76E in September; they certainly had done more than a "hose down" as it smelt of new paint, seats etc. It was just like any other Enviro at the depot and to the public eye, they would never know. Tragic story though and has been said, what was NX meant to do with the bus.

[Kevin_Brum12]

Just seen this, I'd have thought drivers would have known to begin with

http://m.travel.aol.co.uk/2013/11/05/bus-drivers-outraged-using-vehicle-teen-stabbed-death-birmingham/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cukt3%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D220818

Assuming the invididuals concerned are NXWM staff, they have shown extra poor judgment and would, I reckon be looking at disciplinary action and summary dismissal.

All bus operators will have disciplinary and conduct policies and one of those would cover interaction with the media.   Talking to an external media organisation such as the Caters Agency about company business without authorisation from your employer is bad enough.  Biting the hand that feeds you, then rubbing the good name of NXWM through the mud is gross misconduct.   I am pretty sure even the best employment lawyer and union rep would struggle to keep the member of staff concerned in a job.

Tony I will be pretty sure that an investigation will be launched by NXWM management in an attempt to identify the staff member(s), and the matter will be mentioned to all staff across the business in briefings with a reminder of what the policies allow and do not allow and an explanation of what the consequences are for breaching the policy (which should be blindingly obvious).

The article also continues the "buses are unsafe" theme that some sections of the media (and indeed some politicians in Birmingham) have whipped up over the years.   Let us not forget that one national newspaper, rather than reporting on the hunt for Simelane and giving information out that would have helped West Midlands Police following the appalling incident decided to trawl through Christinas Twitter feed.   Another local radio station decided to have a phone in asking callers if they'd ever felt unsafe on a bus -  just  hours after the incident whilst the forensic officers were still at Hagley Road.  (It was a debate to have, but the timing was tasteless and insensitive.  It should have happened on another day.)  The reality is that Simelane killed Christina Edkins on the bus, but if the mental health services had made the correct interventions given his history it is unlikely he would have been there.   (There is an investigation taking place at present.)

The reality is that millions of journeys are made each year on public transport without incident, and the vast majority of passengers are law abiding and respectful of others.   A minority of individuals behave in a criminal manner to users, to staff and to property.   The West Midlands has made major strides in dealing with crime and anti-social behaviour and I think it is fair to say things are much better now than they were 10 years ago, and the message is beginning to get out that crime on the buses is no longer being tolerated.   And Simelane was spotted and apprehended by a PCSO from the Safer Travel team.

[Stu]

Kevin, I couldn't have put it better myself.

There are so many things wrong with this article.

First of all, I've never heard of Caters News, so don't see them as a reliable source of news.

Secondly, the article appears on AOL, which I also don't use as a regular reliable source of news.

Thirdly, their facts are wholly inaccurate.

The 23-year-old killer, from Walsall, West Mids, was on the Number 9 bus for two-and-a-half hours before he stalked the teenager and attacked.

I don't know how long he was on the bus for, but certainly the true facts reported in the press was that the victim had only been on the bus a few minutes, so was certainly not 'stalked'.

The bus in question has also already been back in service for several months since the incident in question, with seemingly no complaints being raised so far.

I do appreciate that Tony has requested no further discussion of this matter previously, but just want to voice my opinions over the questionable nature of this article, which comes across to me as some disgruntled former NX bus employee with an axe to grind. That too is my own personal opinion, it's just how I see it.

[Tony]

Caters News agency is a Birmingham Based agency that you can sell your story to for them to Syndicate.
http://www.catersnews.com/index.php
Note the click here to sell your story!
Presumably some disgruntled driver or ex Driver thought it would be clever to try and make some money

[Kevin_Brum12]

Caters News agency is a Birmingham Based agency that you can sell your story to for them to Syndicate.
http://www.catersnews.com/index.php
Note the click here to sell your story!
Presumably some disgruntled driver or ex Driver thought it would be clever to try and make some money

...and if he is a driver he will probably soon be an ex one.    If he had any scruples perhaps he would donate the money he's made to the charity set up in Christinas memory, or one tackling Mental Health, then hand in his resignation.

We shall see if the story makes the national papers tomorrow with the OTT writing one or two publications employ.