Rotala Management - Questions & Answers

[PM]

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Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

We do not have a large requirement for Double deckers.  This year we have had to replace 1 and acquire an additional decker for Avonmouth.  We offered the 10 plates as an alternative to new.  In the end Ross wanted more than I thought they were worth, and the client wanted new.  Hence why we currently have 2 demo's from Volvo, until the new are delivered.

So you have 2 new Omnicity double deckers on order for Avonmouth then, are these from stock? As I though Scania have stopped making them unless they received a large fleet order

One thing I've wondered, is why New Zealand operators are so keen to take on the MCV Evolutions if the build quality isn't up to scratch, do you have an any inklings?

I was wondering the same Winston and also about the fact that arent scania omni-buses known for very poor build quality if nxwm's omnilinks are anything to go by?

A good buy in my view would be the citaro currently at ensignbus-a single door one as well-would be perfect at preston to fit with the citaro there to replace the sold esteem or even at diamond

[winston]

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Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

We do not have a large requirement for Double deckers.  This year we have had to replace 1 and acquire an additional decker for Avonmouth.  We offered the 10 plates as an alternative to new.  In the end Ross wanted more than I thought they were worth, and the client wanted new.  Hence why we currently have 2 demo's from Volvo, until the new are delivered.

So you have 2 new Omnicity double deckers on order for Avonmouth then, are these from stock? As I though Scania have stopped making them unless they received a large fleet order

One thing I've wondered, is why New Zealand operators are so keen to take on the MCV Evolutions if the build quality isn't up to scratch, do you have an any inklings?

I was wondering the same Winston and also about the fact that arent scania omni-buses known for very poor build quality if nxwm's omnilinks are anything to go by?

A good buy in my view would be the citaro currently at ensignbus-a single door one as well-would be perfect at preston to fit with the citaro there to replace the sold esteem or even at diamond

Yes that 04 plate Citaro may be an option for Long Acre, it must be surplus to requirements at Western Greyhound now FDC have taken over the Truro Park & Ride. Or it has been traded in against the Y/51-reg Tridents/ALX400's that Ensign are supplying to WG ex Stagecoach London

[PM]

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Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

We do not have a large requirement for Double deckers.  This year we have had to replace 1 and acquire an additional decker for Avonmouth.  We offered the 10 plates as an alternative to new.  In the end Ross wanted more than I thought they were worth, and the client wanted new.  Hence why we currently have 2 demo's from Volvo, until the new are delivered.

So you have 2 new Omnicity double deckers on order for Avonmouth then, are these from stock? As I though Scania have stopped making them unless they received a large fleet order

One thing I've wondered, is why New Zealand operators are so keen to take on the MCV Evolutions if the build quality isn't up to scratch, do you have an any inklings?

I was wondering the same Winston and also about the fact that arent scania omni-buses known for very poor build quality if nxwm's omnilinks are anything to go by?

A good buy in my view would be the citaro currently at ensignbus-a single door one as well-would be perfect at preston to fit with the citaro there to replace the sold esteem or even at diamond

Yes that 04 plate Citaro may be an option for Long Acre, it must be surplus to requirements at Western Greyhound now FDC have taken over the Truro Park & Ride. Or it has been traded in against the Y/51-reg Tridents/ALX400's that Ensign are supplying to WG ex Stagecoach London

Think its ex park and ride and looks a decent buy obviously dependant on price-I still think the dual door ex yourbus citaros would be good somehwere-shame they cant be used on student services

[ge321321]

Hi Simon,

How much do you want for this?

http://search.knightfrank.co.uk/cpd184834

[winston]

Hi Simon,

How much do you want for this?

http://search.knightfrank.co.uk/cpd184834

Hmmmmm,

Didn't see that one coming.......  that is obviously the longer term plan for Long Acre Simon previously mentioned ;)

Maybe Long Acre would be of interest to NX as a new depot to house the current allocation at BY and offer some additional capacity? Double deckers could then also be operated from LA and keep BY as NXWM HQ and use the current depot building for storing single deckers with the highest book values from the reserve fleet, especially once LH is eventually sold. I believe this was originally the intention prior to LH closing

