Rotala Management - Questions & Answers

[winston]

I think the general consensus from peoples observations & comments on the forum, is that they see the Diamond fleets at Tividale particularly & by the sounds of it also Kidderminster are made up of too higher proportion of midibuses i.e. MPD's & Solo's with little or no spare carrying capacity to cater for any growth at busy times. Both depots would appear to be in need of additional 10.6M Darts or full size single deckers.

Obviously the number of used nearly new full size single deckers available on the secondhand market is limited

[PM]

Some of the solos moved in though are the same size as the darts first had there-ie the very long solos. I agree that more darts are needed there but can't see where they would come from as wessex doesn't really have many long darts in service and tividale/long acre/redditch need the ones that they have. Difficult one as whenever I've visited Kidderminster, MPDs and solos seemed fine.

[StourportSam]

Some of the solos moved in though are the same size as the darts first had there-ie the very long solos. I agree that more darts are needed there but can't see where they would come from as wessex doesn't really have many long darts in service and tividale/long acre/redditch need the ones that they have. Difficult one as whenever I've visited Kidderminster, MPDs and solos seemed fine.

Did you travel off peak in Kidderminster by any chance!!!??? And what routes?
First has a lot of large lances and darts - no mpds. It could be suggested however, that larger buses on lesser used routes contributed to the loss making reason to sell to Rotala.

[PM]

Some of the solos moved in though are the same size as the darts first had there-ie the very long solos. I agree that more darts are needed there but can't see where they would come from as wessex doesn't really have many long darts in service and tividale/long acre/redditch need the ones that they have. Difficult one as whenever I've visited Kidderminster, MPDs and solos seemed fine.

Did you travel off peak in Kidderminster by any chance!!!??? And what routes?
First has a lot of large lances and darts - no mpds. It could be suggested however, that larger buses on lesser used routes contributed to the loss making reason to sell to Rotala.

Yeah, I was gonna say it was off peak though 9:30 could be considered sort of like a peak with all the OAP passes. That is true-first seemed to have a blanket approach of long single decks in redditch and kidderminster. Hopefully, by using newer more fuel efficient buses, rotala have managed to cut costs and make a profit there. I would like to see, certainly on the X3, b7rles as they would be better on these longer routes. Then, darts could be used on some well-used routes and then some solos and MPDs on less popular routes, or tendered routes such as the 133. They could then be used as peak time extras. It would seem a waste to have bigger buses travelling round kidderminster all day. Maybe a short term solution would be upping the frequency which first destroyed there and this would also win custom back from Whittles. Kidderminster managed with minibuses a few years ago. The frequencies have to be right though...

[Cedric]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

They weren't building 'L' registration Solos. If you are referring to 20827 http://wmbusphotos.com/centralConnect/20827.html It was new in 2004, after anything First ever operated in Kidderminster. See the history of the vehicle on that page and have a look who it was new to and you will see where the registration comes from

tony I see when it was new   worked out the first owner was in Scotland, but  never heard of  the place of the second owner comes from   ?
I know I have said before  about  older vehicles replacing newer diamond vehicles . but  really  thinking about  as long as a bus turns up  to  run the service  the age does not matter as long as it goes and is clean and tidy inside  age  does not really matter  after all if it gets you to where you are going that's is the main thing.  and may I say  there are more people using the buses since diamond took over.

[Tony]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

They weren't building 'L' registration Solos. If you are referring to 20827 http://wmbusphotos.com/centralConnect/20827.html It was new in 2004, after anything First ever operated in Kidderminster. See the history of the vehicle on that page and have a look who it was new to and you will see where the registration comes from

tony I see when it was new   worked out the first owner was in Scotland, but  never heard of  the place of the second owner comes from   ? cedric

The company name is a big clue

[Cedric]

Greece? or spain ? aryshire

[tank90]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

They weren't building 'L' registration Solos. If you are referring to 20827 http://wmbusphotos.com/centralConnect/20827.html It was new in 2004, after anything First ever operated in Kidderminster. See the history of the vehicle on that page and have a look who it was new to and you will see where the registration comes from

tony I see when it was new   worked out the first owner was in Scotland, but  never heard of  the place of the second owner comes from   ? cedric

The company name is a big clue

Yes but Patna is in India not East Ayrshire tho Tony, Or is there another Patna that's in snowie Scotland?