[Simon Dunn]

Thanks for your replies Simon-just a couple more questions
1) Is R610YCR still in service or not-has it been withdrawn yet?
2)Do you plan to sell AE10CSF soon seeing as others of the type have gone and it is a one off in the WMids?
3)Do you plan to repaint KX57OVV soon or concentrate the MAN/centro type at any one depot as opposed to them being everywhere but kidderminster?
4) Which do you prefer-a plaxton centro or a wright eclipse? Just out of interest
5) What are your "favourite" buses run by diamond-ie best from an operational perspective, most reliable, cheapest to run, best value etc
6) Could rotala bring out a west midlands guide like the ones for redditch and kidderminster like arriva has done to raise awareness of the diamond network?

Thanks again  :)

1.  It is still in service at present, but is due for imminent withdrawel
2.  We have an offer from New Zealand, which we are considering.
3.  No plan at present.
4.  Wright Eclipse.
5. 

Mercedes Engine, Optare Solo up to 9.5m
Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse - 12m.
Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

6.  it is something we should do.  However, until the network is stable this is difficult

Thanks for all your replies again Simon!

Interesting to hear about CSF potentially going to new zealand as well soon and also interesting that you prefer eclipses over centros-sorry if it seemed a weird question but I was just intrigued as rotala have bought both types so can compare them directly. Personally, I prefer centros in terms of appearance and I like the royale ones-so do passengers as people often say about how its a posh bus when they pop up on unfamiliar routes. I understand your point about a network guide entirely-I guess its pointless to spend money on a quickly outdated guide.  Also interesting about your favourite buses-I too like eclipse gemini's, b7rles, but also MAN/centros, MAN/evolutions and dart slfs.

Where abouts is R610YCR at the moment as I havent been able to find it anywhere for ages. I imagine its at kidderminster and when is it coming off service?

Thanks again

The build quality on an eclipse is far superior to that of a Centro.

From memory I believe R610YCR is in Kidderminster and the plan is to remove and a number of other vehicles from Redditch and Kidderminster when the V registration darts from Wessex enter service/New Streetlites and Deckers are removed

That is interesting about build quality and thanks for the info about YCR-will try to get across to kidderminster soon and I imagine the buses leaving redditch soon will be the deckers, T418MNH?, old MPDs, S405JUA and R455CCV? Am I right or miles off?!

Thanks again

At the moment we have too many spares in Redditch.  Once, we get this better under control we should not need any of the ex Diamond darts which have been transferred in

[Simon Dunn]

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Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

Scania are more thirsty about 7 mile to the gallon, Volvo and ADL are lot better on fuel you be look around 10 + miles to the gallon

We are not a large operator of Double decks.  However, from our experience I would say the Scania double deck is better than the Volvo double deck

Hi Simon

I talking about more on the lines off single decker such as  OmniLink there are more thirsty vs B7's and E200 's but i not sure on double decker

From our experience of the Scania products we operate at Avonmouth.  The single deck product is not as good as the B7 or E200 on fuel.  That being said we do not operate any Long E200 at Avonmouth, nor on a similar type of route.  In addition the E200 is a light weight product, and not comparable to a B7 or Scania.

[Simon Dunn]

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Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

We do not have a large requirement for Double deckers.  This year we have had to replace 1 and acquire an additional decker for Avonmouth.  We offered the 10 plates as an alternative to new.  In the end Ross wanted more than I thought they were worth, and the client wanted new.  Hence why we currently have 2 demo's from Volvo, until the new are delivered.

So you have 2 new Omnicity double deckers on order for Avonmouth then, are these from stock? As I though Scania have stopped making them unless they received a large fleet order

One thing I've wondered, is why New Zealand operators are so keen to take on the MCV Evolutions if the build quality isn't up to scratch, do you have an any inklings?

We have 2 Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 deckers on order for Avonmouth.  These are not from stock, they are new build.

I am not an expert on the requirements for buses for New Zealand.  However, my understanding is that there are vehicle dimension restrictions.  My understanding is that the MCV is 2.5m wide, were as most other products are 2.55 m wide.  I believe the New Zealand law allows for a maximum of 2.5m (From memory I believe this is what ours used to be until about 1991). 

The MCV body is not badly built.  We sold the 23 x MAN MCV, due to the chassis and aftermarket support. 

[Simon Dunn]

.
Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

We do not have a large requirement for Double deckers.  This year we have had to replace 1 and acquire an additional decker for Avonmouth.  We offered the 10 plates as an alternative to new.  In the end Ross wanted more than I thought they were worth, and the client wanted new.  Hence why we currently have 2 demo's from Volvo, until the new are delivered.

So you have 2 new Omnicity double deckers on order for Avonmouth then, are these from stock? As I though Scania have stopped making them unless they received a large fleet order

One thing I've wondered, is why New Zealand operators are so keen to take on the MCV Evolutions if the build quality isn't up to scratch, do you have an any inklings?

I was wondering the same Winston and also about the fact that arent scania omni-buses known for very poor build quality if nxwm's omnilinks are anything to go by?

A good buy in my view would be the citaro currently at ensignbus-a single door one as well-would be perfect at preston to fit with the citaro there to replace the sold esteem or even at diamond

The New Citaro is a good product.  We had a number of pre 2005 Citaro's which we sold, and couldn't wait to get out of. 

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

How much do you want for this?

http://search.knightfrank.co.uk/cpd184834

Following our acquisition of Redditch and Kidderminster, some of the work operated from Long Acre is now nearly as Close from Redditch.  This provides the opportunity to reassess our depot Footprint, and Knight Frank are the acting agents for both Long Acre and Shady Lane (We have a 40+ year lease). 

We have not made a firm decision as yet, but we are considering our options and for the right offer would consider Sale of all, Sublet either all or part.

In terms of a Sale Price, the agent is quoting £2.75 million.

[winston]

We have 2 Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 deckers on order for Avonmouth.  These are not from stock, they are new build.

I am not an expert on the requirements for buses for New Zealand.  However, my understanding is that there are vehicle dimension restrictions.  My understanding is that the MCV is 2.5m wide, were as most other products are 2.55 m wide.  I believe the New Zealand law allows for a maximum of 2.5m (From memory I believe this is what ours used to be until about 1991). 

The MCV body is not badly built.  We sold the 23 x MAN MCV, due to the chassis and aftermarket support.

Apologies Simon, I must have misunderstood your previous reply, I wrongly read it that new Scania Omnicity double deckers had been ordered.....

[winston]

Hi Simon,

How much do you want for this?

http://search.knightfrank.co.uk/cpd184834

Following our acquisition of Redditch and Kidderminster, some of the work operated from Long Acre is now nearly as Close from Redditch.  This provides the opportunity to reassess our depot Footprint, and Knight Frank are the acting agents for both Long Acre and Shady Lane (We have a 40+ year lease). 

We have not made a firm decision as yet, but we are considering our options and for the right offer would consider Sale of all, Sublet either all or part.

In terms of a Sale Price, the agent is quoting £2.75 million.

Simon,

It obviously makes good business sense to vacate and sell Long Acre if sufficient work can't be found in the short/medium term to bolster the allocation and fill it to its full potential. In doing so subsequently it will reduce Rotala Plc/Diamond's overheads going forward..... Obviously disposing of an un-required asset such as Shady Lane makes perfect sense, the proceeds of any sales can then be re-injection back in to the business or used to pay down some of Rotala Plc debt

Is the £2.75 Million for both properties I take it?

Would Rotala Plc HQ have to find a new head office somewhere or could this function be moved in to Tividale in the event of Long Acre being sold or sub-let?

[the trainbasher]

Hi Simon,

One thing I've noticed whilst browsing the diamond site is that it does not contain any of the network changes that have been made since the network map was made in Oct 2012.

Is there any plans for marketing to change it and also would mini network maps (eg Redditch, Kidderminster, the Black Country) work on there as a way for folks in those areas to see specific routes without some of the restrictions the big network map has?

[PM]

Thanks for your replies Simon-just a couple more questions
1) Is R610YCR still in service or not-has it been withdrawn yet?
2)Do you plan to sell AE10CSF soon seeing as others of the type have gone and it is a one off in the WMids?
3)Do you plan to repaint KX57OVV soon or concentrate the MAN/centro type at any one depot as opposed to them being everywhere but kidderminster?
4) Which do you prefer-a plaxton centro or a wright eclipse? Just out of interest
5) What are your "favourite" buses run by diamond-ie best from an operational perspective, most reliable, cheapest to run, best value etc
6) Could rotala bring out a west midlands guide like the ones for redditch and kidderminster like arriva has done to raise awareness of the diamond network?

Thanks again  :)

1.  It is still in service at present, but is due for imminent withdrawel
2.  We have an offer from New Zealand, which we are considering.
3.  No plan at present.
4.  Wright Eclipse.
5. 

Mercedes Engine, Optare Solo up to 9.5m
Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse - 12m.
Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

6.  it is something we should do.  However, until the network is stable this is difficult

Thanks for all your replies again Simon!

Interesting to hear about CSF potentially going to new zealand as well soon and also interesting that you prefer eclipses over centros-sorry if it seemed a weird question but I was just intrigued as rotala have bought both types so can compare them directly. Personally, I prefer centros in terms of appearance and I like the royale ones-so do passengers as people often say about how its a posh bus when they pop up on unfamiliar routes. I understand your point about a network guide entirely-I guess its pointless to spend money on a quickly outdated guide.  Also interesting about your favourite buses-I too like eclipse gemini's, b7rles, but also MAN/centros, MAN/evolutions and dart slfs.

Where abouts is R610YCR at the moment as I havent been able to find it anywhere for ages. I imagine its at kidderminster and when is it coming off service?

Thanks again

The build quality on an eclipse is far superior to that of a Centro.

From memory I believe R610YCR is in Kidderminster and the plan is to remove and a number of other vehicles from Redditch and Kidderminster when the V registration darts from Wessex enter service/New Streetlites and Deckers are removed

That is interesting about build quality and thanks for the info about YCR-will try to get across to kidderminster soon and I imagine the buses leaving redditch soon will be the deckers, T418MNH?, old MPDs, S405JUA and R455CCV? Am I right or miles off?!

Thanks again

At the moment we have too many spares in Redditch.  Once, we get this better under control we should not need any of the ex Diamond darts which have been transferred in

Thanks Simon-will these be going back to tividale soon as there as some routes there that need extra capacity and larger buses on the 142 at the moment might be an idea due to the holdups buses are getting very busy-know this isnt diamonds fault but might be an idea or maybe reduce the fares for a bit like in evesham as I overheard people talking about not catching it any more and that might be a way of keeping more custom

[PM]

.
Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Gemini/ Scania OmniDeck (not currently available due to not being whole type approved) - Double Deck

Simon,

I was surprised that the Scania Omnideck featured our your favorites list, are those not quite so thirsty on fuel? It's a pity Ross @ Ensign wouldn't accept your offer on the 10 plate for sale there

We do not have a large requirement for Double deckers.  This year we have had to replace 1 and acquire an additional decker for Avonmouth.  We offered the 10 plates as an alternative to new.  In the end Ross wanted more than I thought they were worth, and the client wanted new.  Hence why we currently have 2 demo's from Volvo, until the new are delivered.

So you have 2 new Omnicity double deckers on order for Avonmouth then, are these from stock? As I though Scania have stopped making them unless they received a large fleet order

One thing I've wondered, is why New Zealand operators are so keen to take on the MCV Evolutions if the build quality isn't up to scratch, do you have an any inklings?

We have 2 Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 deckers on order for Avonmouth.  These are not from stock, they are new build.

I am not an expert on the requirements for buses for New Zealand.  However, my understanding is that there are vehicle dimension restrictions.  My understanding is that the MCV is 2.5m wide, were as most other products are 2.55 m wide.  I believe the New Zealand law allows for a maximum of 2.5m (From memory I believe this is what ours used to be until about 1991). 

The MCV body is not badly built.  We sold the 23 x MAN MCV, due to the chassis and aftermarket support.

Good that more new buses are on order and interesting about the MCVs thought they looked narrower than say a b7rle and I liked the MCVs to be honest but the drivers didnt