[winston]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

They weren't building 'L' registration Solos. If you are referring to 20827 http://wmbusphotos.com/centralConnect/20827.html It was new in 2004, after anything First ever operated in Kidderminster. See the history of the vehicle on that page and have a look who it was new to and you will see where the registration comes from

tony I see when it was new   worked out the first owner was in Scotland, but  never heard of  the place of the second owner comes from   ? cedric

The company name is a big clue

Yes but Patna is in India not East Ayrshire tho Tony, Or is there another Patna that's in snowie Scotland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patna,_East_Ayrshire

[PM]

Thanks for your replies Simon.

I was just wondering about when you think the network changes in Redditch and Kidderminster will be decided and implemented. Will they potentially be delayed until after the consultation on the WCC funding cuts, as several diamond services are impacted by that.

Many Thanks

Peter

[Simon Dunn]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Thank you for your reply Simon. On reflection you have jogged my memory as to the lances and P reg darts from First Diamond have ousted. I was thinking particularly of 20004, 20010, 20810, 20811, 20841 and 20844 which have recently departed for Preston and Wessex to seemingly be replaced by the likes of 20503, 20504, 20469, 20652-8, 20361, 30445, etc. I understand some of these vehicles came from Redditch after transferring the 133 et al to Kidderminster but still that seems a retrograde step in my opinion.

30860 is allocated to Kidderminster, but I hardly seem to see it - even when the depot is closed and full on a Sunday. Is there any reason for this please?

Finally, could you confirm for me if I am right in thinking R455 CCV and S405 JUA have been withdrawn and are unlikely to see further use with Rotala?

Sam,

I am home now, and out for a couple of days.  So I am struggling to look at the specific type registration number of vehicles you are referring to.  Some of the buses that should be in Kidderminster are in Redditch and vice versa.  Over this weekend, this will be changed.  R455CCV - we are looking to sell.  S405JUA, there is an engine fault which we are looking to repair.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

Cedric,

I am not looking to have an argument, and like any business we need to balance the books otherwise the business will not be profitable.  We have tried to undertake a gradual fleet replacement.  We have chosen to remove all the m/p reg buses and we have tried to use what we have which is newer better.  At the same time we have acquired some 2006 Long Solo's, a pair of 2009 MAN Centro's and moved from Redditch a Volvo B7RLE.

From our perspective, we have now assessed the response to our network review and the Commercial team are meeting on Friday to discuss the results.


Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Thanks for your replies Simon.

I was just wondering about when you think the network changes in Redditch and Kidderminster will be decided and implemented. Will they potentially be delayed until after the consultation on the WCC funding cuts, as several diamond services are impacted by that.

Many Thanks

Peter

Peter

I will know more on Friday, but I don't expect the funding cuts to impact on the network review.




Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Some of the solos moved in though are the same size as the darts first had there-ie the very long solos. I agree that more darts are needed there but can't see where they would come from as wessex doesn't really have many long darts in service and tividale/long acre/redditch need the ones that they have. Difficult one as whenever I've visited Kidderminster, MPDs and solos seemed fine.

Did you travel off peak in Kidderminster by any chance!!!??? And what routes?
First has a lot of large lances and darts - no mpds. It could be suggested however, that larger buses on lesser used routes contributed to the loss making reason to sell to Rotala.

I agree we need to address the size of bus issue, and we accept we don't have enough.  However, part of the problem is the way the buses are scheduled which we will look to deal with as part of the network review. 



Simon

[nitromatt1]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt